HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE ring?

[TracyBear]

Hi guys, I'm having a custom made Harry Winston inspired setting made by Mark Turnowski. It's a variation of his "Ada" piece and looks similar to Syd's ring. Here's her beautiful ring so you can get an idea of how it'll generally look like.

Since the setting is delicate cutdown pave, I'm worried that the melees will come loose in the 18kt gold setting. For extra security, I've thought of the either changing to 14kt gold since it is stronger or changing the shank. I set up a POLL so you can have TWO votes. One for 14kt or 18kt and another vote for the shank setting style. Since Mark will replace a lost melees free of charge, I made it an option to keep the original design as well. What do you guys think?

If you have a pave E-ring ring, esp. ones made by Mark, Steven, Victor, can you tell me if any of the melees have fallen out? I can't get the CAD images started until I pick the metal and shank style so I would really appreciate your advice/recommendations.

~Tracy



Here's pictures of some alt. shank options I was thinking of. Some of these options will be more sturdy for the shank that will be reversed tapered from 2mm-3.5mm, BUT it might look funny as a halo.

4 prong shank


U prong shank


V prong shank


common shared shank


cutdown pave shank

 

[Christina...]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Honestly, with pave I would suggest platinum....Is there a reason that you aren't considering it?

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Hey Christina, thanks for the reply.

I didn't choose platinum because while it is a denser metal, it is softer. The particles are like puddy, prongs don't break, they just spread out on impact so you don't lose metal, but you'll lose a stone. Most importantly it cost more to maintain platinum's pristine white shininess. Platinum scratches more easily and cost more to repair/buff. I don't like the dull patina. My 14kt white gold band scratches, but not as easily visible. The prong don't wear as quickly as 18kt white gold so I didn't need to re-tip them after years of wear. However one of the prongs did chip. 18kt gold is flexible enough to where the prongs won't chip, but they'll wear down. I don't know which is a worst.

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

why not just tell Mark your concerns and see what he thinks is best. He is probably pretty informed on the subject and he is the one making it

 

[Christina...]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Platinum is stronger in the sense that the particles are more adhesive to each other so you don't lose metal on impact. It's like puddy, the soft particles just spreads out. Over time, the softness of platinum conforms to the shape of your fingers and spread prongs setting apart and diamonds might be lost. Additionally, while the prongs will never break, they bend easily on impact and you could loose a diamond.

Most annoyingly, platinum scratches and requires more maintenance to remain white looking. I don't like the dull patina. My 14kt white gold band scratches as well, but not so easily and visibly. The prong don't wear as quickly so I didn't need to re-tip them after years of wear. 18kt gold is flexible enough to where the prongs won't chip, but it wears away pretty quickly. With little pave prongs, that might be dangerous.

I don't know what to do.

From VC's website, since you mentioned him...

Strength; Platinum is roughly 60% more dense than gold. This is the reason why the same design in Platinum will be heavier than gold. Although gold can be considered stronger in the sense of it being harder to bend, the density of Platinum and its unlikelyhood of wearing away from daily wear gives it the advantage. This density can play a vital role in parts of a jewel such as prongs that hold a center stone or beading in a micro pave piece.

Durability; Platinum by its nature is more of a "chewy" metal as opposed to gold which is more brittle. Both metals scratch over time with everyday wear but with Platinum these scratches don't remove metal content from a jewel. Polishing or re-polishing of a platinum jewel will result in almost no loss of weight or metal content whereas with gold, a jewel might lose roughly 10% of its weight. Therefore a Platinum jewel can be re-polished much more safely than a gold one, that after each re-polishing wears away. This could be vital in areas such as prongs or beading on a pave piece which after re-polishing could severely weaken these prongs. A Platinum piece therefore will better stand the test of time and will be more durable than a gold jewel.

ETA: I'm not crazy about patina either, but having owned an 18kt pave band, I find the need to rhodium plate it yearly an annoyance as well...

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

why not just tell Mark your concerns and see what he thinks is best. He is probably pretty informed on the subject and he is the one making it

I did express my concerns and Mark has been wonderful. He says if the melee falls out, he'll replace them free of charge. The problem is that I'll be traveling all over the nation for work. I want to avoid the hassle of sending the ring off for repairs.

The other option he gave was to use 14kt gold and/or change the shank for a more secure setting. But I don't know what to pick.

Anyone has a good/bad experience with their diamond shank setting? Tell me what style you picked.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

ETA: I'm not crazy about patina either, but having owned an 18kt pave band, I find the need to rhodium plate it yearly an annoyance as well...

Yeps, we have that in common. That's one of the reasons why I like 14kt gold. There's so much other white alloy in it that I only had to get it replated every 3 years for it to stay shiny white. HOWEVER, 14kt is so brittle that one of the prongs chipped within the first year of wearing it. Do you know how many times a year you'll need to polish platinum to get it to stay shiny white? I'm curious because people don't usually mention that.

