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Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matter?

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Hello,

I have been doing some searches online and came across two pretty nice loose diamonds. They are both:
- Graded by GIA
- Round brilliant
- Triple X (Excellent in Cut, Polish, and Symmetry)
- No flourescence
- 1.02 carat
- VS2 clarity

The main difference is that one is an E color grade, the other F. The price differential is about $1,000. I want the best bang for the buck of course. But, more importantly, does it look brilliant and does it give maximum 'bling' when it is on a ring? I felt like I can tell the color difference when I see E vs. F in person. (However, I cannot tell between D and E color grades).

I used some AGA cut class screening tool and the E-color stone came out with total grade "1A". The F-color stone had "1B".

The specs are shown below:

1.02ct F-color:

Weight: 1.02 carat
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
% Depth: 60.4
% Table: 57
Dimensions: 6.50-6.54x3.94 mm
Fluorescence: None
Polish: Excel.
Symmetry: Excel.
Comments: Girdle: MED
Cut: EXCL

Inclusions & more details on dimensions:
1.02%20ct%20F.jpg

1.02ct E-color:

Weight: 1.02 carat
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
% Depth: 62.1
% Table: 54
Dimensions: 6.43-6.46x4.00 mm
Fluorescence: None
Polish: Excel.
Symmetry: Excel.
Comments: -
Cut: EXCL

Inclusions & more details on dimension:
1.02%20ct%20E.jpg

Now -- I have seen some D's before with a LOT of inclusions -- and I imagine the inclusions may reflect lights differently and negatively impact the brilliance. Is that a good assumption?

Btw these 2 stones. The F-color stone seems to have less inclusions on the main facet. The E-color one has some crytals on the main facet - which worries me. Again, the AGA tool gave the E-color one a overal grade of "1A" vs. "1B" for the F-color stone.

Which stone is a better buy, and why? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I will eat out less to save money for the better stone when price differential is $1,000. However, is the E really worth the money and a better, more brilliant stone?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Both look promising from the numbers.

Inclusion should not be a factor for a VS2 as it is most likely eye-clean for that clarity grade.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Inclusions in VS2 stones don't mean all that much.

I like the F better. Still totally colorless, lower price, and I like the longer LGF ratio (just my taste), it will be a *very* bright stone most likely.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,535
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Haha and I prefer the E - slightly higher crown and fatter arrows (assuming it's a 75/80 difference, not 77/78 thanks to rounding, which is admittedly w/o pics just that - an assumption!) I imagine the E will be less brilliant (white light return) though - fewer but bigger flashes of white & colour.

Tastes vary!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Yssie|1303947218|2906581 said:
Haha and I prefer the E - slightly higher crown and fatter arrows (assuming it's a 75/80 difference, not 77/78 thanks to rounding, which is admittedly w/o pics just that - an assumption!) I imagine the E will be less brilliant (white light return) though - fewer but bigger flashes of white & colour.

Tastes vary!
hee hee. Indeed. And yes, assuming the rounding is more extreme. Pics would be nice. But is that worth an extra $1000 to you Yssie?

I have learned I prefer the thinner arrows and brightness afforded by the longer lgfs. Unfortunately, my diamond has short lgfs, but I shall survive ;))
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,535
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Dreamer_D|1303950034|2906618 said:
Yssie|1303947218|2906581 said:
Haha and I prefer the E - slightly higher crown and fatter arrows (assuming it's a 75/80 difference, not 77/78 thanks to rounding, which is admittedly w/o pics just that - an assumption!) I imagine the E will be less brilliant (white light return) though - fewer but bigger flashes of white & colour.

Tastes vary!
hee hee. Indeed. And yes, assuming the rounding is more extreme. Pics would be nice. But is that worth an extra $1000 to you Yssie?

I have learned I prefer the thinner arrows and brightness afforded by the longer lgfs. Unfortunately, my diamond has short lgfs, but I shall survive ;))

Haha fair enough. For an Ering - to me, yeah, worth it, but then I'd be buying w/ pics and scans and... so...

Yes, I imagine it's not too much of a hardship to look past that particular deficiency in your own stone!
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,539
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Yssie|1303947218|2906581 said:
Haha and I prefer the E - slightly higher crown and fatter arrows (assuming it's a 75/80 difference, not 77/78 thanks to rounding, which is admittedly w/o pics just that - an assumption!) I imagine the E will be less brilliant (white light return) though - fewer but bigger flashes of white & colour.

Tastes vary!
me too!! + a smaller table.. :appl:
 

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Thanks everybody for the input. I guess I am still a 'newbie' as I had to look up "LGF" :rodent:

So, it sounds like the issue of inclusions does not really matter? For some reason I just thought they would affect the way light goes into the diamond or reflect within, so it turns me off to see inclusions on the Table Facet.

