Help me choose a diamond!

[Que1764]

Hi team,

I'm in the process of choosing between two diamonds - please could I get your opinion on which one to go for?

1) LG647415807 - Specs:


2) LG660405811 - Specs:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Many thanks in advance

 

[Kim N]

The 1.50 looks more precisely cut.

 

[Que1764]

The 1.50 looks more precisely cut.

Thanks for your reply Kim. Could I know what you based this off? I had a look at the 360 video viewers of the diamonds close up and found that the 1.54 had the superior cut. The 1.50 mentions "hearts and arrows" in the comments section of the report which the 1.54 doesn't but I gathered the 1.54 may also have hearts and arrows but it was never checked for this. Many thanks

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks for your reply Kim. Could I know what you based this off? I had a look at the 360 video viewers of the diamonds close up and found that the 1.54 had the superior cut. The 1.50 mentions "hearts and arrows" in the comments section of the report which the 1.54 doesn't but I gathered the 1.54 may also have hearts and arrows but it was never checked for this. Many thanks

If I'm seeing what Kim sees, then the 1.54 has some very evident pavilion twist at the 11 o'clock position and the high potential for over-obstruction due to the shallower pavilion depth. It'll probably be quite a fireball in more intense direct lighting, but I think the 1.50 (with H&A designation) would be the safer choice out of these two.

 

[Kim N]

If I'm seeing what Kim sees, then the 1.54 has some very evident pavilion twist at the 11 o'clock position and the high potential for over-obstruction due to the shallower pavilion depth. It'll probably be quite a fireball in more intense direct lighting, but I think the 1.50 (with H&A designation) would be the safer choice out of these two.

Yep, that's exactly what I was seeing!

 

[Que1764]

@Kim N @DejaWiz Thanks so much for your feedback. Is this based on the proportions? I've spoken to another inspector and he advised that the 1.54 carat was the superior stone going off the 360 viewer videos of both diamonds. I've checked the proportions of both diamonds and the 1.54 carat diamond has ideal proportions except for the crown angle being slighter greater (by 0.6) than ideal and the 1.5 carat diamond has ideal crown and pavilion angles but the table is fraction longer than ideal (58%) and depth is shorter than ideal (60.7%). I have attached videos of both diamonds.

1) LG660405811 - 1.5 carat
https://diamondurl.com/Vision360.html?d=P68D-28

2) LG647415807 - 1.54 carat
https://videos.gem360.in/Vision360.html?d=2409241442-IGI-44371

Would you still recommend/go-for the 1.5 carat diamond?

Thank you so much!

 

[DejaWiz]

@Kim N @DejaWiz Thanks so much for your feedback. Is this based on the proportions? I've spoken to another inspector and he advised that the 1.54 carat was the superior stone going off the 360 viewer videos of both diamonds. I've checked the proportions of both diamonds and the 1.54 carat diamond has ideal proportions except for the crown angle being slighter greater (by 0.6) than ideal and the 1.5 carat diamond has ideal crown and pavilion angles but the table is fraction longer than ideal (58%) and depth is shorter than ideal (60.7%). I have attached videos of both diamonds.

1) LG660405811 - 1.5 carat
https://diamondurl.com/Vision360.html?d=P68D-28

2) LG647415807 - 1.54 carat
https://videos.gem360.in/Vision360.html?d=2409241442-IGI-44371

Would you still recommend/go-for the 1.5 carat diamond?

Thank you so much!

Hi!
Not just the proportions and angles, but also based on the finer details of cut precision.
The area of pavilion twist is encompassed in red:



The shallower pavilion depth reported as 42.5% tells us that there is likely some pavilion facets that have quite a deviation and are a bit more shallow than the averaged 40.6° - these shallower pavilion facets will introduce over-obstruction, making the center of the diamond appear darker at closer viewing distances.

The 1.5 appears to have better cut precision and would be what I consider the much safer choice between these two.