 

[Christina...]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

ETA: I'm not crazy about patina either, but having owned an 18kt pave band, I find the need to rhodium plate it yearly an annoyance as well...

Yeps, we have that in common. That's one of the reasons why I like 14kt gold. There's so much other white alloy in it that I only had to get it replated every 3 years for it to stay shiny white. Do you have how many times a year you'll need to polish platinum to get it to stay shiny white? I'm curious because people don't usually mention that. Dang, if only 14kt is not so brittle that it'll chip.

Sorry, I don't know, but there are some really great posters with lot's of alloy experience that hopefully will see your thread and chime in soon. I do know that there are some platinum mixes that are less prone to scratching than others, such as 90% 10%iridium and another than many like that I"m less familiar with but I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that. There have been some great threads discussing the different alloys, let me see if I can find one for you..

BTW, I can say that I haven't lost a single melee with my 18kt pave, but I"m not hard on my jewelry either, I don't sleep, shower, cook, workout etc with it on, so under normal careful wear and with some diligence I think that 18kt is ok. Having said that though, I'm working on an upgrade and have decided to go with plat.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I do know that there are some platinum mixes that are less prone to scratching than others, such as 90% 10%iridium ....

Interesting... I shall add that to the poll. I think Frankie's new 3.0... ring is made out of that. I wonder how it's serving her.

 

[Christina...]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Here are couple threads that you may find helpful..

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-vs-white-gold.147732/#post-2668608']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/platinum-vs-white-gold.147732/#post-2668608[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/14k-nickel-white-gold-vs-18k-nickel-white-gold.115382/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/14k-nickel-white-gold-vs-18k-nickel-white-gold.115382/[/URL]
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/overview_common_alloys_used_jewelry

just to make it more confusing for you.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

just to make it more confusing for you.

No, it actually help better my impression of platinum. I think the rings I've been seeing are 950pt/Ir hence they scratch so easily. I'll ask Mark how much it'll cost to do it in 950pt/Ru or 950Pt/Co since they're stronger than 18kt. Thanks for enlightening me Christina.


Anyone own a 900 Pt/Ir, 950pt/Ru, or 950Pt/Co ring? How do they wear compared to gold?

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Id pick 14k for durability. Especially sense you wont see most of it anyway

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Id pick 14k for durability. Especially sense you wont see most of it anyway

You know what's funny? Mark didn't lower the price when I was thinking about going from 18kt to 14kt. However, I bet you there'll be a price increase going from 18kt to platinum. If it's too great then I'll stay with white gold. My heart knows that 14kt is more durable, but my head is telling me that I'm getting less gold for the same price so I'm hesitant about going down to 14kt. Also while my 14kt barely got any scratches, one of my prongs chipped off during the first year of wear. Got it repaired and another one chipped off in the second year.

 

[Laila619]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Id pick 14k for durability. Especially sense you wont see most of it anyway

Yep. I lurve my 14k gold!! Upscale vendors tend to offer only 18k or platinum, and it's not necessarily because they are more durable--it's because they can charge more money! I've had both 14k and 18k, and 14k scratches way less. It also stays whiter, since there is less gold, and gold is naturally yellow.

 

[Niel]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

There is a chance of pave coming out. Thats inevitable. Its just a matter of which will less.
Also, if this helps, dont look at it as less gold for the same price, look at it aS more durability as the same price

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that.

Looks like there's a $550 difference to go from 18Kt to 950PT/RU. Good grief it's so expensive!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Platinum is the best metal for pave.

Gold is harder but more brittle. Platinum is softer but more durable.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Ditto...platinum is the best metal for pave. I wouldn't consider making a HW ring in any other metal. All my platinum rings are either 90plat/10iridium which Victor Canera and Mark Morrell use or 95plat/5ruthenium which Tiffany and Leon Mege use. I have not had to have anything polished and my rings are still shiny. Of course, I take care of them, too. I would refer you back to Victor Canera's explanation about platinum that has already been posted:

http://www.victorcanera.com/platinum-vs-gold

And incidentally, there is more to know about 14 vs 18k as well:

"The hardness of the final product is a more complicated question than the simple karatage of the metal. Properly worked, some alloys of 18k can be quite durable. For commercially cast type pieces, 14k yellow gold is usually more durable than 18k yellow gold. 18k white is usually more durable than 14k white."

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think I found the solution thanks to the help of Christina!

So I love the whiteness and hardness of 14kt..... but it's too brittle and chips.
I like 18kt cause it's softer and won't chip......... but it's too soft and the prongs will wear down.

Happy medium => 950PT/Ru with rhodium plating!

