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Help! Need to make decision by Monday on diamond.

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
I was referred here by a friend who used this forum when he bought his engagement ring. I've read up on a bunch on this forum and have come across a diamond that might be right for me from a local seller. It's currently on hold, but I only have until Monday to decide.

I asked the seller for ideal cut diamonds - something that would qualify for A Cut Above status (I realize ACA is a WF brand). He found this diamond and was able to get me Ideal Scope and ASET images. Please let me know what you think. Would this diamond make the cut for A Cut Above? It has a GIA certificate and is rated triple excellent.

compiled.png

Holloway Cut Advisor: 1.3
Depth%: 61.6
Table%:55
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 40.8

dimensions.png

The dimensions are within ACA specs, but I notice the splits in the hearts and the yaw in the Vs. What do I make of that?

Please let me know what else you may need. I don't want to post too much info as I'm afraid someone might snatch it.
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,368
I'll let the experts weigh in on the specs of the stone.

Just my curiosity, if the stone is online, why is a local jeweler sourcing it for you? Is he charging for that service?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,505
Nice stone, love the specs,.. :love: but the hearts are not equal to ACA status.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,180
It does look to be a nice stone but no would not qualify for an ACA. If that is important to you, did you consider purchasing an ACA diamond from WF? They are very nice stones but for a variety of reasons, everyone does not decide to purchase them. It does not, however, mean that you can't find lovely stones elsewhere.
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
I'm not sure why the original picture came out so small. Here they are as separate pictures in case you can get a better look this way.

ahearts.png
aidealscope.png
aaset.png

MissGotRocks said:
It does look to be a nice stone but no would not qualify for an ACA. If that is important to you, did you consider purchasing an ACA diamond from WF? They are very nice stones but for a variety of reasons, everyone does not decide to purchase them. It does not, however, mean that you can't find lovely stones elsewhere.
It sounds like it's not truly ACA status. There's a few reasons why I haven't used WF (but use them as a reference):
1. (most important) I'm priced out of all the ACA stones in the 4Cs that I want. I can afford a few WF Expert Selection stones, but one step lower on both color and clarity than this stone (this one is GVS1). Do you think the first stone I posted at least qualifies as Expert Selection or Premium Selection stones? Personally, would you forgo the optical symmetry of true hearts for better color and clarity? This light performance seems to be better than some ES stones, but still lacks on the Hearts. For example, compared to this:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3048657.htm

2. Almost all WF ACA, Expert Selection stones are AGSL certified. That's fine with me since they are more specific about cuts and light performance, but I've heard that AGSL is softer on color grades. For example, this stone is GIA color G. Since I can only afford a WF ACA/ES AGSL in H, I'm concerned the color drop may be too significant. If I'm wrong here, please let me know.

3. It's not local. That's not a big deal really, but it is more convenient to be local.

Having said all this, I think WF is great and would definitely buy from them. I just can't afford their ACA line.
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
291
Is the price on your stone similar to the WhiteFlash Expert Selection you posted? You can see at a glance that the hearts are more regular on the WhiteFlash stone. It's unfortunate to be under such an imminent deadline for such a large expenditure. There's something about proposals that tend to produce inflexible deadlines, I guess, and at the same time the realization that as the consumer you need weeks if not months to become educated enough to make an excellent purchase, comes too late.

My suggestion is probably not feasible given your deadline, but it would be ideal to
1) Order a Whiteflash stone that does meet your budget;
2) Take it to the local jeweler and compare it directly to the other stone;
3) See if you love one more than the other. Most people will not be able to see the color difference in face up view. Even if you CAN see the difference, remember you will not be viewing your stone next to a very similar stone IRL!! If an H looks beautiful, then it should work for you.
4) Send the Whiteflash stone back if the other stone outperforms it--they actually give you 30 days to view the stone in your own home, work, particular lighting environments you spend most of your time in. You don't live in a jewelry store with spot lighting coming from all directions.

Remember you do want to view stones outside of the jewelry store. Is there a setting you want at the local shop?