 

[Que1764]

Thanks so much for the detailed response @DejaWiz

The other inspector recommended the 1.54 carat diamond on the basis that the 1.5 carat diamond has "some color issues." Looking at the 1.5 carat proportions and 360 viewer video, is this what you saw too and would you consider the 1.5 carat diamond as being "top of the crop" (in cut) compared to what's out there? Should I look for another stone?

Thank you for your advice!

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks so much for the detailed response @DejaWiz

The other inspector recommended the 1.54 carat diamond on the basis that the 1.5 carat diamond has "some color issues." Looking at the 1.5 carat proportions and 360 viewer video, is this what you saw too and would you consider the 1.5 carat diamond as being "top of the crop" (in cut) compared to what's out there? Should I look for another stone?

Thank you for your advice!

You're very welcome!
"Color issues" I'd say is a difference of lighting and environment since they were probably photographed by different people/companies using different setups and equipment.

 

[Kim N]

Hi!
Not just the proportions and angles, but also based on the finer details of cut precision.
The area of pavilion twist is encompassed in red:



The shallower pavilion depth reported as 42.5% tells us that there is likely some pavilion facets that have quite a deviation and are a bit more shallow than the averaged 40.6° - these shallower pavilion facets will introduce over-obstruction, making the center of the diamond appear darker at closer viewing distances.

The 1.5 appears to have better cut precision and would be what I consider the much safer choice between these two.

I agree, I would definitely go with the 1.50.

 

[Que1764]

Thanks @DejaWiz @Kim N for your insights. Much appreciated.
Does the 1.5 carat diamond have any concerns with cut precision (e.g. pavilion twist)? I have little knowledge of what I'm looking for when I look at the video.

1.5 video:
https://diamondurl.com/Vision360.html?d=P68D-28

1.54 video:
https://videos.gem360.in/Vision360.html?d=2409241442-IGI-44371

Thanks so much!

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks @DejaWiz @Kim N for your insights. Much appreciated.
Does the 1.5 carat diamond have any concerns with cut precision (e.g. pavilion twist)? I have little knowledge of what I'm looking for when I look at the video.

1.5 video:
https://diamondurl.com/Vision360.html?d=P68D-28

1.54 video:
https://videos.gem360.in/Vision360.html?d=2409241442-IGI-44371

Thanks so much!

Nope, no concerns with the 1.50 - the cut precision looks A-OK.

 

[Que1764]

You're a Godsend @DejaWiz @Kim N Thank you.
The 1.50 has a larger than ideal (?) table size (58%) and smaller than ideal depth (60.7%). The crown & pavilion angles are ideal. May I know your thoughts on this and whether this would affect the cut precision and/or light precision? I've come across this website (https://beyond4cs.com/shapes/round/ideal-proportions/) and it recommended that if any of the proportions are less than ideal, it is best to look for another stone with ideal proportions which made me doubt my 1.50 as my 1.50 would not have made the cut (excuse the pun).

Thank you!

 

[Que1764]

Hi, apologies for bombarding you with questions...I've been doing a lot of reading lately...

I've read that it's best to avoid flat carat weights (e.g. 1.5 carat) as the sole purpose of these sizes is to raise the price whilst compromising on quality. What are your thoughts on this and is this evident with my 1.5 carat? If so, should I look for another diamond?

Last but not least, would you deem my 1.5 carat as having top-notch/ideal cut precision and/or light performance (particularly with the large table size) or could I do better? Tomorrow is the deadline to decide whether to go with this diamond or not and I have the option to start afresh if I'm not happy with anything so your advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I have no sentimental attachments fyi. It's taken a long time to get here and wanting to make sure I give it my all for my better half...