950Pt/Ru is harder than 950Pt/Ir, 950Pt/Ir is softer than 18kt that's why it scratches so easily
950Pt/Ru will retain it's mass and won't wear away like 18kt
When rhodium plated, 950Pt/Ru is as white and scratch resistant as 14kt, it'll also delay patina which I hate.

Any flaws in my logic ladies?

 

[SB621]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that.

Looks like there's a $550 difference to go from 18Kt to 950PT/RU. Good grief it's so expensive!

I actually thought $550 wasn't bad. Most quotes I get change over 1k when I ask about PLAT.

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think I found the solution thanks to the help of Christina!

So I love the whiteness and hardness of 14kt..... but it's too brittle and chips.
I like 18kt cause it's softer and won't chip......... but it's too soft and the prongs will wear down.

Happy medium => 950PT/Ru with rhodium plating!

950Pt/Ru is harder than 950Pt/Ir, 950Pt/Ir is softer than 18kt that's why it scratches so easily
950Pt/Ru will retain it's mass and won't wear away like 18kt
When rhodium plated, 950Pt/Ru is as white and scratch resistant as 14kt, it'll also delay patina which I hate.

Any flaws in my logic ladies?

Tracy, read my last post before yours and you'll see you aren't even correct about 14k versus 18k if the ring is cast. I think most ERD rings are cast but I am not 100% sure about that one.

You do not put rhodium plating on platinum. Platinum is a very pleasing color and does not need plating. If after 2 or three years you want it polished, fine. But it isn't going to have a gray patina if you are taking care of your pave rings like you should after that amount of time.

$550 is a small amount to upgrade to a much finer metal.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that.

Looks like there's a $550 difference to go from 18Kt to 950PT/RU. Good grief it's so expensive!

I actually thought $550 wasn't bad. Most quotes I get change over 1k when I ask about PLAT.

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

Sarah! Please don't tell her you did yardwork with pave rings on! If she wants to avoid patina and possibly losing melee, I'd really recommend taking rings off for yardwork and housework!

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

You don't know how relieved your post makes me feel. I'm so glad that your pave set is holding up so well. I was really concern about choosing this style. It's so pretty yet so risky to wear daily. Or at least I thought so until you came along. I'm rough on jewelry hence I own but one 14kt ring and it chipped twice. I'm scared of owning nice things. If Mark can give me a good price I'll go with Plat., if not 14kt it is.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Tracy, read my last post before yours and you'll see you aren't even correct about 14k versus 18k if the ring is cast.

You do not put rhodium plating on platinum. Platinum is a very pleasing color and does not need plating. If after 2 or three years you want it polished, fine. But it isn't going to have a gray patina if you are taking care of your pave rings like you should after that amount of time.

$550 is a small amount to upgrade to a much finer metal.

I didn't know that 14kt WHITE gold is less durable than 18kt. Learn something new on this forum everyday. Thanks for enlightening me!

I'm going to rhodium plate it anyways because I like bright white metal and I think it'll help with the scratches. The jeweler showed me her platinum ring and it looks really beat/scratched up. It wasn't even the darker satin color that bothered me, it's the fact that she only had the ring for 2 years. I asked her why she didn't polish it since it's free for her but she told me that it'll get right back to looking like that within a few months so she don't even bother. Her band was a high polish finish. Mine is paved, so you won't even see that much metal. I hope I won't see much scratches.

$550 is alot of money for us. We're poor.

 

[SB621]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that.

Looks like there's a $550 difference to go from 18Kt to 950PT/RU. Good grief it's so expensive!

I actually thought $550 wasn't bad. Most quotes I get change over 1k when I ask about PLAT.

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

Sarah! Please don't tell her you did yardwork with pave rings on! If she wants to avoid patina and possibly losing melee, I'd really recommend taking rings off for yardwork and housework!

I"M SORRY DS!!!!!! I'm a bad bad PSer I know but honestly I do everything with my set on. Sometimes I take it off to do dishes but otherwise I don't baby them at all. I think part of it is the craftmanship from Victor and part of it might be my sanity . I know I *should* be more careful but I just feel like I want to wear things and enjoy them-if something happens I will handle that when it comes along. Probably not the best mantra with jewelry

 

[SB621]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

You don't know how relieved your post makes me feel. I'm so glad that your pave set is holding up so well. I was really concern about choosing this style. It's so pretty yet so risky to wear daily. Or at least I thought so until you came along. I'm rough on jewelry hence I own but one 14kt ring and it chipped twice. I'm scared of owning nice things. If Mark can give me a good price I'll go with Plat., if not 14kt it is.

