Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H, VS2

[GREAKLY]

Hello, everybody,

I am in the final stage of selecting the diamond for a ring that I plan to present to my wife. She likes square stones, so princess cut was pretty much the only choice (rounds were definitely out of the question). After a lot of advice given on this forum (for which I am very grateful) I decided to focus on 1+ ct, G-H, VS2+, GIA XXX.

Finally, I am down to these three stones:

1. https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=6147821520&weight=1.01#

$4450-4600 (depending which seller I buy it from). The price is great, but what concerns me is the large number of inclusions. I mean, the stone has been graded VS2 but the GIA, but with so many inclusions it sounds more like SI1 to me.

2. https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2151165781&weight=1.01#

$4900-5150. Everything is Ok about this diamond but the price. Do you think it is worth $500+ premium for VVS2 vs VS2 in this case?

3. See attached GIA report.

$5070. The one is a bit out of the "ideal" proportions (table is 70%). But the rest looks quite good and the price is quite attraction (especially on the "per carat" basis).

Which one shall I choose? Are the inclusion on the first one too bad or not? And shell I go for #3 (biggest bang for the back) or rather stay with #2 (overall better quality)?

Thank you in advance.

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

need pictures.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

need pictures.

Unfortunately, they aren't not available. Which stone would have you decided without them?

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

and one more @ $4950:

https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2146469699&weight=1.03#

The price sounds about right. But the stone has a combined inclusion under the table. How bad is it?

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

and one more @ $4950:

https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2146469699&weight=1.03#

The price sounds about right. But the stone has a combined inclusion under the table. How bad is it?

I'd be interested in seeing a picture of this one. but AGAIN, I wouldn't ever buy a stone without seeing it. So really, my answer is still neither.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Hi Greakly,

Buying a diamond without seeing it is like buying a painting without seeing it - you can ask about it's size, if it has certain colors etc. but that won't tell you if it's actually any good.

As far as princesses are concerned, there is a huge amount of variety out there:
http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...9000|Sort:Carat asc, DefaultOrder|ps:15|pn:1|

Diamond example:

Here are two diamonds within your spec range:

1)http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...ut/1.01-carat-H-color-VVS2-clarity-sku-154032

2)http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...cut/1.01-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-sku-165515

The first one is what I would consider a dud- if you click into it and let it turn slowly you can see it's fairly dull, the body color is quite evident due to probable light leakage, it just doesn't have a lot of sparkle!

The second one is lively and has a nice mix of contrasting facets (watch them wink on and off as the diamond turns), and the body color isn't that noticible due to the high amount of light return.

I'm not a cushion person, but I do know you want to look for a nice mix of contrasting ( dark) facets that are fairly symetrical ( the more symetrical the better) and not too clumped as to create major areas of obstruction in your stone (although some people may like this).

Clumped dark facets example:
http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...cut/1.01-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-sku-181877

Do you know what to look for in a cushion visually?

Learn from Jon! He has a great eye for light performance. I know you don't want to purchase from him - (That's perfectly fine!) but take a look at the visuals of how he picks stones and how the IS/aset images match the photograph of the stone, then take your knowledge of what a photo of a good stone looks like and use that to inform your choice elsewhere.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10273/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9926/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9698/


Best of luck on your hunt!

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

^^^ Hopedream^^^

The problem is that all three of your choices could look vastly different. If you've looked at many princess cuts either online or in person you will see that they have very different looks to them. Just it's the number of chevrons the stone has make a big impact on appearance and they way it reflects light. I can't make a recommendation because honestly it would be like throwing a dart and saying 'Get that one!'

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

You definitely can't choose a princess without pictures. A round is possible but not ever advised, but finding a great princess without pictures is impossible.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Hello, everybody,

I am in the final stage of selecting the diamond for a ring that I plan to present to my wife. She likes square stones, so princess cut was pretty much the only choice (rounds were definitely out of the question). After a lot of advice given on this forum (for which I am very grateful) I decided to focus on 1+ ct, G-H, VS2+, GIA XXX.

