Help me evaluate these OECs

[Dreamer_D]

I need to activate the old cut crew to help me evaluate this suite of OECs I recently got on eBay. I bought them hoping to reset them for a ring to celebrate my 20th anniversary!

I bought this ring because it has three classic OECs, later style cuts with proportions very similar to modern rounds but with teensy tiny tables and of course the classic OEC faceting. They are each about 5mm and the seller estimated 1.44cttw.

The Good

The diamonds are beautifully cut and well matched in proportions and color in the KL range. Almost perfectly matched which is very hard to find. They are also very clean with only a few very small inclusions visible with my loupe, so they are completely eye clean. They sparkle nicely.




It only fits my pinky finger, but apparently that is all the rage now (right @oldcutclubmember?)


Close ups. I have not cleaned them so they are still showing some dark from grime.


(The Bad and my questions to you in my next post)

 

[Dreamer_D]

The Bad

The seller disclosed that one of the side stones has a small chip and provided good macro pictures in advance showing the chip. I was ok with that. I can’t see it with my naked eye.


So why am I conflicted? Unfortunately, I discovered that the center stone also has some damage . There is a scrape on one of the crown facets. I can’t see it with my naked eye unless I really look hard. I don’t think it poses a durability risk.



My main concern is that the center stone also appears to have a very small crack near the girdle. It looks like possibly an internal feather that got bigger from a knock. I can’t be sure. It is very small and I couldn’t for the life of my get a good photo.

You can see it in the bottom of the stone here (second photo marks it in red)



And from the top.



This crack does concern me as it seems it could affect the durability. Neither was disclosed by the seller. I won’t read intent, but they are a small family-run pawn shop and don’t sell many diamonds from what I can see. I haven’t reached out to them yet.

Thoughts? What would you do?

 

[YadaYadaYada]

What are you planning on doing with them? Did you get a crazy deal on the ring that you could justify keeping them? Will they be mind clean for you in the long run?

I bought a ring with a diamond that had some girdle damage and I reset it into a bezel ring. Of course it’s going to live there forever now but at least the girdle is protected.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think it was a good deal. Jewels by Grace has a similar suite in a detailed antique platinum mounting for $5800 -- how much of that value is the stones and how much the diamonds?? But it's ebay, prices should be lower than retail. And when I paid it felt fair for a suite with only 1 damaged stone, not two...

I want to set them into a protective mounting, like a bezel or faux bezel, because I wanted a low, comfortable ring I can wear when my three stone feels a little OTT. Maybe a 3 stone or maybe with a couple of colored gems for a five stone. So I could likely cover the damage.

Maybe like these styles:





Mind clean... probably? I can't see any of it with my eyes. But the crack bothers me because it might affect structural integrity. And maybe it affects my feelings about the "value" of the piece (not just money, but other types of value too).

 

[LightBright]

I have a few thoughts.

The diamonds are nicely cut, I like the tiny tables and high crowns, and the koizibe. If they are lively and have personality, and you enjoy them in all light conditions (eg if you like what they look like on your hand) then that’s an important thing.

I never buy anything unless the cost reflects the condition. I tend to look for bargains. If the center stone has an undisclosed crack (a natural maybe) on the girdle and an undisclosed chip on a facet, then I feel like you are within reason to tell the dealer and see if there can be a discount applied. Using the photos you share here, I’d suggest engaging with the vendor to request a discount because the center stone has undisclosed issues.

The diamonds are likely chipped from the original cutting process. I think they are quite old diamonds and cut with cruder tools (they are not perfectly symmetrical etc.) versus for example the more technical cutting of your profile picture diamond. After seeing many antique diamonds, I think chips and girdle weirdness is typical of these older diamonds. I do not think they pose a risk in setting. I do think they are not perfect and they were worn “not perfect”. Their performance and character should make up for the microscopic imperfections, if not return.

BTW, Mind clean might very well be an issue for you. For people with really exacting standards (I think you have exacting standards), you might want to reason with yourself to see if these diamonds will always bother you, or will they make you happy. Like I said, I tend to forgive diamonds if I know I got a great deal on the final product, eg you will get a three stone pinky ring with really old and pretty diamonds for X amount and it will be a happy addition to your collection. Would it fit in? If you won’t love it and embrace it for what it is, return.