Well I'm glad I helped a bit. I should warn you though that my rings do show wear- but it doesn't bother me. For the most part you can't see metal on any of my rings so scrathes, dints etc are all light. I honestly think you will be fine and if something does happen down the road then Mark will fix it so try not to let it worry you. And really, if you find out later on that this style doesn't work for you- you can always reset. Then you will be a true PSer.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I should warn you though that my rings do show wear.... For the most part you can't see metal on any of my rings so scrathes, dints etc are all light....if you find out later on that this style doesn't work for you- you can always reset. Then you will be a true PSer.

We couldn't afford to keep our original design and get the 950Pt/Ru setting, so Mark Turnowski chose a similar design to keep things in budget. He's so wonderful, I hope the ring will turn out well!

Sarah, I looked it up, in terms of hardness... 950Pt/Ir = 80, 900Pt/Ir = 110, 18kt = 125, 950Pt/Ru = 130, and 14kt = 140. Not bad, almost the durability of 14kt gold and I won't loose any metal over time. I'm really grateful that I found pricescope and have meet all you helpful people. When we first got the diamond, we thought that we might upgrade in the future when we have money, but now going through this long ring designing searching process, we're totally exhausted. I think that with everyone's help, we've found my forever diamond, metal, and setting. I don't ever want to upgrade and go through this process again.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

I think it's 95% plat and 5%ruthenium or something like that.

Looks like there's a $550 difference to go from 18Kt to 950PT/RU. Good grief it's so expensive!

I actually thought $550 wasn't bad. Most quotes I get change over 1k when I ask about PLAT.

Honestly except for your issue with the patina it seems PLAT is your best choice. I think you are personally worrying about problems that haven't happened yet. I do everything with my ring set on. Which my ering and spacer on PLAT, 1 eternity band is 18k WG and the other is 14k WG. Dang I just put down 1900sq ft of sod last weekend with my set on I'm rough on my pave and have had no problems what so ever.

Sarah! Please don't tell her you did yardwork with pave rings on! If she wants to avoid patina and possibly losing melee, I'd really recommend taking rings off for yardwork and housework!

I"M SORRY DS!!!!!! I'm a bad bad PSer I know but honestly I do everything with my set on. Sometimes I take it off to do dishes but otherwise I don't baby them at all. I think part of it is the craftmanship from Victor and part of it might be my sanity . I know I *should* be more careful but I just feel like I want to wear things and enjoy them-if something happens I will handle that when it comes along. Probably not the best mantra with jewelry

You know I am partly teasing you, and your post is a testimony of Victor's outstanding workmanship! But I just don't have confidence that most pave rings will do well over time with that kind of wear and tear. So I just err on the side of caution when we are making recommendations to new people getting pave rings! Of course, I even take my solitaire off before I do anything in the kitchen because I like it to stay nice and shiny!

 

[distracts]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Most pave experts (like, the actual jewelers) recommend platinum. I've never seen someone who knows what they are talking about NOT recommend platinum. So... I'm going to have to go with platinum.

I have 900 plat/irid rings (my e-ring and wedding bands). They do patina but honestly I only notice it on the completely flat parts. With something like an eternity band where there is very little metal, I'd probably never get them repolished. I mean, the only reason I bothered to get my e-ring repolished was so it matches my wedding band for any close-up ring pics at my wedding.

You do not put rhodium plating on platinum. Platinum is a very pleasing color and does not need plating. If after 2 or three years you want it polished, fine. But it isn't going to have a gray patina if you are taking care of your pave rings like you should after that amount of time.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I don't wear my rings except out of the house or when we have people over and my e-ring had a pretty heavy patina after 2 years. It wasn't GREY, it was still white, but it was soft white instead of shiny white.

Top next to a brand new palladium band:

You can see that it's not suuuuper shiny but it also doesn't look dull. It's soft and satiny on the back (well not now since I just got it polished ) but who really sees the back anyway? In this pic you can mainly see the difference if you look at the main prongs - see how they look softly reflective instead of super shiny? It doesn't bother me. I don't know if it will on a plain band, but it certainly doesn't on something covered with diamonds.

 

[TracyBear]

Re: HELP ME!!! 14K or 18K better for Harry W inspired PAVE r

Most pave experts (like, the actual jewelers) recommend platinum. I've never seen someone who knows what they are talking about NOT recommend platinum. So... I'm going to have to go with platinum...I have 900 plat/irid rings (my e-ring and wedding bands). They do patina but honestly I only notice it on the completely flat parts.

Top next to a brand new palladium band:In this pic you can mainly see the difference if you look at the main prongs - see how they look softly reflective instead of super shiny? I don't know if it will on a plain band, but it certainly doesn't on something covered with diamonds.

Thanks for the picture comparison Distracts! My Ering will be similar to yours with a round center stone and pave side diamonds. I agree, not much metal will be showing so a little patina might not hurt so bad. If it's not too much trouble for Mark Turnowski, I'll have it rhodium plated after it's made. I think my eyes will get use to the color as the rhodium slowly wears off.