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Help me find the best Emerald Cut for 50-55K!!!

LuvStr8Tth

Rough_Rock
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Aug 30, 2011
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My good doctor friend is looking for an Emerald Cut diamond that is 3 carats plus and at least a G in color and VS1 in clarity.

He heard me talk about diamonds every day during residency when I was researching one for my then fiance, so he thinks I'm quite the expert in the subject. Although I'm pretty knowledgeable with cushion cuts (I ended up buying an AVC with a VC halo setting), I'm not too familiar with the finer details of an emerald cut.

From my quick search through PriceScope, it seems like Sarin numbers are the key with emerald cuts. Table and Depth 60-65%, Pavilion depth 45-50% and crown height of 12-15%? Is this pretty accurate?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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No. Emerald cuts are nothing like rounds. Numbers are meaningless

If they want an easy process and great customer service put them in touch with GOG and have them tell them that they want the brightest best performing stone they can find for their budget .

Alternately they can come here and we can help them.

Here are some nice contenders. JA has suspended ASETs till the 1st of January. But there is NO WAY I'd spend 50k on a stone without one. So I would force the issue.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323532
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-755552
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.20-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-380018 if eyeclean
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
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Messages
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Hi - sounds like your friend is looking for a lovely diamond. Hope we can all provide some useful advice to help them in their search.

The joy of fancy shape diamonds is that it really does come down to individual tastes and what you find appealing aesthetically. Because there are not the same rigid cut criteria like there are with round brilliants, these shapes allow a little bit more of what diamonds are intended to do…bring someone pleasure because they like how they look.

Having said that, I’ve carried a wide variety of shapes and sizes in emerald cuts, but if you want a bit of a trade perspective, here is what I tend to look for when buying emerald cuts for stock rather than for specific customer requirements.

Ratio (you can work this out by L/W):
1.3-1.5:1 is ok --- 1.4:1 is the ratio that I have a personal preference for, so I try to buy these when I can.

Depth 58-69% and table 58-69% are all fine – people tend to have their own preferences on whether they like a big or small table. I’m not overly fussed about this as long as the stone looks balanced.

Clarity – because you can see right into the stone, emerald cuts are quite unforgiving when it comes to clarity -- and it’s really tough to find eye-clean VS2 goods nowadays, so if your friend can afford VS1+ go for it; if not, try to find a VS2 with a light inclusion or one that you might be able to hide under a claw in the setting.

Another good rule of thumb for proportions is that ideally you want the keel length to be the same as the stone length, minus the stone width. A keel that is too short can indicate a dumpy stone (paying for extra weight that doesn’t benefit the look of the stone), while a keel that is too long can mean that it’s too shallow (losing lots of light to leakage). You also want to make sure that the keel is evenly centred in middle of the diamond.

Step cuts also show colour a bit more than brilliant cuts, so keep in mind that while the colour might be a bit hidden in an H or an I colour round brilliant, it will be slightly more noticeable in an emerald cut - - especially in larger carat sizes.

For the budget they have to work with, they should be able to find what they're looking for.
Hope this helps.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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ADN|1448956195|3955930 said:
Hi - sounds like your friend is looking for a lovely diamond. Hope we can all provide some useful advice to help them in their search.

The joy of fancy shape diamonds is that it really does come down to individual tastes and what you find appealing aesthetically. Because there are not the same rigid cut criteria like there are with round brilliants, these shapes allow a little bit more of what diamonds are intended to do…bring someone pleasure because they like how they look.

Having said that, I’ve carried a wide variety of shapes and sizes in emerald cuts, but if you want a bit of a trade perspective, here is what I tend to look for when buying emerald cuts for stock rather than for specific customer requirements.

Ratio (you can work this out by L/W):
1.3-1.5:1 is ok --- 1.4:1 is the ratio that I have a personal preference for, so I try to buy these when I can.

Depth 58-69% and table 58-69% are all fine – people tend to have their own preferences on whether they like a big or small table. I’m not overly fussed about this as long as the stone looks balanced.