 

[LightBright]

I recently bought a small Peruzzi diamond with a chip on the facet at the girdle and crown. It is set into a ring with an 18k shank and platinum basket. It was a bargain found on EBay UK, and I COULD have asked for an even further discount but as is my custom I buy immediately if what I find is rare and fairly priced. I do not notice the chip at all, I notice that the stone is a really old cool cut set serendipitously into a slightly post Edwardian setting (yellow and white which I don’t have in my collection), and the light return is typical of a Peruzzi. Which is different from my other old stones. It makes me happy to own a unique little gem with personality, slightly (not noticeably) chipped and all, but I also didn’t pay much for it AND it is already set.

 

[lulu_ma]

How do the stones compare in price to similar Ivy and Rose ones?

 

[Dreamer_D]

How do the stones compare in price to similar Ivy and Rose ones?

Mine were about 1/3 to 1/2 the price per stone, though I don’t know their actual weight or color or clarity, but that’s my closest guess going off the estimate and my own observations… which obviously is a big part of why I bought the ring! I could not (would not) purchase stones this size for the going rate I see at the usual retailers.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have a few thoughts.

The diamonds are nicely cut, I like the tiny tables and high crowns, and the koizibe. If they are lively and have personality, and you enjoy them in all light conditions (eg if you like what they look like on your hand) then that’s an important thing.

I never buy anything unless the cost reflects the condition. I tend to look for bargains. If the center stone has an undisclosed crack (a natural maybe) on the girdle and an undisclosed chip on a facet, then I feel like you are within reason to tell the dealer and see if there can be a discount applied. Using the photos you share here, I’d suggest engaging with the vendor to request a discount because the center stone has undisclosed issues.

I think you are right that the stones are older than I first surmised. I’ve spent a little more time with the ring today, and when I pulled the box out of my bra at the hair salon () I also noticed that they are not round! Little tiny cushions. There is something very endearing about their shape. The two sides are more cushiony and the center a little more wonky but still akin. About 15 years ago I had a similar stone that I really loved. Slight cushion shape, flatter crown that you see on an OMC, super tiny table, kozibe galore, and it was a great performer. These stones are a bit smaller so not as flashy but I’m still very impressed with the cut. They hold their own in all the lighting I have been in.

I did reach out to the seller today and they offered a small price adjustment more as a gesture of good faith than anything else. I understand their perspective on the situation ( the sale price was already low and they do need to make a profit), so I’m fine with their response. I haven’t replied as I want to sleep on things.

The diamonds are likely chipped from the original cutting process. I think they are quite old diamonds and cut with cruder tools (they are not perfectly symmetrical etc.) versus for example the more technical cutting of your profile picture diamond. After seeing many antique diamonds, I think chips and girdle weirdness is typical of these older diamonds. I do not think they pose a risk in setting. I do think they are not perfect and they were worn “not perfect”. Their performance and character should make up for the microscopic imperfections, if not return.

Very interesting! I went to see a jeweler today to get their opinion on the diamonds and his view seems consistent with yours. He thought the “crack” was internal to the diamond and likely originated at a natural on the girdle. He did not think it posed much risk to the diamond. He wasn’t too concerned about the chips either from a longevity perspective. We did get to look at the diamond on a screen as he examined it under a fancy microscope, and he confirmed the diamonds are very nice quality, very clean internally and of nice color (or rather, lack of color). I felt very reassured by the visit and actually was glad to learn more about their shop too as I need a new local jeweler. Tomorrow I am planning to visit a local pawn shop I frequent, who also do jewelry repairs, to see if they have anything to add given their greater familiarity with old cuts and pricing on the secondary market. I also want to see about the cost of an appraisal as I would really like an opinion of the diamond specs too.

BTW, Mind clean might very well be an issue for you. For people with really exacting standards (I think you have exacting standards), you might want to reason with yourself to see if these diamonds will always bother you, or will they make you happy. Like I said, I tend to forgive diamonds if I know I got a great deal on the final product, eg you will get a three stone pinky ring with really old and pretty diamonds for X amount and it will be a happy addition to your collection. Would it fit in? If you won’t love it and embrace it for what it is, return.

I am definitely exacting though I am also very frugal so a deal matters to me a lot. I can be slow to warm up to luxury purchases, which is why I like to sit on decisions for a few days in cases like this, and get the opinions of others. I feel much better knowing the center diamond is not at risk of crumbling before my very eyes And spending more time with the stones is making me fall in love with them a little. I have been calling them the three little piggies.

