Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H, VS2

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Images of the stone are attached. What bothers me is something that looks like a scratch on the table. Yet the seller assured me that there is no damage. So it must have been some dust atop the diamond or some sort of camera defect.

There are also some small discrepancies with the GIA report. Is it something I should be worried about? And what about a large number of inclusions? The seller assured me that the diamond is eye-clean, but could that be problem later on?

Overall, what do you think? Shall I buy this one?

Well, there's nothing on the report, so there shouldn't be in the picture. I'd absolutely make 100% sure that that's not a scratch! Have them send you another picture confirming that nothing's there...before doing anything with them.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Hi Greakly,

The "scratch" on the table would bother me too!

Is the top image of the diamond suposed to be an Idealscope image? Either that stone has a ton of light leakage, or they didn't take the image properly. Can they take a few more pictures?

Here's more about what an idealscope image should look like: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_fancy.asp Notice how a princess with top lihght performace should be suffused with red from corner to corner?

The fire trace measuring results look promising but I'm not familiar enough with that specific analysis to say whether it's mostly a selling tool or whether it actually means anything.
Here's the only thread I could find that refers to fire trace, and that has a picture https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-interpret-firetrace-images.37613/
The fact that the fire trace analyses the bottom of the stone for reflected light is a bit weird, because you won't be setting your stone upside down - so it's a fairly meaningless measurement.

Have you seen it in person? Can the vendor show you how it looks along side other princesses for comparison?

Hey PS princess aficionados - What do you think?

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Hi Greakly,

The "scratch" on the table would bother me too!

Is the top image of the diamond suposed to be an Idealscope image? Either that stone has a ton of light leakage, or they didn't take the image properly. Can they take a few more pictures?

Here's more about what an idealscope image should look like: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_fancy.asp Notice how a princess with top lihght performace should be suffused with red from corner to corner?

The fire trace measuring results look promising but I'm not familiar enough with that specific analysis to say whether it's mostly a selling tool or whether it actually means anything.
Here's the only thread I could find that refers to fire trace, and that has a picture https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-interpret-firetrace-images.37613/
The fact that the fire trace analyses the bottom of the stone for reflected light is a bit weird, because you won't be setting your stone upside down - so it's a fairly meaningless measurement.

Have you seen it in person? Can the vendor show you how it looks along side other princesses for comparison?

Hey PS princess aficionados - What do you think?

It's clearly NOT an idealscope image. He didn't get any of those, thats why he posted what he had. This stone is cut really well and according to the report he posted has excellent performance. The only concern is the table.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

The company doesn't have an ideal-scope. They claim Fire Trace is somewhat similar to that. To me it sounds like a variation of the MSU program from here:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/classic/princess.htm

Here is what I found regarding Fire Trace:

http://www.jogiadiamonds.com.au/blog/review-of-the-ogi-firetrace/

http://www.ogisystems.com/gemologicals/firetrace.html

http://www.ogisystems.com/software/firetracesoft.html

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/firetrace-intensity.90374/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/firetrace-intensity.90374/[/URL]

http://www.diamondreview.com/forum/topic/8404-is-this-diamond-too-good-to-be-true/

 

[gregchang35]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

From your links:

Jogia states that the firetrace is:

"We’ve been using the OGI Firetrace for nearly a year now, and whilst it has been popular with customers, we feel it is time to move on to more meaningful and accurate software, namely the AGS Performance Grading System.

For princesses and emeralds (square and rectangular), it’s not that bad. The report will pick up princess cuts with poor proportions and mark them down. However, the lowest score I’ve seen is about 75% light return. On the other hand, it also gives stupid scores such as 114% light return. I’ve come to the conclusion that if you take 15% away from the light return percentage for princess cuts, then you do actually get a pretty accurate figure."

So, it seems to me that the firetrace is NOT that reliable. and it is a tool that most PS do not know much about. Also, based on the fact that most vendors on here do not have a firetrace, it gives you an indication on their reliability of this tool for their gems.