Thank you @DejaWiz @Kim N

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello, Que1764!
Refer to the PriceScope Member Recommended Proportions:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

I go a step further and tighten up the proportions even more when starting a search to narrow down the field:

Pavilion angle: 40.6 to 40.8°
Pavilion depth: 43%

Table width: 54 to 56-57%, expand to 58-60% depending on results and goal (ring, pendant, earrings)

I then go through each diamond to check material quality, cut precision, and overall optics.

No real need to avoid flat carat weights as long as everything checks out. I've seen more horribly cut diamonds landing at the whole carat weight marks 1.00, 2.00, 3.00, etc than most with a weight after the decimal point.
That's usually the cutter sticking to old ways of earth grown cutting by forcing a higher carat weight to boost price instead of cutting for beauty...what should have been a pristinely cut 0.97 is now a poorly cut 1.00 because it'll fetch substantially more for the cash register - especially if it also carries higher color and clarity grades
We still stumble across human grown diamonds that are absolutely cut to retain carat weight by sacrificing beauty, but this 1.5 isn't one of those because it looks quite great:

 

[Que1764]

Thank you so much @DejaWiz This is such a fascinating industry and I've found that the more you research, the more you find (it's endless!). I'm a total newbie but it's awesome being able to speak to an expert like you

Given that the table size (58%) is at the upper limit of the member recommended proportions and outside your more stringent proportions (I love this!), did this have any impact on the cut precision and/or overall optics of this diamond? And when you mentioned "depending on results," is that inspecting the diamond (using the 360Viewer video)? I clearly have no idea what I'm looking at but when I compared the 360Viewer video of my 1.5 with another diamond that was reviewed to have been precisely cut, I noticed some differences (e.g. darker arrows, color and more defined outlines etc) hence why I've been wanting your opinion on whether this diamond's cut is considered to be ideal going off your more stringent criteria but I take it that it's partly due to the recording conditions (e.g. camera, lighting etc).

Also, when you said that "you had no concerns with the 1.50 - the cut precision looks A-OK," does "A-OK" mean OK (as in it's alright/mediocre/not-bad but could be better) or perfect/excellent/ideal (apologies...I've never come across this term before...).

Thanks so much for your patience...

 

[LCS]

Hello, Que1764!
Refer to the PriceScope Member Recommended Proportions:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

I go a step further and tighten up the proportions even more when starting a search to narrow down the field:

Pavilion angle: 40.6 to 40.8°
Pavilion depth: 43%

Table width: 54 to 56-57%, expand to 58-60% depending on results and goal (ring, pendant, earrings)

I then go through each diamond to check material quality, cut precision, and overall optics.

No real need to avoid flat carat weights as long as everything checks out. I've seen more horribly cut diamonds landing at the whole carat weight marks 1.00, 2.00, 3.00, etc than most with a weight after the decimal point.
That's usually the cutter sticking to old ways of earth grown cutting by forcing a higher carat weight to boost price instead of cutting for beauty...what should have been a pristinely cut 0.97 is now a poorly cut 1.00 because it'll fetch substantially more for the cash register - especially if it also carries higher color and clarity grades
We still stumble across human grown diamonds that are absolutely cut to retain carat weight by sacrificing beauty, but this 1.5 isn't one of those because it looks quite great:

Thank you for this information. I continue to learn so much! I have been looking at diamonds in person lately and have come across one that meets the exact specifications that you mention. 1.5 carat - crown 36, (with 15 depth), pavilion 40.8 (with 43 depth), table 59%, lower girdle/half facet 75%. Yet, when I plug it into the HCA it only pencils out at a 3.9. Would this surprise you? Are there other things I should be considering and learning about? Any thoughts would be welcomed.