Finally, I am down to these three stones:

1. https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=6147821520&weight=1.01#

$4450-4600 (depending which seller I buy it from). The price is great, but what concerns me is the large number of inclusions. I mean, the stone has been graded VS2 but the GIA, but with so many inclusions it sounds more like SI1 to me.

2. https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2151165781&weight=1.01#

$4900-5150. Everything is Ok about this diamond but the price. Do you think it is worth $500+ premium for VVS2 vs VS2 in this case?

3. See attached GIA report.

$5070. The one is a bit out of the "ideal" proportions (table is 70%). But the rest looks quite good and the price is quite attraction (especially on the "per carat" basis).

Which one shall I choose? Are the inclusion on the first one too bad or not? And shell I go for #3 (biggest bang for the back) or rather stay with #2 (overall better quality)?

Thank you in advance.

I have to say that I found it a bit ironic that in your other thread you didn't think it was worth paying an extra $500 to have the stones evaluated but in this thread you are wondering if it's worth it to pay an additional $500 to ensure that the stone is eye clean...and you still don't get the buy back policy kwim??

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,



Thought you were just complaining that Whiteflash's markup is unwarranted?

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Here is the picture of #1:

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Thought you were just complaining that Whiteflash's markup is unwarranted?

Actually, none of these belong to WF.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Everything is Ok about this diamond but the price. Do you think it is worth $500+ premium for VVS2 vs VS2 in this case?

I have to say that I found it a bit ironic that in your other thread you didn't think it was worth paying an extra $500 to have the stones evaluated but in this thread you are wondering if it's worth it to pay an additional $500 to ensure that the stone is eye clean...and you still don't get the buy back policy kwim??

I am not sure if I see the irony. In the other thread I didn't think that additional evaluation of the two stones with exactly the same GIA parameters (specifically, both being VS2) was worth $500. In this thread I wonder if two step upgrade (from VS2 to VVS2) is worth $500. Aren't those two different things or am I missing something?

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Here is the picture of #1:

I actually like it from what I can see...anyway they can send you an aset image of it? That'll tell us how it performs since this picture isn't a good judge of that. It may be that the stone is reflecting a black camera...or not, but an aset will let us know how it performs.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

#1's patterning is nice and symetrical, but I notice there are some distinctive contrasting facets at the center surrounding the "x", which may cause the stone to appear dark in the center over all.

I've mocked up a basic evaluation of the stone - it could have leakage issues.

1 is not the worst princess I've ever seen, but you could do better.

Do you have pictures of other stones?

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Here are two diamonds within your spec range:

1)http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...ut/1.01-carat-H-color-VVS2-clarity-sku-154032

2)http://www.jamesallen.com/?gclid=CM...cut/1.01-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-sku-165515

The first one is what I would consider a dud- if you click into it and let it turn slowly you can see it's fairly dull, the body color is quite evident due to probable light leakage, it just doesn't have a lot of sparkle!

The second one is lively and has a nice mix of contrasting facets (watch them wink on and off as the diamond turns), and the body color isn't that noticible due to the high amount of light return.

Actually, neither of these diamonds is within my specs range. Besides from being 1ct, H, VS2 I also want the stone to be GIA XXX. Out of the two above none has even double Xs (for symmetry and polish). So I wouldn't have picked either of them anyway.

That aside, wouldn't it have been possible to figure the difference based solely on the specs? I mean, the first stone has good symmetry (I can see that 73% table is a bit too big though), very good polish and faint fluorescence. The second one has excellent symmetry, very good polish and no fluorescence at all. Wouldn't those be the indicators of what we just saw on pictures? I mean, two grade difference in symmetry plus some fluorescence ought to show up, right? And, given the specs, I do not think it could have been the other way around? Or could it?

I also want an excellent cut. After reading a ton of articles and forums I learned that there is still no consensus in the industry as to what the specs of such cut should be. Hence, GIA doesn't grade the quality of princess cuts. However, the general consensus seems to be that in order to be viewed as an "excellent cut" the princess should have table within 62-68%, depth within 64-75% and crown height between 10-15%.

Are those numbers correct? I mean, do they generally constitute "excellent cut" for princesses? And, if so, could two stones of the same size and Cs (for instance 1+ ct princess, H, VS2) possessing the above-mentioned characteristics and proportions (GIA XXX) still have vast difference in performance?

