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Help me choose a replacement diamond from JA

emac11 said:
Interestingly, James Allen just called me and said "I noticed you have this diamond on reserve, and it is a color upgrade from your current diamond. Due to that, you may be stuck with the balance." I said "Well the cost is about the same" and she said "Well that cost is for the same kind replacement, and this diamond isn't the same kind replacement." Ugh... Depending on what the balance is I may go for it anyway, but it's annoying nonetheless.
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OP, please have a conversation with them about what is exactly the “kind and alike” diamond replacement value. I would ask them particularly to consider the True Hearts label. The replacement value is not exactly the retail value. It’s the jewelers cost plus a certain percentage premium.
 
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Then the woman from James Allen emailed me a list of what she considered were "same kind replacements" and they're all "Excellent" cuts, while mine was a "True Hearts Ideal" cut. :angryfire:
 
I understand there are rules but where in the rules is it fair they can discount the true H&A aspect and say any GIA I VS1 is equivalent?

There was a premium paid for that aspect. Since JA does not have one in stock then request they use the WF ACA I scoped earlier to establish value. It's slightly bigger but they can take price per carat weight and adjust to your stone weight. Will still land you in $5k range.

And yes, JA is 2x original purchase on upgrade policy.
 
I’m not familiar with JM... do they offer a cash-out option? My insurance, USAA, has that if desired instead of a replacement diamond.
 
ILikeShiny said:
I’m not familiar with JM... do they offer a cash-out option? My insurance, USAA, has that if desired instead of a replacement diamond.
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They don’t. JM offers a replacement policy. As long as the process is followed and there is a rep that knows what they are doing, it’s pretty straight forward.

What JM needs to do is send an invoice to JM that says:

Our current estimate of JA True hearts replacement for a stone that is 0.83ct I VS1 GIAxxx is $X value. Because they don’t have a comparable stone in stock, they have to estimate the value based on how they would price a new stone with the same grading report.

Once JM approves the claim, they will send a check to JA. OP can then choose to apply the amount toward any stone in stock.

Whoever is dealing with OPs request doesn’t know what they are doing. I would escalate.

True Hearts is the true differentiator here. OP is the TH mark on your insurance policy?
 
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:mrgreen2:
SimoneDi said:
What JM needs to do is send an invoice to JM that says:

Our current estimate of JM True hearts replacement for a stone that is 0.83ct I VS1 GIAxxx is $X value. Because they don’t have a comparable stone in stock, they have to estimate the value based on how they would price a new stone with the same grading report.
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I think you mixed some JM’s, but I got your point! :mrgreen2:
 
SimoneDi said:
They don’t. JM offers a replacement policy. As long as the process is followed and there is a rep that knows what they are doing, it’s pretty straight forward.

What JM needs to do is send an invoice to JM that says:

Our current estimate of JM True hearts replacement for a stone that is 0.83ct I VS1 GIAxxx is $X value. Because they don’t have a comparable stone in stock, they have to estimate the value based on how they would price a new stone with the same grading report.

Once JM approves the claim, they will send a check to JA. OP can then choose to apply the amount toward any stone in stock.

Whoever is dealing with OPs request doesn’t know what they are doing. I would escalate.

True Hearts is the true differentiator here. OP is the TH mark on your insurance policy?
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FYI, nobody from JM has yet said they wouldn't approve this diamond. Just someone from JA said they MAY not and I may get stuck with the balance of it. I have responded to the person from JA and emphasized that these diamonds she showed me were not True Hearts and my diamond was. But I think the fight will be more with JM than JA, wouldn't it? You all would know better than me though.

I don't know by looking at my insurance policy online if the TH mark is on it, but I have to imagine it was on since JA sent the appraisal to them.
 
emac11 said:
FYI, nobody from JM has yet said they wouldn't approve this diamond. Just someone from JA said they MAY not and I may get stuck with the balance of it. I have responded to the person from JA and emphasized that these diamonds she showed me were not True Hearts and my diamond was. But I think the fight will be more with JM than JA, wouldn't it? You all would know better than me though.

I don't know by looking at my insurance policy online if the TH mark is on it, but I have to imagine it was on since JA sent the appraisal to them.
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There is no fight to be had here. JA should not try to submit a different stone for a replacement. JM would decline an F color upgrade, irrespective of value of who the vendor is.

As I said before, they need to submit a replacement assessment based on your original stone and considering the TH designation (this is very important, double check that it is on the insurance evaluation). Let’s say the replacement would cost $4k for example. Once JM approves it, then you can apply the value toward any stone.
 
Below is the response from the woman at James Allen. I'm confused why she is even trying to choose the replacement stone for me though.