Whereas we know from GOG and as per your link, ASET tool:
"AGS's brand new tool which works along the idea of red reflector technology except it shows the details from which the diamond is drawing its light from. Green represents light entering the diamond from 0-45 degree angles, red from 45-75 degree angles and blue from the 75-90 degree spectrum. As of this writing AGS has not yet released their desktop model (the official ASET) so the images used in this tutorial are done with actual models of diamonds we've scanned in and using the ASET view within DiamCalc."

this is a tool that gets used on this forum to help ppl understand the performance of the princess cut diamond, amongst others. So, this tool is valued more on PS. No vendor has given views on the value of ASET images vs others but based on the fact that most vendors use this tool, may give you an indication how the view this tool.

Given that the company that you are dealing with does not have idealscope or ASET images, gives you an idea of how it values the performance of the diamond. However, based on the information that you have given to us, I am not sure of the surface of the diamond maybe the diamond wasnt clean when they took the picture; and also the tint that i see in the princess picture provided. I am colour sensitive and prefer E colours. so that is my bias.

I hope that helps.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Here's the only thread I could find that refers to fire trace, and that has a picture https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-interpret-firetrace-images.37613/

I attached the graph from that thread here. Apparently, GOG uses (has used) Fire Trace. Here are a few comments from there:

The FireTrace images are showing how this stone would look under an H&A viewer with blue coloring. There should also be an "intensity" reading along with the FireTrace results and perhaps even a graph showing the results for metrics of brilliance, dispersion and scintillation.

While we have the hardware/software from OGI I am more familiar with Sarin/Helium results and ray tracing via DiamCalc so I can''t give you the commentary you''re seeking. The results shown in the OGI are according to the algorithms input by OGI.

For reference here is a stone I scanned in for ya which is of a princess cut with AGS Ideal Light Performance.

One other point of note. The OGI scanner has an option to save files in stereo lithographic format (.stl extension) which is a file that can easily be imported into the MSU DiamCalc software for further analysis.

Is it possible that the vendor I am about to buy the stone from (internet department of a well established B&M store) has equipment for SARIN and Fire Trace but doesn't have anything to produce ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Hi Greakly, I've written you a novel!

It's quite possible that a mostly B+M store doesn't have all the reflector technologies that the internet market has begun to demand, even though they're not that expensive to get. http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp Many PS ers even buy their own.

That's ok, it never hurts to ask. (Though it will porbably hurt their online sales in the long run, but that's not our concern.)

GOG did start with fire trace back around 2005, but they have since tweaked and modified their set-up (Under Lightscope in the GOG article you linked) I think it's safe to say the original firescope isn't their first choice for an evaluation tool.
Given Joiga's experience of a 75%-114% light return reading for stones that they've evaluated, and your reading of 74.9% which falls on the lower end of that range, either your diamond is an average performer, or if you just look at the pretty red boxes in the graph your diamond is excellent on all accounts.

The first paragraph of OGI''s website about firetrace seems to indicate it is mainly a sales tool to assure customers of their stone's beauty http://ogisystems.com/software/firetracesoft.html (Perhapse no matter what the stone actually looks like?)

If bombarded with enough light, every diamond sparkles, and jewellery stores have special lighting to capitalize on this fact. (Costco, home depot and many bookstores also have this kind of light). When taken into ordinary every day lighting conditions ( house lighting, office fluorescents, dim conditions , outside in the shade, etc. Well cut stones will still be bright and lively, but average and poor performers will dull and become relatively lifeless. My concern is that fire trace is calibrated, designed around the perfect lighting environment, and so not a great indicator of everyday performance. If your stone returns 75% of the light in a 100% light environment, how will it look in a more natural 30-50% light environment?

The main point of all these pictures and measurements is to give you confidence in the stone your'e looking at, and tell you more about it. At this point do you feel like you have enough information to comfortably have the stone sent to you and eat the shipping if it turns out you don't like how it looks?

Can they do a comparison for you?

Ok, If it's sitting at a well established B+M , they should at least be able to take some pictures of your rock along side 3-4 other princesses they have on hand. For purposes of comparing the overall look of the stone, the other princesses don't have to be the same 4c's grades as yours, Just a few that are F-I, VVS1-SI1, somewhere around 1ct. At the very least this will tell you if it looks better, worse, or the same as other princesses under the same lighting conditions.