I admit I am very biased toward buying online. But it seems you don't have enough time to get an online stone regardless.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
k9boy|1460755441|4019806 said:
I was referred here by a friend who used this forum when he bought his engagement ring. I've read up on a bunch on this forum and have come across a diamond that might be right for me from a local seller. It's currently on hold, but I only have until Monday to decide.
Hey mate - I'm in the trade and therefor can't comment on the stone - other PS members can guide you on that - but I will comment on the above - - - if Monday is your own cut off time to make a decision, that's fine. If however there is pressure for you to decide by Monday from a seller, then you might want to take that with a grain of salt. This is a big decision, and regardless of whatever nonsense you're being told (someone else will buy / price will go up / you won't find anything better / etc) don't fall for it...there are plenty of diamonds out there that will meet your requirements. In all likelihood, it's probably the vendor that only has until Monday to keep the stone on hold for you before they have to let it go back on the market. If it does, then sure it might get sold, but that's not a certainty and it may still be there in a few days/weeks - - the vendor probably doesn't want you to let it go as it might be a lost sale for them...not necessarily what is in your best interests by taking some time to make an informed decision.
Hope this helps
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
Sagefemme|1460777996|4019901 said:
Is the price on your stone similar to the WhiteFlash Expert Selection you posted? You can see at a glance that the hearts are more regular on the WhiteFlash stone.

Remember you do want to view stones outside of the jewelry store. Is there a setting you want at the local shop?

I admit I am very biased toward buying online. But it seems you don't have enough time to get an online stone regardless.
The WF stone I referenced was just an example, but the local seller's price is just slightly less. Buying online isn't really a problem - local is just more convenient for resizing and being able to see the stone before putting a bunch of money down.

I think what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is whether a WF Expert Selection stone is better than this to warrant dropping down from a GVS1 to a HVS2.

Would someone be able to make specific comments on what the see/don't see in the IS/ASET/Hearts? Or a least tell me if I'm right with my reading. Based on my amateur reading:
ASET - Looks perfect to me. I can't see any problems with this.
IdealScope - A bit of light loss under the table, but actually better than the WF ES stone I linked to earlier.
Hearts - The hearts and chevrons/V's seem bad, but I think a large part of this is due to camera mis-position. For example, the hearts at 2 and 8 o'clock have perfectly balanced V's and the smallest splits. This seems to form an axis. All the imbalanced V's are mirrored about this axis. And all the bigger splits actually angled toward one side. I'm not sure how much fixing the camera position would have done for this picture though.

Here are two additional pictures. Arrows and another ASET.

aarrows.jpg
aaset2.jpg
 

Sagefemme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
291
With luck some experts will weigh in on your ASET questions soon, but I remain of the opinion that you need to use your eyes, and those of your girlfriend, to decide. Any competent local bench can resize a ring anytime, for a nominal fee, assuming you choose a setting that lends itself to resizing. Hopefully the size will be correct on the first try.
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
I suppose those in the trade can't comment on the stones. Can I get an opinion then? I found an example stone to compare it with.
Top row: GIA triple excellent, G VS1
Bottom row: AGS0000, H VS2

Assuming all else being the same (price, size, fluoro, location), which would you choose?

comparison_6.jpg
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
4,078
Based only on your post/images above, and assuming same price, I'd pick the H-VS2 AGS OOO -- it is clearly the better cut, and for me the difference in color between G and H is negligible.

However, it sounds like you actually have the G-VS1 available at your local jeweler to inspect yourself... is this correct? If yes, have you looked at it in different lighting environments (meaning, outside the store and/or by a window to see how it looks in indirect daylight, down underneath the jewelry counter, cupped by your hand, etc.)? Do you like it? Do you love it?

Just because the ACA is the better cut does not mean that the G-VS1 will not perform admirably and be entirely satisfactory and pleasing to the eye.
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
marymm|1460825598|4020043 said:
Based only on your post/images above, and assuming same price, I'd pick the H-VS2 AGS OOO -- it is clearly the better cut, and for me the difference in color between G and H is negligible.

However, it sounds like you actually have the G-VS1 available at your local jeweler to inspect yourself... is this correct? If yes, have you looked at it in different lighting environments (meaning, outside the store and/or by a window to see how it looks in indirect daylight, down underneath the jewelry counter, cupped by your hand, etc.)? Do you like it? Do you love it?

Just because the ACA is the better cut does not mean that the G-VS1 will not perform admirably and be entirely satisfactory and pleasing to the eye.
Yes, I have seen the local jeweler's stone in person. To my untrained eye, I think it looks great. I'm sure the AGS000 H VS2 stone will also look great to my untrained eye though.