Thank you for your response. Widening our search I was able to find two potential options that while slightly different in color and clarity, they are close enough that we may be able to get Jewelers Mutual to approve based on the True Hearts cut. The carat weight is very slightly lower, but if you look at the measurements these will face up the same size. Take a look:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5391255
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5221778
 
emac11 said:
Below is the response from the woman at James Allen. I'm confused why she is even trying to choose the replacement stone for me though.

Thank you for your response. Widening our search I was able to find two potential options that while slightly different in color and clarity, they are close enough that we may be able to get Jewelers Mutual to approve based on the True Hearts cut. The carat weight is very slightly lower, but if you look at the measurements these will face up the same size. Take a look:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5391255
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5221778
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Ok that’s a no. “Very slightly lower carat” these people are delusional. Ask them to use the 0.83 H VS2 then.
 
I got an extra set of brass knucks if you need help persuading. ;)2 :mrgreen2:
 
I didn't expect the jeweler to try to talk me out of getting the diamond I reserved. I just sent her an email back and said the one I reserved is much more comparable to the one I had than any of the ones she has sent me. Its size is almost identical, its clarity is the same, its color is slightly off, but it is also only "Ideal" and not their "True Hearts".

I'll keep you all updated. :think:
 
Ugg... All of this makes me nervous about insuring jewelry with J.M. What would they say is comparable to my eye-clean SI2 diamond? :errrr:

Edit- I get that James Allen is the one trying to use lesser diamonds as comps here, but still...
 
emac11 said:
I didn't expect the jeweler to try to talk me out of getting the diamond I reserved. I just sent her an email back and said the one I reserved is much more comparable to the one I had than any of the ones she has sent me. Its size is almost identical, its clarity is the same, its color is slightly off, but it is also only "Ideal" and not their "True Hearts".

I'll keep you all updated. :think:
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This won’t work. They need to estimate the value of alike item. JM won’t approve an F color replacement. Try the H VS2, it is a great stone as well and comparable to your old because you are going up in color but down in clarity.
 
kindred said:
Ugg... All of this makes me nervous about insuring jewelry with J.M. What would they say is comparable to my eye-clean SI2 diamond? :errrr:
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But all of this back-and-forth so far has been with JA, not JM. I don't know what JM is going to say or do. It just seems JA wants to talk me into getting a cheaper diamond so they can come out ahead when they invoice JM. Just my speculation anyway.
 
SimoneDi said:
There is no fight to be had here. JA should not try to submit a different stone for a replacement. JM would decline an F color upgrade, irrespective of value of who the vendor is.

As I said before, they need to submit a replacement assessment based on your original stone and considering the TH designation (this is very important, double check that it is on the insurance evaluation). Let’s say the replacement would cost $4k for example. Once JM approves it, then you can apply the value toward any stone.
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I don't have JM anymore, as they were almost twice as expensive as GemSafe, but I do have a question about "alike/like" diamond verbiage. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I was of the understanding that if you list that your diamond is a "branded" stone (in this case JA "True Hearts" ideal) in the description as well as provide documentation to show as such, then they should cover another stone of "like specs" carat weight, color, and clarity that is also a JA "True Hearts" stone.

I know with GemSafe, I listed what I expected to receive (matching my stone), right down to the diameter. I basically listed everything that made my stone a unicorn, so that I wouldn't have to settle for a non-eye clean SI2 or another 3.33ish stone that was smaller. The GemSafe rep said that was fine, as long as I had documentation showing this (HCA, GIA report, photos, etc.) and listed it in the description portion. She said they would do their best to find a stone that met these criteria (or at least that I would agree to) in the event I needed to file a claim.
 
Another one getting nervous with my stones being insured with JM...
 
Hey @emac11, what is the insured value of the ring? Just curious if you were paying premiums for a $3,000 stone + $1,000 setting = $4,000 total or some other combo.

My point in asking is if you were insured for a $5k stone, then that somewhat establishes value and could go back and ask JM to honor the price for which you've been paying premiums on. If the insured value is less, obviously you don't want to use that argument.

Here's a 1ct I VS1 true hearts. It would be "comparable".

$7,160 / 1.00 carats = $7,160 per carat x 0.83 carats (original size) = $5,942.80 adjusted value for actual carat weight

JA 1.00ct I VS1 True Hearts, $7,160
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2164429

I'm not sure if JM will push back using that as a comparable and state there is a premium associated with it because it hits the magical 1 carat weight. If they do, I'd play dumb and push back equally as hard and say JA doesn't have anything that is truly equal and like it or not that stone is GIA certified, True Hearts, I and VS1 clarity. Taking the price and adjusting for carat weights is fair for both parties.

There is a possibility JM may try to use something like the one below that is 0.79 carats H VS2 and say the bump in color equalizes out the downgrade in clarity and that is closer in size.