Clarity – because you can see right into the stone, emerald cuts are quite unforgiving when it comes to clarity -- and it’s really tough to find eye-clean VS2 goods nowadays, so if your friend can afford VS1+ go for it; if not, try to find a VS2 with a light inclusion or one that you might be able to hide under a claw in the setting.

Another good rule of thumb for proportions is that ideally you want the keel length to be the same as the stone length, minus the stone width. A keel that is too short can indicate a dumpy stone (paying for extra weight that doesn’t benefit the look of the stone), while a keel that is too long can mean that it’s too shallow (losing lots of light to leakage). You also want to make sure that the keel is evenly centred in middle of the diamond.

Step cuts also show colour a bit more than brilliant cuts, so keep in mind that while the colour might be a bit hidden in an H or an I colour round brilliant, it will be slightly more noticeable in an emerald cut - - especially in larger carat sizes.

For the budget they have to work with, they should be able to find what they're looking for.
Hope this helps.


This is a very good post. I would just add a few things.

First and foremost, no matter what lab report you are using (and you should stick to GIA only on EC's as they are not sent to AGS) you CAN NOT buy a stone from the lab report alone. In fancy stones you have to buy based on performance and faceting. That means you have to see the stones, preferably in a video and in close images AND an ASET. All are part of the overall picture. GOG provides all of this.

Personally, I am fine with small tables on ECs like a but prefer tables above 64 (48-64 is fine with me). That said I've seen stones with 70 tables that I've liked. As ADN said, the stone has to be balanced.

I also prefer stones with a crown height of over 11% (and ideally with a crown over 14%). You won't find that on a lab report. You need a SARIN for that. Another reason why GOG is the preferred vendor for step cuts.

As with any stone, avoid very thin girdles. Also try to stick with girdles that don't have too much variation (so not Thin to Extremely Thick).
Color: the budget is a generous one. You should not have a problem sticking to stones above G color. Though if there is a fantastic H you may want to see it in person and see what you think. I personally would be happy with an H in a step cut. But color is intensely personal.

Finally, ratio is a very personal thing. But CAN affect spread. And with fancies, it's not carat weight you compare, it's spread (dimensions). a 2.8 EC can face up larger than a 3.0 depending on it's dimensions. So pay attention to spread over weight. And if you are going to try on some stones in person-- make sure you ask the dimensions of the stones that catch your eye and their ratios. Not just the carat weight.
 

LuvStr8Tth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
21
Thanks for the feedback!

Question: When looking at diamond pics like the one below, should I be avoiding the ones that appear dark since this is an indication of light leakage? Based on these photos, is it safe to assume that the 1 in the upper right would perform better than 2 or 3?
emeraldcut.jpg



This one seems like it's on the "darker" side: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.11-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-289630

This one looks nice except for the inclusion right smack in the middle: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323532

These two look pretty nice. I will ask for Sarin and ASET info for these
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-755552
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.20-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-380018

Regarding GOG, I recently found out that VC does not take any of their diamonds. This was an absolute shock to me since my AVC was set in a VC halo back in the day. I've also heard that LM does not either. This puts me in a difficult position since I am recommending VC for the setting to my friend. What are people doing with their GOG diamond nowadays?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
58,547
LuvStr8Tth|1448982126|3955984 said:
Thanks for the feedback!

Question: When looking at diamond pics like the one below, should I be avoiding the ones that appear dark since this is an indication of light leakage? Based on these photos, is it safe to assume that the 1 in the upper right would perform better than 2 or 3?
emeraldcut.jpg



This one seems like it's on the "darker" side: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.11-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-289630

This one looks nice except for the inclusion right smack in the middle: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323532

These two look pretty nice. I will ask for Sarin and ASET info for these
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.01-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-755552
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/3.20-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-380018

Regarding GOG, I recently found out that VC does not take any of their diamonds. This was an absolute shock to me since my AVC was set in a VC halo back in the day. I've also heard that LM does not either. This puts me in a difficult position since I am recommending VC for the setting to my friend. What are people doing with their GOG diamond nowadays?

