Help me identify...

[Cehrabehra]

... types of fire. Yep, more fire talk. I love it!

Okay here are 4 pics from my stone... and I''ve numbered them.

#1 is what I consider pinfire... it has thousands of tiny little champagne bubble rainbow glitters popping over most of the stone, they''re very tiny and I think pic #1 shows them not great, but okay. Is that pinfire or something else?

#2 the blue flash in the upper right (also #3 has a yellow one in the middle left) is what I consider medium fire - does it have another name? These usually happen around the crown but also from the mains inside the table sometimes... they look like sparklers

#3 the big main you can kind of see red/orange/yellow... I don''t know what to call this ... it doesn''t flare out but you can slowly go through the rainbow of colors on a facet especially in indirect light. It isn''t a reflection. There is definitely a spectrum but it glides over the facet more subtly.

#4 this is what I consider broad flash. When I see these I can stop and watch the whole rainbow go by slowly but it''s not subtle, it''s almost blinding to look at.

Okay - so far all I hear about is pinfire and broadfire... these are four different types of fire I see in my stone... and none of them count for reflections or dust or inclusions. They are all refractions of light... can someone tell me what is what please?

 

[Cehrabehra]

ugh forgot the pic

 

[Cehrabehra]

here is another example of #3 but with two doing it - one toward blue and one toward red - they''re not reaching out they''re just spreading across the facet. I wouldn''t call them a flash but I think they fall under fire, no? so what is the name?

 

[Rhino]

Excellent demonstration Cehra.

Pic #1 reminds me of what is commonly seen in rectangular radiants too. Lots of tiny white flashes. What generally causes the differences from those to getting the small colored flashes you see in #2 and #3 is the strength/temperature of the light hitting the stone. A general rule of thumb is the stronger and more direct the lighting the more the diamond will function as a prism. In essence #1 and #2,3 could all be considered pin fire flash with the differences being the strength of the light hitting the diamond.

Is the lighting different from #1 to #2 & 3?

Good job.

 

[Rhino]

Actually looking at pics 1,2 & 3 again it appears the lighting is the same but tilting the stone caused it to catch and reflect stronger rays to the eye. Correct me if I''m wrong.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/7/2006 1:07:06 PM
Author: Rhino
Excellent demonstration Cehra.

Pic #1 reminds me of what is commonly seen in rectangular radiants too. Lots of tiny white flashes. What generally causes the differences from those to getting the small colored flashes you see in #2 and #3 is the strength/temperature of the light hitting the stone. A general rule of thumb is the stronger and more direct the lighting the more the diamond will function as a prism. In essence #1 and #2,3 could all be considered pin fire flash with the differences being the strength of the light hitting the diamond.

Is the lighting different from #1 to #2 & 3?

Good job.

actually no - all FOUR of those pics were taken at the exact same time in the exact same light. Ant the little tiny flashes in #1 aren''t white, they''re color and rainbow they''re just teensy tiny and are inside of the stone instead of poping off the stone.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/7/2006 1:15:34 PM
Author: Rhino
Actually looking at pics 1,2 & 3 again it appears the lighting is the same but tilting the stone caused it to catch and reflect stronger rays to the eye. Correct me if I''m wrong.

actually #4 is the same light too it just had such a huge corona of blue color coming from the facet... let me show you a full size pic - it''s pretty wow! lol

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 9/6/2006 9:06:30 PM
Author:Cehrabehra
... types of fire. Yep, more fire talk. I love it!

Okay here are 4 pics from my stone... and I''ve numbered them.

#1 is what I consider pinfire... it has thousands of tiny little champagne bubble rainbow glitters popping over most of the stone, they''re very tiny and I think pic #1 shows them not great, but okay. Is that pinfire or something else?

#2 the blue flash in the upper right (also #3 has a yellow one in the middle left) is what I consider medium fire - does it have another name? These usually happen around the crown but also from the mains inside the table sometimes... they look like sparklers

#3 the big main you can kind of see red/orange/yellow... I don''t know what to call this ... it doesn''t flare out but you can slowly go through the rainbow of colors on a facet especially in indirect light. It isn''t a reflection. There is definitely a spectrum but it glides over the facet more subtly.

#4 this is what I consider broad flash. When I see these I can stop and watch the whole rainbow go by slowly but it''s not subtle, it''s almost blinding to look at.

Okay - so far all I hear about is pinfire and broadfire... these are four different types of fire I see in my stone... and none of them count for reflections or dust or inclusions. They are all refractions of light... can someone tell me what is what please?

Cehrabehra fire in direct sunlight is bad for you.

The intensification of the suns rays by the diamond acting as an intense focusing unit can cause high frequency waves to pass thru the rear of your retina into your hyperthalmus and cause you to suffer from a rare disorder such as that afflicting our regular poster Pyramid, who has an equally extreme obsession to yours, except that in her case it plays out as a need to know everything about matural, cleavages and risks / causes of damage to diamonds.

By now the damage is probably done, but in future when looking at your diamonds in direct sunny daylight you must wear a blindfold - or if you are driving a car, then dark glasses.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The tiny white dots i pic 1 can only be inclusions or dust - they are not sparkles.

The broad flash of blue turns to vilioet - if you rolled the stone away from you it would have become very bright white, and then turned yellow and finally red until it disappeard.

If you read some of the links in my post half way down on this thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/yellow-diamonds-and-fire.50427/ about fire in colored diamonds, you can understand a lot more. The information is quite heavy and probably requires a few reads - but you are keenly interested C - so give it a try.

Happy to answer any questions after you have waded thru the heavy stuff.

