Help me replace a stolen engagement ring

[ExcellentNut]

Hi all,

A few years ago this website helped me when I was doing research for an engagement ring, and this forum provided great advice and helped me find a great stone for my then girlfriend. She said yes, is now my wife, and has loved her ring everyday since I popped the question. Unfortunately a few weeks ago, while my wife was unable to wear it due to an injury, it was stolen from our house by a repairman, along with an antique ring that belonged to her grandmother.

Obviously my wife is heartbroken. The good news is, the thief has confessed and is facing a felony theft charge. The bad news is the rings are long gone (sold for heroin).

Luckily our insurance has been great and has already sent us a check for the full appraised amount (actually more than I paid) for the engagement ring. The antique ring is a different story but that's a problem for later. For now we are working on getting the engagement ring remade by the original jeweler. I was hoping PS could help me out again with the diamond.

I bought the original diamond (2.1ct/J/VS2/XXX https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1189941549) on Enchanted Diamonds, but this time we are considering lab grown, which seems to have become more popular in the last few years. Have they simply become better? My wife is totally fine with lab grown, especially if it means a carat/color upgrade for the same money. I'm actually more hesitant for two reasons: GIA and AGS don't grade them, and there seems to be little talk about them on this forum.

Our original jeweler (based in Chicago, but we've since moved to Seattle and thus can't see stones in person) has already suggested two lab grown diamonds, both IGI graded:

1: 2.56ct/G/SI1/"ideal" cut at $14,677
2: 2.57ct/I/VVS2/"ideal" cut at $14,147

I don't have dimensions or angles, but I'm going to try and get report numbers on these.

This seems to beat online prices for comparable online lab grown stones (although I couldn't find many). Am I crazy to consider lab grown? Do these prices look too good to be true? Is there a catch I'm not seeing?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[tanalasta]

Really impossible to comment on any diamond without pictures, dimensions and/or what is really required are pictures including IS/ASET - preferably both.

Last I checked, lab grown are 20-30% cheaper than a comparable "real" diamond. If it's not within that price range, then it's probably too good to be true. However, if it's a jeweller you trust, I'm only speculating and could be wrong entirely. I'd probably not go SI1 in that size unless you knew for certain it was eye clean.

A 2.5 CT G SI1, or H VS2 on WF ACA is about 34'ish ... for comparison.
A 2Ct H, VS2 is 24k

If you really want to save money, try the supernova or the latest colourless, ideal cut / hearts and arrows moissonite. I'm probably going to be flamed for suggesting that!

 

[tkyasx78]

I would not recommend getting a lab grown stone.

 

[Tourmaline]

NO to lab grown. And IGI is not acceptable. It's great that you have money available to get something great.

 

[SimoneDi]

First, I want to say I am sorry about your wife's stolen engagement ring. This hits home as my own engagement ring was stolen, so I understand how unpleasant the situation is. Nonetheless, it is great that you got (even more) funds from your insurance and can now apply them toward a great stone. With that said, I would strongly advice against "investing" in a lab-grown diamond, as they are virtually worthless since there really is no secondary market for them (maybe with a few exceptions for fancy color lab grown). In the world of mined, excellent/ideal cut diamonds, the payment that you got may not get you a 2.5ct stone, but at least it will be one that retains most of its value. We always recommend going with a vendor, who provides nice upgrade/trade back policies, so that if you ever change your mind, you can trade in your existing stone (for what you paid for it) and upgrade to something else.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I would not consider a lab grown diamond for lots of reasons that have already been posted. I want the real deal!

 

[AprilBaby]

Don't forget we can't discuss the M word on here!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Cut is the most important characteristic of a diamond's beauty, so unless they start cutting hearts and arrows lab grown diamonds, I wouldn't give it any thought at all. I would always want my engagement ring to be a natural diamond. Lab grown diamonds are still too expensive. $15k is too much to pay for something that is not a natural diamond, in my opinion.

Here's what appears to be a great buy to me (PLEASE put on hold if you are interested because this one likely will sell):
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R241-047062943? (2.41 J VS2 at $14,750.)

I'd choose that one 1000 times over a lab grown at a similar price.

