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Help Needed on this AGS0 Princess Cut

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Hi guys,

I am totally new to this diamond shopping thing, but I have been doing a lot of homework thanks to all your help here on Pricescope. Thanks! :D

I have been looking around for an AGS0 Princess cut diamond online, and finally found one that fits what I am looking for. From what I have read, the dimensions of this diamond is pretty good. The AGA Cut Class Tool rated it as an 1A overall. However, the vendor only rated this diamond as a "good" cut, so that got me worried.

Do you guys have any idea why it would be like that? Did I miss something??

Here's the AGS report. The price is listed as ~$8800. Does that sound right?

Cut Grade: Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 2.5 (I)
Clarity Grade: AGS 3 (VS1)
Fluorescence: Negligible
Table: 67.9%
Crown Angle: 40.9
Crown Height: 11.7%
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Pavilion Angle: 40.3
Pavilion Depth: 60.0%
Total Depth: 74.4%
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
pay no attention to the vendor applied cut label...those are just based on table/depth often and not on performance like AGS cut grade. AGS0 cut grade should ensure a nice princess cut.
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Ok, that made me feel better. Thanks!

I was also concerned at the color I. I was originally thinking of getting something in the F to H range, but I have been told that you can't really tell the difference between that and a diamond with a color I after it's sitting on a platinum setting. Is that right?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Princesses show more color than rounds, so you may see some tint with an I (or you may not, depending on how sensitive you are to differences in color). The tint will be most apparent from a side view. The best thing to do would be to try to see some ideal cut princesses in person to see what your color preferences are. If you do go to a store, make sure to look at ideal cuts (Jared's carries AGS0) and look at them in different lighting.

Or, depending on this vendor's return policy, you could always get the diamond shipped out to you and see if you like it.


ETA is this diamond a local store or online? price is higher than what I am seeing online but buying locally has its advantages (one of which being that you can check out the color!)
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
ETA is this diamond a local store or online? price is higher than what I am seeing online but buying locally has its advantages (one of which being that you can check out the color!)

This is online. Oh by the way, this is a 1.507 carat princess cut. I should've mentioned that earlier. I also feel like this is a little more expensive than I thought, but then I haven't been able to find too many AGS0 diamonds with a table under 68%. I read that princess cut diamonds that are under 68% are more "ideal". I am not sure if that's true or not.

Do you have any suggestions on where I can find more selections on these AGS0 princess cuts? Thanks for all your help, SLG47!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,385
ASET simulation looks fine. One reason some prefer a high crown and small table on a princess is to permit more coloured light return, which the smaller facets are predisposed against.

As slg said - colour depends on your eyes and your preferences. Price sounds fine too - I'm not seeing much in the way of branded princesses or AGS0s in that size to compare with though!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
oh, for some reason I thought it was a 1.2 carat?
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
I feel like the price range for princess cuts around 1.5 carats fluctuate so much. I have seen some in the high 7000s to some even 12-13000!

There's another comparable princess cut diamond that I was looking at. The price and the weight of the two diamonds (1.5 carats and about $8800) are essentially identical. The difference is that this diamond is color G, VS2, and a AGS 1 in cut (1 being symmetry). Do you guys think that giving up the 1 point in symmetry is worth the better color?
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
slg47|1305429258|2922113 said:
oh, for some reason I thought it was a 1.2 carat?

Oh no, 1.507 carats. Does that make this diamond a good deal now? :$$):
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,385
ags0|1305429445|2922114 said:
I feel like the price range for princess cuts around 1.5 carats fluctuate so much. I have seen some in the high 7000s to some even 12-13000!

There's another comparable princess cut diamond that I was looking at. The price and the weight of the two diamonds (1.5 carats and about $8800) are essentially identical. The difference is that this diamond is color G, VS2, and a AGS 1 in cut (1 being symmetry). Do you guys think that giving up the 1 point in symmetry is worth the better color?

Do you have the report for this one?

AGS is grading facet meet symmetry, not optical symmetry (of the patterning of light/dark you see when you look at the stone) - the two don't necessarily correlate, oddly enough - you can in fact have high optical symmetry in a stone w/ less than top grade facet meet symmetry, though it's rarer than vice versa. AGS1s dinged for pol/sym can be fantastic finds - or sometimes not, depends on the stone 8)
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Yssie|1305430034|2922121 said:
ags0|1305429445|2922114 said:
I feel like the price range for princess cuts around 1.5 carats fluctuate so much. I have seen some in the high 7000s to some even 12-13000!