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Sorry Greakly - I missed the GIA triple X.

Symmetry indicates that the facets of a diamond are even/match each other. Symmetry guarantees an even, non-wonky appearance, but a diamond can be even-looking and still a poor performer at the same time.

Polish indicates the degree to which the diamond is finished at the micro-surface level (Not something you will generally notice).

Flourescence indicates the diamond might look a little bluer if hit by UV light (doesn't affect light performance, may help fake a higher color in certain circumstances)

What polish and symetry don't cover is how all the diamond's facets are angled in relation to each other. It is the individual facets working in concert which give a diamond it's light performance.

I'm sure you've played the "make-a-shiny-spot-on-the-wall-using-the-glass-on-your-watch-to-redirect-the-light" game (usually bored in class with sun streaming in the window.

Now imagine playing that game with 58 watches at once, with all of the watch faces trying to reflect the light to the same spot. This is basically what's hapening with the facets of a princess cut diamond.

To some extent table, depth, and crown height can give you a rough idea of the diamond's basic framework, but for princesses this isn't enough information to go on. We have to see how all the facets work together - so pictures are necessary.

Believe me - If Princesses were easy to pick by numbers we'd have suggested 10 options for you already.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

GIA doesn't cut grade princesses, but AGS does:

for example: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2862799.htm

 

[fige]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Could two stones of the same size and Cs (for instance 1+ ct princess, H, VS2) possessing the above-mentioned characteristics and proportions (GIA XXX) still have vast difference in performance?

Yes, even if a princess cut stone has table, depth and crown height % within the ideal range combined with the XXX, it does not mean it will be 'ideal cut' or a good performer. They could be absolute dogs. The only way to determine performance is through observation or ASETs.

This is why you pay a premium for non-drop shippers, so they can provide those indicators of performance before you buy it. This will save you the effort of paying for the stone, waiting for it to arrive, taking it to a reputable local appraiser. If the appraiser says it's great performer, then lucky you! You hit the jackpot.

If not, you'll have to send it back or settle for something average. If you send it back, you'll be out of pocket for the shipping, return shipping and appraisal.

I guess alternatively you could assess the diamond yourself, although I'm assuming you don't have the experience to do this since you're trying to purchase a princess cut stone off the GIA report.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

This one's not overly dark with obstruction - they should be able to take an aset for you http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.09-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-sku-167306

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2835508.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2790085.htm

If you slide down to I and don't mind a feather and a larger stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10273/
could be eyeclean, nice "bargain" type of stone

Maybe either of these (My perferance is for the first one, based on eyeballing the GCAL):
http://www.bluenile.com/ca/princess...ure-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs1-clarity_LD03007844
http://www.bluenile.com/ca/princess...ure-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs2-clarity_LD02792178

The GCAL gives you some indication of what the stone actually looks like.

I wish there were more options, but when you narrow it down to what you can actually see, the pickings are slim.

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

So

Everything is Ok about this diamond but the price. Do you think it is worth $500+ premium for VVS2 vs VS2 in this case?

I have to say that I found it a bit ironic that in your other thread you didn't think it was worth paying an extra $500 to have the stones evaluated but in this thread you are wondering if it's worth it to pay an additional $500 to ensure that the stone is eye clean...and you still don't get the buy back policy kwim??

I am not sure if I see the irony. In the other thread I didn't think that additional evaluation of the two stones with exactly the same GIA parameters (specifically, both being VS2) was worth $500. In this thread I wonder if two step upgrade (from VS2 to VVS2) is worth $500. Aren't those two different things or am I missing something?

The irony is that you are concerned about inclusions in a VS2 stone and then contemplating spending an additional $500 on a VVS2. Yes, the clarity grade difference justifies the increase in price but if a vendor were assessing the stone for you they would be able to tell you whether the inclusions in the Vs2 were visible possibly saving you from spending $500 more on the VSS2 which likely will have no have any visible difference to the named eye. So my point was yes, spend the extra on a VVS2 (which of course carries its own premium) and you will have an eye clean loupe clean stone and still no option of a buy back policy, or spend that same money and allowing a proffessional to locate and evaluate a stone for you, ensuring that you purchase a beauty, possibly even SAVING you money by not paying grade and size premiums that don't increase the stones beauty or performance and also allows you to sell the stone back to them.