04diamond<3 seems to like your stone, but I would want more information (I need all the details).

I think you've probably learned way more about diamonds this week than ever before.

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

04diamond<3 seems to like your stone, but I would want more information (I need all the details).
.

Not sure what the problem is............... But OP - the only think other than a picture for a princess stone that I care about seeing is NOT an idealscope but an ASET image. If you can get one of those, that would be fine.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

04diamond<3 - your liking the stone is a vote in it's favour (your opinion is valuable). I agree with you that an ASET image would be most helpful in this situation.

 

[gregchang35]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Here's the only thread I could find that refers to fire trace, and that has a picture https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-interpret-firetrace-images.37613/

I attached the graph from that thread here. Apparently, GOG uses (has used) Fire Trace. Here are a few comments from there:

The FireTrace images are showing how this stone would look under an H&A viewer with blue coloring. There should also be an "intensity" reading along with the FireTrace results and perhaps even a graph showing the results for metrics of brilliance, dispersion and scintillation.

While we have the hardware/software from OGI I am more familiar with Sarin/Helium results and ray tracing via DiamCalc so I can''t give you the commentary you''re seeking. The results shown in the OGI are according to the algorithms input by OGI.

For reference here is a stone I scanned in for ya which is of a princess cut with AGS Ideal Light Performance.

One other point of note. The OGI scanner has an option to save files in stereo lithographic format (.stl extension) which is a file that can easily be imported into the MSU DiamCalc software for further analysis.

Is it possible that the vendor I am about to buy the stone from (internet department of a well established B&M store) has equipment for SARIN and Fire Trace but doesn't have anything to produce ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

Only way to find out is to ask the vendor. Don't need to speculate.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Is it possible that the vendor I am about to buy the stone from (internet department of a well established B&M store) has equipment for SARIN and Fire Trace but doesn't have anything to produce ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

Only way to find out is to ask the vendor. Don't need to speculate.

The stone came in their store late on Friday afternoon. The guy I was dealing with (quite knowledgeable one) has left the office before that. His replacement turned out to be a newbie sales girl. She claimed I was the first one in a year who wanted to see SARIN and ASET. After consulting with the higher guys she managed to get me SARIN and Fire Trace, claiming they use it all the time instead of ASET.

At this point I believe it doesn't make any sense to ask her about anything. I am just waiting for the knowledgeable guy to return to the office on Monday. But what if he says that indeed they do not have the ASET machine? Could that be true (again, this is fairly big B&M store)? Or he just wants to sell me the diamond based on Fire Trace results only (because ASET would yield something NOT favorable to that stone)?

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I've written you a novel!

You did. And I very much appreciate that.

The main point of all these pictures and measurements is to give you confidence in the stone your'e looking at, and tell you more about it. At this point do you feel like you have enough information to comfortably have the stone sent to you and eat the shipping if it turns out you don't like how it looks?

Yes, I am ready to do that. My only concern is it will come with the setting (simple solitaire). Do you think that would create problems for local jeweler to inspect it and/or to get ASET image?

Also I will be receiving this stone in Louisville, KY (am I there for the trade show). It seems that there is only one place there that could do the appraisal. I hope, they have the equipment to take the ASET image.

Can they do a comparison for you? Ok, If it's sitting at a well established B+M , they should at least be able to take some pictures of your rock along side 3-4 other princesses they have on hand. For purposes of comparing the overall look of the stone, the other princesses don't have to be the same 4c's grades as yours, Just a few that are F-I, VVS1-SI1, somewhere around 1ct. At the very least this will tell you if it looks better, worse, or the same as other princesses under the same lighting conditions.

I'll ask them.

I think you've probably learned way more about diamonds this week than ever before.

You bet!

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm on my kindle and don't know how to post links, and I'm not sure you'd be interested anyway but WF has a gorgeous AGS0. 95 I VS1 for $4650. Its a gorgeous stone but a color grade lower than I think you were looking for. It would be my choice over any you have posted, includes all the additional info you need to make an informed decision, ensures you purchase a beauty and offers you the trade up and buy back policies should you choose to use them. I'm also betting that its very similar money to the one you are currently considering without any truly useful information.