 

[tkyasx78]

Re: the diamond just posted by diamondseeker

WOW - this looks like a great deal IMO.

 

[tanalasta]

The pricescope Diamond Search function under Resources is amazing.

Just click a criteria for colour, clarity and it'll show you a list of in-house and virtual diamonds, quick links, price per carat etc.

Good luck!

I join in the voices re: lab diamonds. The quality/consistency and value & resale value isn't there. People still want the real thing or not at all.

 

[ExcellentNut]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. It seems the concerns are mostly about authenticity. However, I'm told by multiple jewelers they're the same at a molecular level, and that you wouldn't be able to tell a difference with the naked eye. Then there's resale value, but this is for an engagement ring we don't plan on selling so it's not a big factor either. Also, this jeweler does offer a trade in policy.

On the other hand, if the grading lab is untrustworthy (making the scores meaningless), or if lab growns are overpriced for what they cost to produce, that's a different story. diamondseeker, what do you mean about there not being any heart and arrows lab grown diamonds? Is that a standard that is not being met by lab grown diamonds?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi all,

Our original jeweler (based in Chicago, but we've since moved to Seattle and thus can't see stones in person) has already suggested two lab grown diamonds, both IGI graded:

1: 2.56ct/G/SI1/"ideal" cut at $14,677
2: 2.57ct/I/VVS2/"ideal" cut at $14,147

..Cost that much for a lab grown diamond?..
Forget it!..buy the real thing..

 

[BlingDreams]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. It seems the concerns are mostly about authenticity. However, I'm told by multiple jewelers they're the same at a molecular level, and that you wouldn't be able to tell a difference with the naked eye. Then there's resale value, but this is for an engagement ring we don't plan on selling so it's not a big factor either. Also, this jeweler does offer a trade in policy.

I don't understand this logic. You are more swayed by the opinion of people who are trying to sell you something versus people who have no vested interest? And as for the diamond retaining its value, you would rather make a purchase knowing that you will get nothing back out of it whenever the times to sell/trade it (and trust me, there will be a time whether it is you who does it or someone in future generations) when you could spend the same money and retain a good chunk of its value? Would you make the same decision with other expensive purchases, like a house?

Do you want a diamond, or something that tries to pass for a diamond? Because there is nothing man-made that will come close to the brilliance and personality that a real diamond brings.

 

[mrs-b]

Hi ExcellentNut

The stone posted by Diamondseeker is considerably larger than your original diamond, is almost as large as your lab grown diamonds, and is roughly the same price (more on that later). Is there some reason you *wouldn't* choose it?
I completely understand re molecular identicalness, and about not reselling anyway as it's an engagement ring. But if you can get a natural diamond of similar specs and cost which has far more resale value and a beautiful cut, what reasons would make you hesitate?
The stone DS posted is a steal. I would urge you to at least consider it.
Enchanted Diamonds is having a $250 off July 4th sale - which would make the diamond DS posted cheaper than one of your lab created diamonds and only marginally more than the cheaper one you posted. Given that circumstance, I don't know why you'd even consider lab grown - but perhaps I'm missing something?
I'm posting it again to make it easy for you to take a look.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R241-047062943?

Good luck!

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

ExcellentNut,

This is a trove of strong opinions coupled with some great advice. While RockyTalky is not intended to discuss MMD's there is a whole portion of the forum for that. I came across this thread with a really nice response by the ever-voluble DenverAppraiser - check it out to get a handle on many of the issues you might find when looking at B&M vs. Internet as well as Lab-Grown vs. Natural (Dare I say "Earth-Mined") - See Below:

Here's a small sample -

"Earth mined diamonds"

I hate this term. If you want to see something rare, try and find a diamond mined somewhere else.

Here is the link:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-am-going-synthetic-and-my-so-doesnt-care.226936/

 

[ExcellentNut]

I don't understand this logic. You are more swayed by the opinion of people who are trying to sell you something versus people who have no vested interest?

Sorry, I definitely value the opinions of people on this forum over a jeweler who is trying to make a sale, that's why I come here, to hear arguments that might differ from what jewelers tell me.