Hopedream is giving you great advice, I hope that you are beginning to see what many of uswere trying g to explain in your other thread...no two H VS2 EX Ex are going to perform the same. This is precisely why the same vendor can carry two or three stones with the exact same color/clarity and cut grade and yet one will be priced higher than the others.




Sorry for the enormous amounts of typos and poor grammer. I posted from my kindle with a 13yo dancing around me.


Edit:

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Do you have pictures of other stones?

I don't. In fact #2 and #3 got sold (or, at least, removed from inventory) in the last 24-48 hours. I guess, I must have really hit the "sweet spot"

I am still waiting for an update on #4.

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I actually like it from what I can see...anyway they can send you an aset image of it? That'll tell us how it performs since this picture isn't a good judge of that. It may be that the stone is reflecting a black camera...or not, but an aset will let us know how it performs.

I called this stone in. Images should be available tomorrow.

 

[HopeDream]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I'm excited to see more pictures of the stone. Will you have it in your posession, or is an online shop having a look at it for you?

If you're able to see it along side some other princesses you should easily be able to see if it's something special or just average.

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

I actually like it from what I can see...anyway they can send you an aset image of it? That'll tell us how it performs since this picture isn't a good judge of that. It may be that the stone is reflecting a black camera...or not, but an aset will let us know how it performs.

I called this stone in. Images should be available tomorrow.

 

[YoungPapa]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

That aside, wouldn't it have been possible to figure the difference based solely on the specs? [no] I mean, the first stone has good symmetry [so?] (I can see that 73% table is a bit too big though [why?]), very good polish [whoopie-doo] and faint fluorescence [meaning?]. The second one has excellent symmetry, very good polish [whoopie-double-doo] and no fluorescence at all. Wouldn't those be the indicators of what we just saw on pictures? [no] I mean, two grade difference in symmetry plus some fluorescence ought to show up, right? [no] And, given the specs, I do not think it could have been the other way around? [yes, absolutely] Or could it? [yes]

My comments in red.

All the best,

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Jim,

 

[04diamond<3]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

That aside, wouldn't it have been possible to figure the difference based solely on the specs? [no] I mean, the first stone has good symmetry [so?] (I can see that 73% table is a bit too big though [why?]), very good polish [whoopie-doo] and faint fluorescence [meaning?]. The second one has excellent symmetry, very good polish [whoopie-double-doo] and no fluorescence at all. Wouldn't those be the indicators of what we just saw on pictures? [no] I mean, two grade difference in symmetry plus some fluorescence ought to show up, right? [no] And, given the specs, I do not think it could have been the other way around? [yes, absolutely] Or could it? [yes]

My comments in red.

All the best,

 

[Christina...]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

That aside, wouldn't it have been possible to figure the difference based solely on the specs? [no] I mean, the first stone has good symmetry [so?] (I can see that 73% table is a bit too big though [why?]), very good polish [whoopie-doo] and faint fluorescence [meaning?]. The second one has excellent symmetry, very good polish [whoopie-double-doo] and no fluorescence at all. Wouldn't those be the indicators of what we just saw on pictures? [no] I mean, two grade difference in symmetry plus some fluorescence ought to show up, right? [no] And, given the specs, I do not think it could have been the other way around? [yes, absolutely] Or could it? [yes]

My comments in red.

All the best,

This just me choke on my coffee! way better than the funny pages! Thanks Jim! Whoopie double do!

 

[GREAKLY]

Re: Help needed at final stage of diamond selection 1ct, H,

Images of the stone are attached. What bothers me is something that looks like a scratch on the table. Yet the seller assured me that there is no damage. So it must have been some dust atop the diamond or some sort of camera defect.

There are also some small discrepancies with the GIA report. Is it something I should be worried about? And what about a large number of inclusions? The seller assured me that the diamond is eye-clean, but could that be problem later on?

Overall, what do you think? Shall I buy this one?