 

[Kim N]

Thank you so much @DejaWiz This is such a fascinating industry and I've found that the more you research, the more you find (it's endless!). I'm a total newbie but it's awesome being able to speak to an expert like you

Given that the table size (58%) is at the upper limit of the member recommended proportions and outside your more stringent proportions (I love this!), did this have any impact on the cut precision and/or overall optics of this diamond? And when you mentioned "depending on results," is that inspecting the diamond (using the 360Viewer video)? I clearly have no idea what I'm looking at but when I compared the 360Viewer video of my 1.5 with another diamond that was reviewed to have been precisely cut, I noticed some differences (e.g. darker arrows, color and more defined outlines etc) hence why I've been wanting your opinion on whether this diamond's cut is considered to be ideal going off your more stringent criteria but I take it that it's partly due to the recording conditions (e.g. camera, lighting etc).

Also, when you said that "you had no concerns with the 1.50 - the cut precision looks A-OK," does "A-OK" mean OK (as in it's alright/mediocre/not-bad but could be better) or perfect/excellent/ideal (apologies...I've never come across this term before...).

Thanks so much for your patience...

The 1.50 is beautifully cut. No cut issues that I can see. Most people will not be able to discern the difference between a 57% table and a 58% table.

However, if I were buying a diamond for myself, this would be my pick based on my personal preferences for a taller crown height, fatter arrows, and slightly smaller table, all of which could lend to more fiery performance.

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

 

[Kim N]

Thank you for this information. I continue to learn so much! I have been looking at diamonds in person lately and have come across one that meets the exact specifications that you mention. 1.5 carat - crown 36, (with 15 depth), pavilion 40.8 (with 43 depth), table 59%, lower girdle/half facet 75%. Yet, when I plug it into the HCA it only pencils out at a 3.9. Would this surprise you? Are there other things I should be considering and learning about? Any thoughts would be welcomed.

The 36° crown doesn't pair well with the 40.8° pavilion. That's why the HCA is dinging it. The PS Member-Recommended Proportions suggest a 34-35° crown.

 

[Kim N]

Que1764, what did you end up doing?

 

[Que1764]

Hi @Kim N Thanks for checking in. I'm just in the midst of redesigning the ring so didn't confirm the stone just yet. After reading what you and @DejaWiz said, I'm going to ditch the 1.54 carat stone but still undecided on the 1.50 carat at the moment primarily due to the larger table size and I'm unsure whether a stone with an even better cut/optics/proportions is out there (the one you sent me a link looked perfect but it's unavailable and I'm also having the ring made by an independent company so asking them to secure a stone I found online is going to be difficult). On another forum, I've also been told that the 1.54 carat will have more fire and the 1.50 carat will be brighter but both are fine stones which made me second guess myself even more. Sorry for waffling but I guess I'm wanting confirmation that this 1.5 carat is the best that I can do. This stone is for an engagement ring for my partner so I'm wanting get the very best for her...

If I had the option to look for another stone, should I do it? Is there a stone better than the 1.50 carat that we are looking at?

 

[DejaWiz]

Hi @Kim N Thanks for checking in. I'm just in the midst of redesigning the ring so didn't confirm the stone just yet. After reading what you and @DejaWiz said, I'm going to ditch the 1.54 carat stone but still undecided on the 1.50 carat at the moment primarily due to the larger table size and I'm unsure whether a stone with an even better cut/optics/proportions is out there (the one you sent me a link looked perfect but it's unavailable and I'm also having the ring made by an independent company so asking them to secure a stone I found online is going to be difficult). On another forum, I've also been told that the 1.54 carat will have more fire and the 1.50 carat will be brighter but both are fine stones which made me second guess myself even more. Sorry for waffling but I guess I'm wanting confirmation that this 1.5 carat is the best that I can do. This stone is for an engagement ring for my partner so I'm wanting get the very best for her...

If I had the option to look for another stone, should I do it? Is there a stone better than the 1.50 carat that we are looking at?

What's your budget cap for just the diamond, what color and clarity grades are you wanting to stick to, are you in North America or somewhere overseas, and any specific sellers/jewelers that your shopping with?

 

[Que1764]

Hi @DejaWiz Thanks for your reply.