I'd check it out and see what you think....

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm on my kindle and don't know how to post links, and I'm not sure you'd be interested anyway but WF has a gorgeous AGS0. 95 I VS1 for $4650.

Thank you for your advice, but .95 and I color wouldn't work for me.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm on my kindle and don't know how to post links, and I'm not sure you'd be interested anyway but WF has a gorgeous AGS0. 95 I VS1 for $4650.

Thank you for your advice, but .95 and I color wouldn't work for me.

I know technically its under a Ct but if you look at the dimensions its only about .1mm smaller face up than the 1.01 you posted. Essentially that is the width of a single sheet of copy paper. The fact that it has ideal light performance will make it appear larger, brighter, and whiter than a stone with inferior performance. I understand your concern about the color however, since some are much more color sensitive than others, but I'd mention that the difference between an H and an I are minimal and almost indiscernible to some...add the fantastic optics to that and it becomes even more difficult. My opinion would be that an AGS0 ACA stone with I color would be much more visibly appealing and marketable than a mediocre cut with one color grade advantage. Just something to think about.

 

[justginger]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm on my kindle and don't know how to post links, and I'm not sure you'd be interested anyway but WF has a gorgeous AGS0. 95 I VS1 for $4650.

Thank you for your advice, but .95 and I color wouldn't work for me.

I know technically its under a Ct but if you look at the dimensions its only about .1mm smaller face up than the 1.01 you posted. Essentially that is the width of a single sheet of copy paper. The fact that it has ideal light performance will make it appear larger, brighter, and whiter than a stone with inferior performance. I understand your concern about the color however, since some are much more color sensitive than others, but I'd mention that the difference between an H and an I are minimal and almost indiscernible to some...add the fantastic optics to that and it becomes even more difficult. My opinion would be that an AGS0 ACA stone with I color would be much more visibly appealing and marketable than a mediocre cut with one color grade advantage. Just something to think about.

Completely agree. With an AGS0 ACA you know you're getting cut perfection - and cut perfection results in whiter, bigger looking stones. It would, very easily, be my first choice.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I completely agree with you from aesthetic point of view. However, from the point of "marketability" "just under 1 ct" and I color are pretty bad choices.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I do agree with Christina and justginger, an AGS0 ACA would be a fantastic choice.

Reality check - The main purpose of a diamond ring is to be beautiful. It's a lovely bobble for your wife to enjoy and be captivated by the sparkles. If you want marketability get her a CZ play ring and a nice fat savings bond or GIC.

The other purposed of a diamond ring is to remind her of you every time she sees it. You want to remind her that you cared about her enought to find the brightest, most sparkling diamond.

I know you've got your stone all picked out and are having it sent to you etc., but if it turns out to be a dud, please send it back and find a different stone!

A deal isn't a deal unless you're getting absolutely everything you want.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I completely agree with you from aesthetic point of view. However, from the point of "marketability" "just under 1 ct" and I color are pretty bad choices.

I disagree with you. Many people search for stones just under a ct to avoid paying the weight premium. These stones are often cut better as they have been cut for performance rather than weight retention. Do a quick search and you will see how few of the 'just under a ct' options are available, there is a reason for that. H and I are both considered near colorless so I doubt that you will realize much of a price difference if you decide to sell at some point.

In the US a stone weighing .95-1.05 are advertised as 1ct I believe. If you were to list your stone on rapnet (as you suggested would be a possibility in the event you needed to sell) and a dealer called in two stones for a potential buyer to view side by side, one being a mediocre 1ct H VS2 and the other being your superbly cut .95 I VS1, I believe the buyer would easily see that there was no visible size difference, negligible color difference, and an enormous difference in performance. Which would you buy? I know which one I would buy. If both of these stones were listed on DB for instance, the .95 would sell much faster than the 1.01, especially with the additional information you could supply, same for ebay I believe. I don't think you realize how much value the IS and ASET and cut quality offer you. You listed a stone with a fire trace, many argue that fire trace is a feel good tool for consumers and of no real value in determining the stones performance,yet this company chose to use it to encourage you to purchase their stone. The ACA offers a pedigree, the IS and ASET offer evidence of the stones performance, yet you don't feel that it offers your stone value in the event that you decide to sell....