In terms of buying online, is it pretty standard to ask for close-up photos & some sort of ideal scope image (to see leakage)??

Many brick & mortar wholesale places won't even send me GIA certs, ask me to go in first. Some online places do not give up GIA certs either, but most do. What kind of photos/images should I ask for? Will they show the brilliance if I ask them to put the 2 side-by-side?
 

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

I forgot to mention. I did HCA calculations on them: Score of 1.4 for E and 0.8 for F. Both have the same grades in all categories and all are excellent except for spread (diameter for weight) which is the supposedly least impt catg. out of all 4?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

VS2 inclusions should not matter, but you could always ask the vendor to double-check.

if the vendor will provide an idealscope image and/or regular images that would be great!
 

yrrp3738

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
127
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

I vote for "E". I like the proportion and HCA numbers. The crystal should not be problem.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

When buying online it is nice to see photos and if possible and IS image, though for me, if the stoen scores under 2 on the HCA and has a GIA EX for cut or an AGS0 for cut, that is enough.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

are these online or can you see them in person? you could always get both shipped to an appraiser to see what you like the best?
 

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Hmm...I wonder if they would ship both - because I have to pay for the diamond before he would ship it. I don't have that much money...LOL :saint:

Anyway I called the jewler up and asked for his "professional" opinion. He said:

"...both are ideal cuts, with hearts & arrows. Personally, I would go with F because it is a good F, borderline E. VS2 is better (I think), and less money. Also, the F looks bigger when they are put side-by-side (not by a lot)..."

NOTE: Both are VS2's...I am not sure what he was talking about in that regard.

Then, I asked him kindly for a photo. He said a photo wouldn't do justice. But, I insisted anyway saying that it may help us decide. So, he emailed me...check it out:

Manhattan-20110428-00094.jpg

The F is on the right. For whatever reason, at this angle - the F DOES look bigger. Then again, is it just the angle? Or is it because of the proportions? :???:

And, what's the black stuff? Is that a reflection of his Blackberry and himself? So confused!

Thoughts?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Tye black is reflection from the camera. Both diamonds look great in the photos. The angle is making one look bigger. I think what he means about the F being a "better VS2" is that it has less noticable inclusions for its clarity grade.

My vote is for the F still. But flip a coin ;))
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

can you get a 'head on' shot of both?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

slg47|1304034148|2907453 said:
can you get a 'head on' shot of both?
Why? Just curious.

The size difference is actually only .05mm. NOT something the eye can pick up even in a calibrated head on shot. The only thing I can think of is that the brightness of the F (shallow crown, longer lgf) might cause the illusion that it is bigger.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Dreamer_D|1304034644|2907461 said:
slg47|1304034148|2907453 said:
can you get a 'head on' shot of both?
Why? Just curious.

The size difference is actually only .05mm. NOT something the eye can pick up even in a calibrated head on shot. The only thing I can think of is that the brightness of the F (shallow crown, longer lgf) might cause the illusion that it is bigger.
that might help her decide, to have both at the same orientation?
 

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

I got more photos!!! Guess which one is the F? WHich one seems better?

TOp view:
1.02RD-TOP.jpg

BOttom View:
1.02RD-PAVLN.jpg
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,535
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Looks like we've got some rounding afterall, Dreamer..


puff - truly, flip a coin - or go with your jeweller's preference, as w/ the stones in-hand he/she is in the best position to judge! More still photos aren't going to tell us anything that will help you decide.


I've changed my vote btw, seeing your pics, I'll choose the cheaper F too.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Yesh, they look identical so save the money and get the F.
 

puffwei

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Help me decide on an E or F 1.02ct - Do inclusions matte

Howdy! My bling is here! We ended up choosing the F. It's a bit more difficult than I thought to take photos. Here's a couple shots from opening it from the packet:

B-Square%20on%20Blue3%20(right%20side%20up)%20-%20cropped.jpg B-Square%20on%20Blue2%20(bottom%20side%20up)%20-%20cropped.jpg

Here's a couple more shots after I learned how to unlock the tweezers:

B-Square%20on%20Tweeesers%20(wrong%20way%20holding)%20-%20cropped.jpg B-Square%20on%20Tweeesers%20(close%20up%20looking%20down)%20-%20cropped.jpg

Also, I finally got a fuzzy scope image print out with the shipment (kind of worries me)

scope.jpg

And, the Sarin #'s - which I asked for before - but he refused to give me (or dodged the question)

sarin.jpg

NOW - I am thinking about going to an independent appraiser - any thoughts on that?

My main concern is insurance - do I need to get insurance for the bling while I decide within the 30-day return policy period??? Do appraisers have their own insurance? I want to go to one who can do appraisal while I wait. Still, having something expensive around is a bit weird for me.

Any advice on proper insurance and protection? Thanks in advance!
 
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