 

[pyramid]

Date: 9/9/2006 1:30:53 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 9/6/2006 9:06:30 PM
Author:Cehrabehra
... types of fire. Yep, more fire talk. I love it!

Okay here are 4 pics from my stone... and I''ve numbered them.

#1 is what I consider pinfire... it has thousands of tiny little champagne bubble rainbow glitters popping over most of the stone, they''re very tiny and I think pic #1 shows them not great, but okay. Is that pinfire or something else?

#2 the blue flash in the upper right (also #3 has a yellow one in the middle left) is what I consider medium fire - does it have another name? These usually happen around the crown but also from the mains inside the table sometimes... they look like sparklers

#3 the big main you can kind of see red/orange/yellow... I don''t know what to call this ... it doesn''t flare out but you can slowly go through the rainbow of colors on a facet especially in indirect light. It isn''t a reflection. There is definitely a spectrum but it glides over the facet more subtly.

#4 this is what I consider broad flash. When I see these I can stop and watch the whole rainbow go by slowly but it''s not subtle, it''s almost blinding to look at.

Okay - so far all I hear about is pinfire and broadfire... these are four different types of fire I see in my stone... and none of them count for reflections or dust or inclusions. They are all refractions of light... can someone tell me what is what please?

Cehrabehra fire in direct sunlight is bad for you.

The intensification of the suns rays by the diamond acting as an intense focusing unit can cause high frequency waves to pass thru the rear of your retina into your hyperthalmus and cause you to suffer from a rare disorder such as that afflicting our regular poster Pyramid, who has an equally extreme obsession to yours, except that in her case it plays out as a need to know everything about matural, cleavages and risks / causes of damage to diamonds.

By now the damage is probably done, but in future when looking at your diamonds in direct sunny daylight you must wear a blindfold - or if you are driving a car, then dark glasses.

Very, very true.

You are doomed now Cehrabehra

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I love it that you have a sense of humour (with a u before the 'r') Pyramid

 

[pyramid]

Oh yes must spell it the way it was meant to be

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/9/2006 1:53:16 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The tiny white dots i pic 1 can only be inclusions or dust - they are not sparkles.

The broad flash of blue turns to vilioet - if you rolled the stone away from you it would have become very bright white, and then turned yellow and finally red until it disappeard.

boy, you don''t know my stone at all LOL Those tiny dots are not inclusions or dust and they are sparkles and they don''t just come in white.

And yes, I''m aware the broad flash travels through the spectrum, however it most absolutely does hit green at that intensity.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/9/2006 8:10:47 AM
Author: Pyramid

Very, very true.

You are doomed now Cehrabehra

of this I am certain... lol

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 9/7/2006 7:03:27 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 9/7/2006 1:07:06 PM


actually no - all FOUR of those pics were taken at the exact same time in the exact same light. Ant the little tiny flashes in #1 aren''t white, they''re color and rainbow they''re just teensy tiny and are inside of the stone instead of poping off the stone.

Your different looks have to do with the length of the dispersion at your eye. Refer to the chart below. In order to see dispersion, the flash must be larger than the pupil of your eye at the point where you see it. If it is shorter then we perceive it as white light. Evidently this is holding true for your camera''s aperature as well, so much so that the large flashes are easily discernable as colored light, but your pin flashes look white to the camera since they (the length of the dispersion) must be smaller than the aperature of the camera at the distance at which they were photographed.

So, where the light is really bent and the flashes long, you can slowly rock the stone and trace the dispersion through its various colors. Where they are short you catch glimpses of color, fewer as you hold the stone closer to your eyes and more when you hold it further away.

Wink[/quote]

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/9/2006 12:35:11 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 9/7/2006 7:03:27 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 9/7/2006 1:07:06 PM


actually no - all FOUR of those pics were taken at the exact same time in the exact same light. Ant the little tiny flashes in #1 aren''t white, they''re color and rainbow they''re just teensy tiny and are inside of the stone instead of poping off the stone.

Your different looks have to do with the length of the dispersion at your eye. Refer to the chart below. In order to see dispersion, the flash must be larger than the pupil of your eye at the point where you see it. If it is shorter then we perceive it as white light. Evidently this is holding true for your camera''s aperature as well, so much so that the large flashes are easily discernable as colored light, but your pin flashes look white to the camera since they (the length of the dispersion) must be smaller than the aperature of the camera at the distance at which they were photographed.

So, where the light is really bent and the flashes long, you can slowly rock the stone and trace the dispersion through its various colors. Where they are short you catch glimpses of color, fewer as you hold the stone closer to your eyes and more when you hold it further away.

Wink

[/quote]
Yes, you''ve done a great job with that Now... #1 is pinflash, correct? #4 is broad flash, obviously... what are #2 and #3? I get this refraction in #3 where the spectral colors move across the stone but there is no "flash" per se... and #2 is what I consider "typical" type flash which is what I see on rounds mostly but I get around my diamond as well. Or is that considered pinflash and the sparkles in #1 are something different?

 

[WinkHPD]

I think we use the names for opal, but I have never heard anyone actually name the types of dispersion in a diamond. In opal such names have a better application because they dramatically affect the price of the stones. This is not the case in diamonds, as a well cut stone will demand a premium regardless of the type of fire that you are seeing.

Wink

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/9/2006 1:24:15 PM
Author: Wink
I think we use the names for opal, but I have never heard anyone actually name the types of dispersion in a diamond. In opal such names have a better application because they dramatically affect the price of the stones. This is not the case in diamonds, as a well cut stone will demand a premium regardless of the type of fire that you are seeing.

Wink

you know, now that you mention it, the sparkles that I see inside of my diamond do remind me very much of a good opal. I wish I could have one of you guys look at it, it really has some bizarre qualities.