EDIT: Oh, and a link to the .95 in case others want to offer their opinion...
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2790088.htm


ETA...again. And please don't confuse 'marketability' with 'beauty'. Many of the engagement rings being worn today are much lower quality purchased through large retail B&M stores, many in the J and lower color range and I1 clarity range. So if you are looking for a stone based on what the majority of the public is buying and wearing than I suppose this should be your target range.

I guess I just cant understand purchasing a luxury item with the thought that at some point I may have to sell it to recoup some of my money. To me this is screams instant gratification and irresponsibility. If I were concerned of upcoming hard times I would be banking my money in lieu of purchasing luxury items. I love that you want to purchase a ring for your wife, but have you considered how being forced to sell the stone at some point my affect her emotionally? Many women are very sentimental about their wedding rings and would be heartbroken to part with them. I think some of the saddest stories about the current economic conditions are those about couples being forced to sell their wedding rings to keep a roof over their heads, buy groceries or prescriptions etc. I suppose it's none of my business but it's worth considering. Purchasing a $5000 diamond is NOT the same as $5000 in the bank.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Today I have received two more pictures of the diamond. What do you think? For some reason they are unable to provide ASET image. I wonder, if I buy this stone with the setting (simple solitaire) and have local jeweler take a look at it, will the setting pose a problem for taking ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

 

[bunnycat]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Today I have received two more pictures of the diamond. What do you think? For some reason they are unable to provide ASET image. I wonder, if I buy this stone with the setting (simple solitaire) and have local jeweler take a look at it, will the setting pose a problem for taking ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

I'm not sure if what they are using is like idealscope or not, but with a blue cup on it instead of the usual red one so my comments are based on the assumption that this is their version of an idealscope image. Perhaps you could verify with them.

If it is, then it is pretty clear there is a ring of leakage (white) in the image that also corroborates with the second image ring of darkness. I am not an expert on princess cuts, I'm just stating what I see from the images so someone more experienced with princesses will have to chime in on whether that is bad or not. As an aside, the same ring shows up in the first picture you posted of the stone.

An idealscope is just a magnifying loupe with a colored plastic cup attached to it for viewing light return when placed over a diamond. They cost about $30. They are usually red, but I suppose other colors would work too. (?)

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Today I have received two more pictures of the diamond. What do you think? For some reason they are unable to provide ASET image. I wonder, if I buy this stone with the setting (simple solitaire) and have local jeweler take a look at it, will the setting pose a problem for taking ASET and Ideal-Scope images?

I still love it. But I think you really need to ask yourself how you feel about it. We can give you pages of opinions, but YOU have to decide if YOU like it or not.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm not sure if what they are using is like idealscope or not

They said it's Ideal-Scope. They just have it in blue instead of red (I guess, in order to stay within the same color pattern with their Fire Trace system).

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I still love it. But I think you really need to ask yourself how you feel about it.

Well, that's the "emotional" part, which I will go into AFTER receiving the stone. Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible regarding this stone's "technical" specs.

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I still love it. But I think you really need to ask yourself how you feel about it.

Well, that's the "emotional" part, which I will go into AFTER receiving the stone. Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible regarding this stone's "technical" specs.

No.....you need to do that NOW! It's YOUR money. You need to decide if this stone is good enough. My point is that we can tell you whatever we want, but YOU are going to hash the cash for it. I'm not asking you to cry about it now, but use your own personal preferences and good judgement and decide with your eye on what performs well to YOU.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I still love it. But I think you really need to ask yourself how you feel about it.

Well, that's the "emotional" part, which I will go into AFTER receiving the stone. Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible regarding this stone's "technical" specs.

It looks quite dark in the center so I agree with bastetcat on that. I believe you can do better as others have pointed out. It appears though that you are only looking for people to agree with you or offer you reassurance and dismiss the rest, so in that regard I agree with 04diamonds that it doesn't really matter what any of us think, YOU have to be happy and content with the stone. We have offered sound advice, options and opinions, take them or leave them, at this point it really comes down to how you feel about the stone.