My love of antique diamonds is not about perfection, it is about a love of the antique craft and the history of the rock. This setting is newer, but I think these diamonds might even be from before the turn of the last century, and it is amazing to think they survived this long. I think I can forgive a little imperfection after such a long life. Especially since I can’t see it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

T

I recently bought a small Peruzzi diamond with a chip on the facet at the girdle and crown. It is set into a ring with an 18k shank and platinum basket. It was a bargain found on EBay UK, and I COULD have asked for an even further discount but as is my custom I buy immediately if what I find is rare and fairly priced. I do not notice the chip at all, I notice that the stone is a really old cool cut set serendipitously into a slightly post Edwardian setting (yellow and white which I don’t have in my collection), and the light return is typical of a Peruzzi. Which is different from my other old stones. It makes me happy to own a unique little gem with personality, slightly (not noticeably) chipped and all, but I also didn’t pay much for it AND it is already set.

do you have any pictures posted anywhere? Your ring sounds amazing. And I would also be fine with a chip on such a rare diamond.

 

[lulu_ma]

Mine were about 1/3 to 1/2 the price per stone, though I don’t know their actual weight or color or clarity, but that’s my closest guess going off the estimate and my own observations… which obviously is a big part of why I bought the ring! I could not (would not) purchase stones this size for the going rate I see at the usual retailers.

Sounds like the price was right! As long as the girdles are protected, I would personally keep these.

The oecs on my 5 stone have little nibbles but love that ring.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Sounds like the price was right! As long as the girdles are protected, I would personally keep these.

The oecs on my 5 stone have little nibbles but love that ring.

Now I need to go hunt down your five stone!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Sorry for the delay, had to go to work lol!

I say if you are going to bezel them or otherwise put them into a protective setting and you think you will feel they are safe from further damage, then I would keep them. I am very picky about chips but when I bezeled mine it made it mind clean for me. If that’s the case for you too then I would keep these diamonds, it sounds like you got them at a good price and they are pretty!

 

[lulu_ma]

Now I need to go hunt down your five stone!

It’s my oec/ruby one. No thread

 

[Dreamer_D]

It’s my oec/ruby one. No thread

Love it! Am I correct that the rubies are slightly cushiony and the diamonds are more round? Asking bc I’m thinking about how I might make a five stone and I’m thinking about the shape I might go with for the two cored gems— my cushiony diamonds with rounds or maybe step cuts I do t think I can match the shapes.

 

[RRfromR]

Do you absolutely love it or still have doubts? Are you comfortable wearing a pinky?
For me, a bargain is not a bargain unless I really love it. Affordable trilogies are so hard to find but they do show up. I have two, one is 1.25 the other 2.7 and they are both in great condition, VS clarity, and they were both under 5k. That chip would bother me, especially if it's visible with the naked eye and resetting un bezel is expensive.
If you are not in love with it, return.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Sorry for the delay, had to go to work lol!

I say if you are going to bezel them or otherwise put them into a protective setting and you think you will feel they are safe from further damage, then I would keep them. I am very picky about chips but when I bezeled mine it made it mind clean for me. If that’s the case for you too then I would keep these diamonds, it sounds like you got them at a good price and they are pretty!

I have been wearing them around the house and the problem areas are so small. Like maybe 0.1-0.2mm? Just minute. It makes me feel better to just look at it with my eyes and remember how old they are.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Do you absolutely love it or still have doubts? Are you comfortable wearing a pinky?
For me, a bargain is not a bargain unless I really love it. Affordable trilogies are so hard to find but they do show up. I have two, one is 1.25 the other 2.7 and they are both in great condition, VS clarity, and they were both under 5k. That chip would bother me, especially if it's visible with the naked eye and resetting un bezel is expensive.
If you are not in love with it, return.

I appreciate your perspective. I never planned to keep this setting and bought them as project stones as the price was so good for such well cut diamonds, even with them being imperfect. It just happens to fit my pinky, but no, I don’t want a pinky ring.

I am feeling ok with the chips! I’ve never come across another suite of old cuts with the cut style I prefer in the price range I want, so I’m feeling good about it.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

I have a few thoughts.