There's another comparable princess cut diamond that I was looking at. The price and the weight of the two diamonds (1.5 carats and about $8800) are essentially identical. The difference is that this diamond is color G, VS2, and a AGS 1 in cut (1 being symmetry). Do you guys think that giving up the 1 point in symmetry is worth the better color?

Do you have the report for this one?

AGS is grading facet meet symmetry, not optical symmetry (the patterning of light/dark you see when you look at the stone) - the two don't necessarily correlate, oddly enough. AGS1s dinged for pol/sym can be fantastic finds - or sometimes not, depends on the stone 8)

Sorry, should've included that in the last reply. Here's the report: AGS 1 report

Here are more photos:
ASET
Ideal Scope
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
The simulated ASET looks very nice. Looks like it's going to be a gorgeous stone. I think I color is one of the best kept secrets among diamonds. I can't tell the difference between my I and my SIL's F princess when looking at them face-up (I've compared them side by side). I can only see a slight tint from the side, and if that bothers you, you can get a setting that covers most of the side view. H color was substantially more expensive for the same size and clarity, so I think I got a pretty sweet deal.
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
jstarfireb|1305430420|2922124 said:
The simulated ASET looks very nice. Looks like it's going to be a gorgeous stone. I think I color is one of the best kept secrets among diamonds. I can't tell the difference between my I and my SIL's F princess when looking at them face-up (I've compared them side by side). I can only see a slight tint from the side, and if that bothers you, you can get a setting that covers most of the side view. H color was substantially more expensive for the same size and clarity, so I think I got a pretty sweet deal.

That's exactly what my friend told me. He bought a color F diamond and thought that he should've gotten an I instead since it cost so much more. I think I will go to a store and look at the difference some time next week.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
22,385
The simulated ASET for the AGS0 is 'superior' to that of the AGS1 - or the actual ASET pic, but we don't know about scanning error, etc. Both stones look like they'd be pretty IRL - I agree that going in-person to compare them and let your eyes make the call is the best idea!
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Yssie|1305431425|2922133 said:
The simulated ASET for the AGS0 is 'superior' to that of the AGS1 - or the actual ASET pic, but we don't know about scanning error, etc. Both stones look like they'd be pretty IRL - I agree that going in-person to compare them and let your eyes make the call is the best idea!

In most cases, can you realistically tell the difference between an AGS0 and an AGS1 with the naked eye? Both sets of these pictures look just about the same to me, but I am a total newbie at this so I don't trust my own judgement. ;-)
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
22,385
ags0|1305432043|2922140 said:
Yssie|1305431425|2922133 said:
The simulated ASET for the AGS0 is 'superior' to that of the AGS1 - or the actual ASET pic, but we don't know about scanning error, etc. Both stones look like they'd be pretty IRL - I agree that going in-person to compare them and let your eyes make the call is the best idea!

In most cases, can you realistically tell the difference between an AGS0 and an AGS1 with the naked eye? Both sets of these pictures look just about the same to me, but I am a total newbie at this so I don't trust my own judgement. ;-)

It really does depend - on what the differences are between those specific stones, on your eyesight, and on what you personally like to see - there are PSers who actively prefer stones that show more green and than red under the ASET scope, or more contrast and don't mind if more of it is due to light escape through the pavilion ("leakage" on here), which is against conventional wisdom - hence the quotes around 'superior', that's me covering my backside in case you turn out to be one of them ;))

All our scopes and scans and numbers can tell you what the stone is doing, but nothing but your eyes can tell you if you like what you're seeing. I think I would prefer #1, assuming the scan isn't hiding something significant. But I am not you. The technology can help you by narrowing down your list to stones with different personalities that you're likely to find pleasing - like these two IMO, and then if you use your eyes to make the final call between them you will *know* with certainty that you'll love what you're buying :))
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Yssie|1305432614|2922146 said:
ags0|1305432043|2922140 said:
Yssie|1305431425|2922133 said:
The simulated ASET for the AGS0 is 'superior' to that of the AGS1 - or the actual ASET pic, but we don't know about scanning error, etc. Both stones look like they'd be pretty IRL - I agree that going in-person to compare them and let your eyes make the call is the best idea!