 

[justginger]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I still love it. But I think you really need to ask yourself how you feel about it.

Well, that's the "emotional" part, which I will go into AFTER receiving the stone. Right now I am trying to learn as much as possible regarding this stone's "technical" specs.

It looks quite dark in the center so I agree with bastetcat on that. I believe you can do better as others have pointed out. It appears though that you are only looking for people to agree with you or offer you reassurance and dismiss the rest, so in that regard I agree with 04diamonds that it doesn't really matter what any of us think, YOU have to be happy and content with the stone. We have offered sound advice, options and opinions, take them or leave them, at this point it really comes down to how you feel about the stone.

Again, completely agree. I'm sorry GREAKLEY, but you've come to a consumers advocate site regarding purchasing the best stone for your money. You are seemingly not interested in doing that, so our advice is of no value to you. Do what you want, as that appears to be the outcome no matter what advice or suggestions you receive here.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I do understand that members of pricescope community are very special. They are diamond enthusiasts and connoisseurs (so to speak ). On the other hand, there is real world out there. Where Average Joe has no idea about diamonds, yet, once in a while, he comes out of the woodwork and buys one. Then there are dealers, who live in both worlds. They know everything about diamonds, yet cater to the taste (and wallet) of the Average Joe. And, then, there is me, who's just trying to find that tiny spot in between those worlds. So that the diamond I end up buying would be OKeyed by connoisseurs and, at the same time, would fit the taste (and, again, the wallet) of the Average Joe.

A few weeks ago I had no clue about diamonds. My wife still has no idea about them. So, she will be happy with any diamond I present her. I could have given her a CZ and she wouldn't know the difference (but, of course, I wouldn't do such thing). So it's not about how well the diamond performs. It is about the expression of my feelings toward her. Knowing how much I spent on that diamond (if i don't tell her her girlfriends would) she would know how much I value her. And that's what this thing is all about.

But, again, there is real world out there and anything could happen. I don't think that she would have to sell it due to economic hardship (there is "money in the bank" as well). But, later, she might decide to upgrade it. And, yes, I know that most companies offer upgrade policy. But I (and my wife is very much like me) hate to be stuck with a certain vendor. If I do my homework and buy the stone right, we'll be able to choose any dealer (if need be) with little or no loss. Even if the stone is not the top aesthetic choice. Again, each dealer has to follow Average Joe's (aka "mass market") preferences.

It might look like I do not listen or value your opinion and advice. That's not correct. I do. In fact, very much. But, at the same time, I always have to keep in mind the "other side". For instance, that "under carat" - "over carat" issue. Just look at the diamond finder. There are thousands of diamond just above carat and only a few below it. I do not know about you, but that tells me something. Members of this forum might admire beautiful 0.95 ct diamond, but it could still take a long time to sell. On the other hand, out of the four diamond listed in this topic two got sold within 24 hours. Again, that means something, doesn't it?

I hope this makes some sense to you.

 

[aljdewey]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

But I (and my wife is very much like me) hate to be stuck with a certain vendor. If I do my homework and buy the stone right, we'll be able to choose any dealer (if need be) with little or no loss. Even if the stone is not the top aesthetic choice. Again, each dealer has to follow Average Joe's (aka "mass market") preferences.

It might look like I do not listen or value your opinion and advice. That's not correct. I do. In fact, very much. But, at the same time, I always have to keep in mind the "other side". For instance, that "under carat" - "over carat" issue. Just look at the diamond finder. There are thousands of diamond just above carat and only a few below it. I do not know about you, but that tells me something. Members of this forum might admire beautiful 0.95 ct diamond, but it could still take a long time to sell. On the other hand, out of the four diamond listed in this topic two got sold within 24 hours. Again, that means something, doesn't it?

I hope this makes some sense to you.

What I'm about to say is going to be completely lost on you because you seem to only want to hear that which supports your theory, but for the sake of anyone else reading who may want good input, I'm gonna stab at it anyway.

Re the bolded above....let me be super clear on this: a vendor will always be able to source anything that appeals to the "Average Joe" from his own dealers/suppliers for much, much less than he can from you. You are buying at retail price; vendors can source from wholesalers at wholesale price. Your only hope of hitting 'little to no loss' would be if the market rises so significantly over the next several years that future wholesale prices rise to the level of today's retail prices.