I am having the engagement ring designed by an independent company in New Zealand so they are in charge of sourcing the stone so no clue what the budget cap for the diamond is (we set a budget for the engagement ring including the stone) and all I can request for is to re-select the stone if I am unhappy with the current one.

The specs that we have agreed on is 1.5ct Ideal Cut, D Colour (they do a minimum F colour but they happened to find it in the D colour so gave me a free upgrade) and VVS2 clarity (minimum is VS+). I have been advised that the company follows a strict criteria for selecting stones that maximise light reflection and bring forth the best sparkle and radiance and they physically inspect every diamond to ensure it is defect-free and triple-check it to ensure it would receive the same grade across all major independent certifiers: Excellent (GIA) or Ideal (IGI or AGS). However, after doing my own research, I thought it would be best to do my due diligence hence why I am on this forum.

Should I just go with the 1.5ct diamond? Or should I ask to reselect the stone? (Sorry I know it comes down to personal preference but would love to know your thoughts on this and what you would do in my shoes).

 

[DejaWiz]

Que1764 that exact 1.50 is listed at many online sellers, with LooseGrownDiamond showing the best price that I can find at USD$546.



Since your jeweler seems to be pulling from the same virtual inventory feeds, then see if these are available...all are listed for under USD$650, HPHT, and Hearts and Arrows designation.

I recommend that you pick out a couple/few to ask your jeweler about and move fast regardless if it's your 1.50 or one of these, because we're entering the holiday diamond buying rush.

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

And if you want to go bit bigger and don't mind a hint of warmth, I found this for under
USD$700:

Loupe360

loupe360.com

 

[Que1764]

Thank you so much @DejaWiz

We have agreed on 1.5 ct so the highest they will go up to would be 1.54 ct (?) since there will be a big price hike from 1.55 ct and above (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)?

Thanks for sending the links to the stones above. Out of the 6 (bigger stone - 2.37 ct - looks amazing but unfortunately it won't be covered by my budget), which would you personally recommend going off the proportions & loupe360?

Also, are they superior to the 1.5 ct we were looking at?

 

[DejaWiz]

You're very welcome, Que1764
Figured I'd find and recommend some diamonds with 57 or smaller table since you expressed concern about the original 1.50 having a 58 table and resultant flatter crown height.

If I had to nitpick and narrow down, then it would be a race between these:

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Any of them would be a great pick...check with your jeweler to find out if any of those are available in their supply/distributor chains.

 

[Que1764]

Thanks so much @DejaWiz

Just preparing for the worst case scenario, if the above 3 stones are unavailable, would you recommend going with the 1.5 carat we've been looking at? Do you have any concerns with the 58% table size?

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks so much @DejaWiz

Just preparing for the worst case scenario, if the above 3 stones are unavailable, would you recommend going with the 1.5 carat we've been looking at? Do you have any concerns with the 58% table size?

No concerns with the original 1.50 - here's my wife's 1.69 E SI1 with a 58 table in restaurant lighting:

https://imgur.com/a/WhLf388

Here is the grading report:

https://www.igi.org/verify-your-report/?r=LG455038667

 

[Que1764]

Thank you so much @DejaWiz You are too kind and your wife's ring looks amazing! Can I ask what the design is?

I have asked my jeweler to source the "Round 1.53 ct D VVS1 ID EX EX None" from the 3 that you narrowed down as I found it had the best cut (let me know if you agree as I'm keen to know your thoughts ). I saw a little bit of the black between 11 o clock and 12 o clock - that isn't an indication of pavilion twist?

 

[DejaWiz]

I saw a little bit of the black between 11 o clock and 12 o clock - that isn't an indication of pavilion twist?

Nope, I very much highly doubt it...the diamond is ever so slightly misaligned in front of the camera which can (and will) skew the visual.
Great choice putting the 1.53 at your #1 spot... hopefully your jeweler can come through on that one first, and pretty much any of the others as a fantastic backup choice.