The diamonds are nicely cut, I like the tiny tables and high crowns, and the koizibe. If they are lively and have personality, and you enjoy them in all light conditions (eg if you like what they look like on your hand) then that’s an important thing.

I never buy anything unless the cost reflects the condition. I tend to look for bargains. If the center stone has an undisclosed crack (a natural maybe) on the girdle and an undisclosed chip on a facet, then I feel like you are within reason to tell the dealer and see if there can be a discount applied. Using the photos you share here, I’d suggest engaging with the vendor to request a discount because the center stone has undisclosed issues.

The diamonds are likely chipped from the original cutting process. I think they are quite old diamonds and cut with cruder tools (they are not perfectly symmetrical etc.) versus for example the more technical cutting of your profile picture diamond. After seeing many antique diamonds, I think chips and girdle weirdness is typical of these older diamonds. I do not think they pose a risk in setting. I do think they are not perfect and they were worn “not perfect”. Their performance and character should make up for the microscopic imperfections, if not return.

BTW, Mind clean might very well be an issue for you. For people with really exacting standards (I think you have exacting standards), you might want to reason with yourself to see if these diamonds will always bother you, or will they make you happy. Like I said, I tend to forgive diamonds if I know I got a great deal on the final product, eg you will get a three stone pinky ring with really old and pretty diamonds for X amount and it will be a happy addition to your collection. Would it fit in? If you won’t love it and embrace it for what it is, return.

I agree with a lot of what @LightBright has already stated including the mind clean issue. Then I read your response after seeing your jeweler about the crack. It sounds like you got great, reassuring news from the jeweler!

I think that the most of the stones in my 5 stone with the cushiony OECs/late OMCs are probably from the same time period as the stones in your 3 stone ring. They appear quite similar in shape and faceting. And I actually went through a very similar dilemma as you when I first received it! When I got the ring and looked at it with my loupe, I saw that pretty much all of the stones had chips and nibbles on the girdle that wasn't necessarily said outright when I bought it. I was told that the clarities varied from VS-SI with no visible inclusions but I didn't realize that the main issues regarding the the clarity would be chips and nibbles. One of the smallest stone does have a pretty big cloud that I would actually put it at SI2/I1. The chips and the nibbles don't bother me, I can't see them without a loupe. But the big cloud did, kind of like your "crack". The cloud was mostly hidden by setting/half bezel at the end and also hard to see when the ring is on the finger as it was at the very end of the ring with the adjoining finger covering most of the cloud. I didn't get as a great deal on it as you did but I did get a decent deal. I had a small return window so I mulled it over. I decided that a 3+ ctw old cuts of this age with stonesin the g-i range is extremely rare and something that I most likely would not come across anytime soon. Even if I did, it most likely will be at a price that I would not consider to be fair. And most importantly, I really loved the stones and the presence and the look of the entire ring as a whole. Is the one stone with the cloud completely mind clean? Admittedly no, not completely, and I do think I will try to find a replacement stone for if I do end up resetting the whole ring down the line. But all in all, I think I at least got a fair price for it and I really love 4 of the stones.

So if I were in your position and got similar reassuring news tomorrow from the pawn shop as you did from the jeweler, I would most likely just take the modest price adjustment and keep the ring (since it appears that the stones are great performers!).


And YES!!! Come join the pinky ring crew But in seriousness, I think a 5 stone with colored gems sounds like an excellent idea!

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Right, you make a good point about age, sometimes I think we expect too much from diamonds that are so old, in the pursuit of perfection buyers can be a bit unforgiving.

Anyways, it sounds like you’re keeping them and I’m excited to see what they end up becoming!

 

[lulu_ma]

Love it! Am I correct that the rubies are slightly cushiony and the diamonds are more round? Asking bc I’m thinking about how I might make a five stone and I’m thinking about the shape I might go with for the two cored gems— my cushiony diamonds with rounds or maybe step cuts I do t think I can match the shapes.

I do think the rubies are very slightly oblong. I’m away this weekend without that ring-but I will confirm for you when I get home.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I cleaned my rings and they look sparkly

 

[Dreamer_D]

I agree with a lot of what @LightBright has already stated including the mind clean issue. Then I read your response after seeing your jeweler about the crack. It sounds like you got great, reassuring news from the jeweler!