And as for the diamond retaining its value, you would rather make a purchase knowing that you will get nothing back out of it whenever the times to sell/trade it (and trust me, there will be a time whether it is you who does it or someone in future generations) when you could spend the same money and retain a good chunk of its value? Would you make the same decision with other expensive purchases, like a house?

Again, this is a minor factor, as we have no intention of selling it. If future generations do, it would be hard to predict today what will be more valuable by then.

Do you want a diamond, or something that tries to pass for a diamond? Because there is nothing man-made that will come close to the brilliance and personality that a real diamond brings.

I'm sorry, this type of argument just seems subjective. This website taught me that we evaluate diamonds based on the 4 C's. If a lab grown objectively lives up to the same standard regarding those, they are a viable option and I don't care about how it came to exist. So my question is, do they not perform as well according to any objective quality measure? The only thing mentioned in this thread was cut. So does that mean that IGI's grading of cut for a lab grown diamond is simply dishonest?

Speaking of which, I received poor quality copies of the IGI reports and ran the numbers through the HCA tool (hopefully I read them right):

2.57ct/I/VVS2:

Light Return Very Good
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.9 - Excellent within FIC range

2.56ct/G/SI1

Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

The diamond posted by Diamondseeker does look like a great deal and has a 0.8 HCA score (same as the stolen diamond). We are considering it, but we are pretty set on getting an upgrade on color as well (I or better). We are willing to go up to $20k if the value is there.

 

[SimoneDi]

ExcellentNut if you want to discuss man-made diamonds, please take it to Laboratory-Grown Diamonds /Man-Made Diamonds. I really think that you are missing the point that IGI greaded 'I" color is most likely a "J", same for the other characteristics.

 

[Skhii]

Hi ExcellentNut,
Would you mind sharing the (original Chicago-based?) vendor that you are considering purchasing from?

As for color, if the vendor can mimic GIA-grading conditions, have them place your IGI stone next to GIA stones and compare. You can also send the IGI stone to an independent appraiser for additional peace of mind. Obtain ASET, IS, and H&A images from the vendor and/or independent appraiser. Post them here if you would like feedback. Make sure you are able to get a full refund if the diamond does not match up to your expectations.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I wouldn't buy a natural diamond with very good for light return.

My thing is, the lab stones are priced too high for what they are. While you say it's an engagement ring, there are always circumstances that a ring might be sold. She might find one she likes better (larger, different color, different shape) 10 years from now. Someone could lose their job or have an illness and need the extra money. We see people sell diamonds all the time for various reasons. I kind of look at this like I do buying a car. I only buy highly reliable cars that have a good trade in value. Even though I don't consider a diamond an investment, it does have monetary value pretty much worldwide and it can potentially be sold for a good price if the quality of the stone is good. You'd get much less for the lab diamond. I just don't get overpaying for something that has less value. And these do not have the cut your original diamond did, so that would definitely be a loss.

I'll look at I color diamonds to see if there is anything that's a great deal, but the J is a great deal unless there is something we don't know about it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R240-35758Z645? 2.4 I VS1 $22,330 (no picture)

Had to include this other J...also $22k but 2.8 cts!!
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond..._round-EX-GIA-J-VS1-diamond-stock-15833-cert-

I'm afraid the very best deals are the J's from what I can find at the moment in the 2.4+ range.

 

[ac117]

I agree with others about buying a natural diamond but to each their own. Here's one that may be worth considering for the price, size and color...I'd confirm no negative effects from fluorescence and ask for an ideal scope although they're not known for providing them. Or you could take it to an appraiser:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08378905

 

[bmfang]

Would you mind sharing the (original Chicago-based?) vendor that you are considering purchasing from?

A quick Google for Chicago jewellers who sell lab grown diamonds returns quite a few options (these are the top 4 I found):

• Numined Diamonds
• Cottage Hill Diamonds
• Mon Ami Jewelers
• Windy City Diamonds

 

[Sunstorm]

In retail consumer purchases most things are subjective and so is your decision which you seem to have made already. People here have given you valid and quite objective reasons and arguments as to why just about not one person here would advise you to do what you are planning to do. People have actually given you wonderful advice and offered choices and help. If I were you, I would at least listen.

 

[gm89uk]

I hope you reserved the j vs2 stone while you considered, that really is the bargain of the week