Your chances of making a really sound buying decision would increase greatly if you took in much of the good advice that many here with years in the trade have tried to give you (without success, it would seem).

Your belief that .9x stones aren't desirable because you don't see on the 'diamond finder" is a perfect example of how much you don't understand this market (or basic economics). When products aren't readily available in the marketplace, it's precisely because they *are* in demand and therefore can't be kept in stock. Available in stock is what happens when market demand has been met; if you don't believe this, just look at the early iPhone releases. You couldn't put your hands on new releases for months in the store, even though other brands were readily available---they flew off the shelves without even getting stocked, and shelves were empty for months until supply caught up with demand.

There are two primary reasons you don't see a lot of .9x stones on the market. First, most cutters understand there is a huge financial advantage to hitting the magic 1 ct mark, so they will cut for that weight retention. Second, the few that do hit the .9x rarely make it to broker lists; they are snapped up by dealers who are already on the hunt for clients long before they hit a list that you'll see.

For anyone else in Greakly's position who may be more disposed to hearing the good advice given in this thread........diamonds aren't an investment at the casual level, and resale will not recover all the funds spent at purchase outside of upgrade policies.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

But I (and my wife is very much like me) hate to be stuck with a certain vendor. If I do my homework and buy the stone right, we'll be able to choose any dealer (if need be) with little or no loss. Even if the stone is not the top aesthetic choice. Again, each dealer has to follow Average Joe's (aka "mass market") preferences.

It might look like I do not listen or value your opinion and advice. That's not correct. I do. In fact, very much. But, at the same time, I always have to keep in mind the "other side". For instance, that "under carat" - "over carat" issue. Just look at the diamond finder. There are thousands of diamond just above carat and only a few below it. I do not know about you, but that tells me something. Members of this forum might admire beautiful 0.95 ct diamond, but it could still take a long time to sell. On the other hand, out of the four diamond listed in this topic two got sold within 24 hours. Again, that means something, doesn't it?

I hope this makes some sense to you.

What I'm about to say is going to be completely lost on you because you seem to only want to hear that which supports your theory, but for the sake of anyone else reading who may want good input, I'm gonna stab at it anyway.

Re the bolded above....let me be super clear on this: a vendor will always be able to source anything that appeals to the "Average Joe" from his own dealers/suppliers for much, much less than he can from you. You are buying at retail price; vendors can source from wholesalers at wholesale price. Your only hope of hitting 'little to no loss' would be if the market rises so significantly over the next several years that future wholesale prices rise to the level of today's retail prices.

Your chances of making a really sound buying decision would increase greatly if you took in much of the good advice that many here with years in the trade have tried to give you (without success, it would seem).

Your belief that .9x stones aren't desirable because you don't see on the 'diamond finder" is a perfect example of how much you don't understand this market (or basic economics). When products aren't readily available in the marketplace, it's precisely because they *are* in demand and therefore can't be kept in stock. Available in stock is what happens when market demand has been met; if you don't believe this, just look at the early iPhone releases. You couldn't put your hands on new releases for months in the store, even though other brands were readily available---they flew off the shelves without even getting stocked, and shelves were empty for months until supply caught up with demand.

There are two primary reasons you don't see a lot of .9x stones on the market. First, most cutters understand there is a huge financial advantage to hitting the magic 1 ct mark, so they will cut for that weight retention. Second, the few that do hit the .9x rarely make it to broker lists; they are snapped up by dealers who are already on the hunt for clients long before they hit a list that you'll see.

For anyone else in Greakly's position who may be more disposed to hearing the good advice given in this thread........diamonds aren't an investment at the casual level, and resale will not recover all the funds spent at purchase outside of upgrade policies.

Much better said that I could! I would only also mention that you if you decide to upgrade the stone at some point you will most likely receive the best offer from the vendor that sold you the stone than from one that didn't. This is precisely why trade in and buy back programs are sought after. It also guarantees you a market, but all of this was addressed on your other thread, so this is really as aljdewey mentioned, for the sake of any others that may be following this thread.