I think that the most of the stones in my 5 stone with the cushiony OECs/late OMCs are probably from the same time period as the stones in your 3 stone ring. They appear quite similar in shape and faceting. And I actually went through a very similar dilemma as you when I first received it! When I got the ring and looked at it with my loupe, I saw that pretty much all of the stones had chips and nibbles on the girdle that wasn't necessarily said outright when I bought it. I was told that the clarities varied from VS-SI with no visible inclusions but I didn't realize that the main issues regarding the the clarity would be chips and nibbles. One of the smallest stone does have a pretty big cloud that I would actually put it at SI2/I1. The chips and the nibbles don't bother me, I can't see them without a loupe. But the big cloud did, kind of like your "crack". The cloud was mostly hidden by setting/half bezel at the end and also hard to see when the ring is on the finger as it was at the very end of the ring with the adjoining finger covering most of the cloud. I didn't get as a great deal on it as you did but I did get a decent deal. I had a small return window so I mulled it over. I decided that a 3+ ctw old cuts of this age with stonesin the g-i range is extremely rare and something that I most likely would not come across anytime soon. Even if I did, it most likely will be at a price that I would not consider to be fair. And most importantly, I really loved the stones and the presence and the look of the entire ring as a whole. Is the one stone with the cloud completely mind clean? Admittedly no, not completely, and I do think I will try to find a replacement stone for if I do end up resetting the whole ring down the line. But all in all, I think I at least got a fair price for it and I really love 4 of the stones.

So if I were in your position and got similar reassuring news tomorrow from the pawn shop as you did from the jeweler, I would most likely just take the modest price adjustment and keep the ring (since it appears that the stones are great performers!).


And YES!!! Come join the pinky ring crew But in seriousness, I think a 5 stone with colored gems sounds like an excellent idea!

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story! Obviously I can relate. And it makes me feel more comfortable with my decision. That plus I cleaned my diamonds and these new ones are sparkle monsters. And I thought they were about the same color as my big old cut but now that they are clean they look whiter!? I would like to get an appraisal to know for sure.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story! Obviously I can relate. And it makes me feel more comfortable with my decision. That plus I cleaned my diamonds and these new ones are sparkle monsters. And I thought they were about the same color as my big old cut but now that they are clean they look whiter!? I would like to get an appraisal to know for sure.

I think if you decide to go with step cut gemstones these type of settings would work to protect the OECs and keep the ring low to the finger!

 

[Dreamer_D]

@oldcutclubmember love those examples and I have been thinking along the same lines. Here are some other inspiration rings I have saved with rounds.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

@oldcutclubmember love those examples and I have been thinking along the same lines. Here are some other inspiration rings I have saved with rounds.

Such good ones! My favorites are the first 2! The gallery on the 2nd one reminds me a bit of George’s original setting!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Such good ones! My favorites are the first 2! The gallery on the 2nd one reminds me a bit of George’s original setting!

Me toooooo I am sad sometimes that I sold that setting, but it couldn't be resized to fit. I would love another true antique mounting. It was fairly common for three 5mm stones to be set together. It doesn't feel impossible to find something antique for these diamonds! I am keeping my eyes peeled. It is my next project --figuring out a setting for these puppies.

 

[oldcutclubmember]

Me toooooo I am sad sometimes that I sold that setting, but it couldn't be resized to fit. I would love another true antique mounting. It was fairly common for three 5mm stones to be set together. It doesn't feel impossible to find something antique for these diamonds! I am keeping my eyes peeled. It is my next project --figuring out a setting for these puppies.

Keeping my fingers for you to find something antique!

 

[LightBright]

I cleaned my rings and they look sparkly

Oh Wow they are so sparkly and they are a great size! It’s going to be amazing ring if you make it a five stone, but even with these three diamonds they are a lovely size.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Oh Wow they are so sparkly and they are a great size! It’s going to be amazing ring if you make it a five stone, but even with these three diamonds they are a lovely size.

I agree! I wore them out for errands today and I was really pleased with the hand presence. I was liking it on my left hand next to my ering, it just felt so lux and I liked being able to see all my diamonds in one glance

I am pondering whether I want to keep it a thee stone or go for a five. I like the idea of more hand presence but I also think these three alone have a nice presence and I wonder if a five stone won’t be as comfortable to wear. Actually I’m kind of enjoying the setting they are in right now. Happy it fits my pinky and I can enjoy the diamonds while I make up my mind!