JA 0.79ct H VS2 True Hearts, $3,960
$3,960 / 0.79 carats = $5,012.66 per carat x 0.83 carats = $4,160.51

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5221778

This is where knowing what kind of insured value you have comes into play. If you were paying premiums on a $4,000 stone then you may not win pushing for the higher $5,942 value. However, if you were paying premiums on a $5,000 stone then I'd push really hard and let them know that was the value X number of years ago and with prices increasing, etc. that is a fair price.

Like it or not, squeaky wheels get greased. Since no truly identical stone exists, and JA has limited inventory taking the EXACT match (except carat weight) is probably the most fair way for all parties. I would think that JA wants to help you get this value as well, as it means they get to sell a higher priced stone.
 
@msop04 JM would absolutely consider the brand of the stone. It is why I am indicating to OP that the rep is not handling the request appropriately.

There is no need for OP to even find a comparable stone now. JA simply need to write a description and cost estimate of an alike stone. Like if tomorrow they were to get a diamond with the same specs in stock, how would they price it? That is what they need to show. Not submit a possible replacement. I bet that the person dealing with OP has no idea what they are doing. I would absolutely escalate. When it comes to GIA generic, things get tricky. A “generic” SI2 without a detailed appraisal with alike comps can be estimated to be of much lower value. This is why it is important to work with a trusted vendor, who can assist in the process.
 
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@sledge estimates are not calculated based on current inventory when alike stone does not exist, but current vendor pricing. You also cannot use 1ct stones as a comparison because there are premiums that come at the 0.9 and 1ct marks.
This shouldn’t be the first time for JA to facilitate a stone replacement. OPs CS rep is not experienced.
 
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SimoneDi said:
@msop04 JM would absolutely consider the brand of the stone. It is why I am indicating to OP that the rep is not handling the request appropriately.

There is no need for OP to even find a comparable stone now. JA simply need to write a description and cost estimate of an alike stone. Like if tomorrow they were to get a diamond with the same specs in stock, how would they price it? That is what they need to show. Not submit a possible replacement. I bet that the person dealing with OP has no idea what they are doing. I would absolutely escalate. When it comes to GIA generic, things get tricky. A “generic” SI2 without a detailed appraisal with alike comps can be estimated to be of much lower value. This is why it is important to with with a trusted vendor, who can assist in the process.
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OMG, yes! Definitely needs to be escalated...
 
I've not went through a claim process @SimoneDi so I will default to your experience on this. I just know stuff like I pointed out above and negotiating in a respectful manner has proved very beneficial for me in other aspects of life so it seems logical it may pay off here. The common denominator in my previous success in other areas is I wasn't afraid to reject their offers and then push back (using logic) with counter offers.

I do agree the current JA CSR is doing nothing to help the matter. It needs escalated to a manager that has experience dealing with claims and that will help @emac11 get the proper documentation he needs, that is hopefully of a value that is acceptable.
 
sledge said:
I've not went through a claim process @SimoneDi so I will default to your experience on this. I just know stuff like I pointed out above and negotiating in a respectful manner has proved very beneficial for me in other aspects of life so it seems logical it may pay off here. The common denominator in my previous success in other areas is I wasn't afraid to reject their offers and then push back (using logic) with counter offers.

I do agree the current JA CSR is doing nothing to help the matter. It needs escalated to a manager that has experience dealing with claims and that will help @emac11 get the proper documentation he needs, that is hopefully of a value that is acceptable.
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I am glad that being pushy has paid off for you in life, but that is not the expected business approach in a variety of situations. The point of the matter here is that there is no need for a “push back” or any argument in this case. The steps simply need to be completed as expected for the best outcome. Insurance companies don’t stay in business by overpaying for replacement products. By entering in contractual agreement with JM, OP has agreed to follow their policies. JM is a great insurance company and super easy to work with when their expected process is followed. It is absolutely pointless to offer 1ct branded stone as a replacement because it won’t be approved, plain and simple.

I already explained a couple of times what needs to happen:
1. Establish value of alike product considering that there isn’t alike in stock. The “alike” product is expected to be 0.83ct I V1 true hearts (not 0.82, not VS2, etc)
2. JA submits the replacement value to JM (replacement value is not exactly retail value, but need to be able to cover the cost of a replacement)
3. JM approves invoice and offered replacement cost and issues a check to JA
4. OP can apply the balance toward any stone

It’s not rocket science, just someone needs to be able to guide our OP.

I will add that the “insured value” doesn’t play a significant role because the insurance company will only pay for an alike stone in today’s market, when a replacement policy. OP clearly has had a slightly inflated value. While this is not great for current premiums, it is not completely wrong as well because many people do not update their policies and historically diamond prices have gone up. OP’s wife lost the ring in year 2, but if she lost it 10yrs from now, then perhaps the max payout value of the policy would be more relevant. The better way to handle item evaluation for insurance purposes is to have an updated appraisal every few years or so.

Regardless, I would forget about the “insured value” and concentrate on actual replacement value today.
 
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