People who want a nice setting with a GOG stone use Steven Kirsch. It is a sad situation for the consumer because I prefer Victor, but it is what it is. Steven is excellent, too. M2b here had her 5 ct AVC set by Steven and it is magnificent. On the other hand, the diamond can easily be bought through Victor. He (and other vendors) can access a lot of the stones you see on James Allen because they are owned by a diamond supplier. He can also do ASETs. That is the best option if you want Victor to set the diamond.

But I need to add, did Victor say he doesn't set any GOG diamonds? Because his policy on his site says he doesn't set August Vintage diamonds.

On your photo display, yes, we avoid the ones that show a lot of black reflection. #2 and 3 would definitely not be ones we would consider. You need the ASET for light return and leakage. You need to talk to Victor about sourcing the stone. I imagine there would be some cost involved for him to call in stones and pay shipping, etc. If there is a great stone at JA that Victor cannot access, then I would tell JA that you are wanting to order a $50k stone and will not do it without the ASET and see what they say. Maybe they will make exceptions on ASETs for high value stones. I can see why they might need to suspend it for thousands of requests for ASETs on under 1 ct stones for studs and that kind of thing for Christmas gifts.

Regarding measurements, I stay under 65 for the table but most love ECs with 60 or less with higher crowns. I can see the higher crowns in the video and don't personally need a Sarin for that. I do like the ASET, though, to check for leakage. Most will have some leakage, but you want to minimize it. Greater depth usually means smaller face up size, so I try to look at diameter very closely when comparing stones. He might be surprised that a 3 ct EC does not really appear all that large compared to a 3 ct round. I would really encourage him to consider H color in a stone that large to try to get a little more size and add some options. Going into D-F will mean a much smaller stone, so G-H is a very nice range and provides more options.

Oh, and I prefer a ratio closer to 1.3. I set my limit in searching for myself at 1.35. I absolutely would not go over 1.4. Please do not ask JA for ASETs yet. They will only allow 3, so wait and be sure of what the best 3 stones are before you ask. It needs to be narrowed down also if you are going to ask Victor to check on them.
 

edelweissmaedl

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VC just posted about a 3ct emerald on his site. Seems to match the wish list.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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LuvStr8Tth|1448982126|3955984 said:
When looking at diamond pics like the one below, should I be avoiding the ones that appear dark since this is an indication of light leakage?



No.
Leakage would show the background color, in this case a light gray.
Leakage is when the diamond acts like a window ... you just see right through it.
The black can only be reflection of the camera/lens.

Which diamond shows more black may be meaningless because you could change the macro lens (to a longer focal length) to allow the camera to be further from the diamond.
When you move the camera back a different diamond may show more or less black.

I realize this is a can of worms I'm opening ... but oh well.
I know about gem macrophotography and I'm sure what I am saying is correct.

screen_shot_2015-12-01_at_8.png
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ugh! I can't believe I forgot that diamond on Victor's site! I was thinking it was a lot higher in price for some reason.

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/gz5i55-3.05-f-vs1-emerald-cut

This makes it easy...lovely shape, nice 61 table. Already has a nice ASET image, and Victor can make the setting!

He made Mayk's beautiful setting with side baguettes, kimber's with french cut shank, and a 4 ct Emilya:

vcmayk.jpg

_35446.jpg

vc4ctecemilya.jpg
 

LuvStr8Tth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
21
Incredible find guys! He's got it reserved. That ASET image was amazing!
Thanks!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Great news! He'll get a gorgeous stone.
Can we ask for an update on setting choice and pictures when he has it?
 

egemnoel

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 29, 2015
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138
Excellent! Looking forward to see the finished product.
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
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LuvStr8Tth|1449082820|3956494 said:
Incredible find guys! He's got it reserved. That ASET image was amazing!
Thanks!


It is such a pleasure to work with Victor and that diamond is stunning!!! I can not wait to see your final setting! Please come back and share and hand shots too!!!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
58,547
Wow, what awesome news! I hope his wife knows how lucky she is, because that will be one top-of-the-line ring!!! :love:
 

Gypsy

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