In most cases, can you realistically tell the difference between an AGS0 and an AGS1 with the naked eye? Both sets of these pictures look just about the same to me, but I am a total newbie at this so I don't trust my own judgement. ;-)

It really does depend - on what the differences are between those specific stones, on your eyesight, and on what you personally like to see - there are PSers who actively prefer stones that show more green and than red under the ASET scope, or more contrast and don't mind if more of it is due to light escape, which is against conventional wisdom - hence the quotes around 'superior', that's me covering my backside in case you turn out to be one of them ;))

All our scopes and scans and numbers can tell you what the stone is doing, but nothing but your eyes can tell you if you like what you're seeing. The technology can help you by narrowing down your list to stones with different personalities that you're likely to find pleasing - like these two IMO, and then if you use your eyes to make the final call between them you will *know* with certainty that you'll love what you're buying :))

Thanks for all your help, Yssie! This has been very helpful.

I also noticed that GIA rated princess cut diamonds are generally cheaper than AGS0. This is most likely because GIA doesn't really grade the cut quality in princess cuts. I was originally going to just stick with AGS0 diamonds since AGS grades princess cuts. I am afraid that the diamond will turn out to be a poor cut, even if the vendor says that it's "ideal". Do you guys think that I should look at GIA princesses anyway?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,385
ags0|1305433623|2922150 said:
I also noticed that GIA rated princess cut diamonds are generally cheaper than AGS0. This is most likely because GIA doesn't really grade the cut quality in princess cuts. I was originally going to just stick with AGS0 diamonds since AGS grades princess cuts. I am afraid that the diamond will turn out to be a poor cut, even if the vendor says that it's "ideal". Do you guys think that I should look at GIA princesses anyway?


AGS0s, even AGS1s do carry a premium over GIA stones - esp. w/ princesses because of that cut grade, just as you say. GIA doesn't grade cut quality at all, and while we can say that a princess w/ 80depth and 80table is most likely not going to be the best of the bunch - w/ more promising combos it's impossible to say more if you are working w/ an online vendor that doesn't provide photos, ASET, professional opinion...

If you can see them in person - absolutely, compare GIAs too! If you're buying online from a vendor that can provide the above services again promising GIA candidates are worth exploring IMO. If you're working w/ a vendor that provides report and that's it I'd make my life easier and stick to AGS0s/1s or branded types like Solasferas, and have the final choice shipped out to inspect in-person before committing to having it set.


ETA: request ASET
1.52 $9.4k G VS1 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Good-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1279989.asp
1.53 $7.3k I VS2 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Premium-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1371233.asp

1.3 I VVS Solasfera $8k
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7715/
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Thanks!

Do you have any experience with Solomon Brothers or Excel Diamonds? Other than these guys, Whiteflash, and Good Old Gold, I noticed that there aren't too many sites out there that actually sell AGS0 princesses. Thoughts?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,385
ags0|1305436229|2922165 said:
Thanks!

Do you have any experience with Solomon Brothers or Excel Diamonds? Other than these guys, Whiteflash, and Good Old Gold, I noticed that there aren't too many sites out there that actually sell AGS0 princesses. Thoughts?


NP :)) I don't have experience w/ either.. I know Excel will provide photo and ASET pic on request, SB does not.. looking at the simulated ASET on the AGS report would be sufficient for me, personally, to decide whether or not it's worth having a stone shipped out to inspect in-person - but I wouldn't buy a GIA from a vendor that couldn't provide more pics/info if I'm on a close schedule and on the hook for return shipping. Judah Gutwein from Excel posts here occasionally.

Also try www.briangavindiamonds.com for signature princesses, and Crafted by Infinity princesses at www.highperformancediamonds.com & www.niceice.com
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
You've gotten some great advice already, so I'll just echo that the AGS0 looks better than the AGS1 (even though both rate 0 for light performance - you can see there's some variation in the AGS0 category). Yssie's suggestions are all worth looking into. And yes, it's notoriously difficult to find well-cut princesses in that carat range, because EVERYONE seems to want that carat range (someday myself included when I decide to upgrade my 1.0).
 

ags0

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
33
Ahh... that makes sense.

I got another question: If I were to place this diamond on a pave setting, will the side stones make the whole ring shine more? Or will that the color I of the center diamond show up? The side diamonds are supposed to be in the F-G range.
 
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