I know you chose the AGS HVS2 over the GIA GVS1, but when I try to calculate the market value of these diamonds, I get vastly different prices. Depending on the online calculator, there's anywhere from a $3000-$6000 difference, in favor of the GIA stone. So why the discrepancy between PriceScope and the market? In fact, in order to get the same market value, I have to change the GIA stone to "porportions = poor". For reference, both diamonds cost around $14000.
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
I mentioned the problem with the original hearts picture to the seller and he updated me with these photos, which I believe are of the same diamond (currently clarifying that).

Does this change anything? Any more opinions are very welcomed!

unnamed1.jpg
hrts-08.jpg
unnamed2.jpg
 

k9boy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
7
ADN|1460778623|4019902 said:
Hey mate - I'm in the trade and therefor can't comment on the stone - other PS members can guide you on that - but I will comment on the above - - - if Monday is your own cut off time to make a decision, that's fine. If however there is pressure for you to decide by Monday from a seller, then you might want to take that with a grain of salt. This is a big decision, and regardless of whatever nonsense you're being told (someone else will buy / price will go up / you won't find anything better / etc) don't fall for it...there are plenty of diamonds out there that will meet your requirements. In all likelihood, it's probably the vendor that only has until Monday to keep the stone on hold for you before they have to let it go back on the market. If it does, then sure it might get sold, but that's not a certainty and it may still be there in a few days/weeks - - the vendor probably doesn't want you to let it go as it might be a lost sale for them...not necessarily what is in your best interests by taking some time to make an informed decision.
Hope this helps
The deadline is partially on me, since I want the ring in a month and some settings take that long to order. I actually told the seller to hold it until Monday since I was hoping to get PS folks to let me know if this was a good purchase.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,180
k9boy|1460824524|4020036 said:
I suppose those in the trade can't comment on the stones. Can I get an opinion then? I found an example stone to compare it with.
Top row: GIA triple excellent, G VS1
Bottom row: AGS0000, H VS2

Assuming all else being the same (price, size, fluoro, location), which would you choose?

comparison_6.jpg
The H color stone is the better cut stone. The question is how much difference you will see between these two stones? The difference to the human eye in normal viewing circumstances is probably negligible. ACA stones are branded, super ideal cut stones from Whiteflash. It sometimes becomes a mind clean issue to know you have the best of the best cut diamond. If that is true for you, then by all means buy the Whiteflash stone. If balancing budget against cut, color and clarity is your priority, then the stone you have seen and loved might be your choice. You could also call Whiteflash and discuss your requirements with them. They may be getting something else in very soon that would fit the bill for you. I don't think anyone can truly quantify for you the difference in a way that you could see. Many would say you wouldn't see it and many wouldn't pay the price for a super ideal stone. Crafted by Infinity, GOG and several other PS vendors have their own lines of super ideal diamonds. You might want to take a look at some of their offerings as well. All super ideal cut stones - regardless of the vendor - are cut to very tight specifications. It is difficult to find that level of precision in most regular offerings of stones. Because of the adherence to very specific specifications, there is more rough lost in cutting these stones and the prices reflect it. There are several vendors here that see hundreds of stones that will argue that GIA and AGS color grades are right on par with one another. I would not hesitate to buy an AGS graded stone based on fear of erroneous color grading. There are highs and lows within each color grade and again, those differences are not always easy to see as diamonds are graded in a face down position.

I know this does not answer your question in an absolute fashion but hopefully it gives you some additional food for thought to be used in making your choice. There are no hard and fast answers here - just personal choice based on the most information you can gather. Good luck and let us know what you decide and please come back and show us the ring!
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,257
I have seen a 2 + carat precision cut stone. I didn't even know who cut it, and when I looked at it it immediately caught my attention. Super bright, sharp sparkles, edge to edge. Every angle at which I tilted it, it would flash, big sparkles. My stone is pretty decent. You can look it up. Way outshone mine. Flashier than anything I've seen at Tiffany with all their professional lighting. Never thought I would be able to see the difference but I totally did. After I played around with it for a while they told me it was CBI. CRAFTED BY INFINITI. Yeah. Looking back, I would have been willing to pay more, or get less for the same price. That's just me. I'm a see it to believe it girl. Wish I wasn't. Could have gotten a more beautiful stone.
 
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