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Help! Is my pavilion angle too shallow?

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
Hi! I bought a RB diamond to be set in a solitaire ring setting but am now worried the pavilion angle is way too shallow. It’s 40.1 degrees with a crown of 34.6 degrees.

I thought it looked fine in the shop and sparkled quite nicely (I don’t have much experience with diamonds though). Its HCA score is 1.6, with fire, scintillation and spread rated excellent and light return rated very good. The diamond is expected to look bigger than its carat weight.

However it seems the advice is that anything below 40.5 degrees for a pavilion angle is a terrible idea.

Have I made a wrong choice with this diamond? Appreciate any help or opinions, thank you!!
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 4, 2008
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11,227
up close it will probably look a bit dark.
What are the rest of the numbers? long lowers ie high number 80%+ can help make it less apparent.
 

musicloveranthony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
145
Don't take prescribed numbers as canon. Trust your eyes. I have noticed a tendency toward group-think when it comes to angles and proportions. I work in healthcare leadership and I frequently help mentor new nurses (and sometimes providers) on the importance of assessing what is in front of you, not the numbers in the computer. HCA (just like lab references in medicine) is simply a tool, it isn't a rule.

When you have the diamond in hand, decide if you like it. Decide if your eyes are pleased with it. Decide if you can see yourself wearing it every day. You're not wearing an HCA score, or a set of isolated angles; you're wearing a spectacle of nature and human artistry.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
up close it will probably look a bit dark.
What are the rest of the numbers? long lowers ie high number 80%+ can help make it less apparent.

Thank you for replying! It says the lower half facet length is 85%. I’m now really crossing my fingers and hoping it wasn’t the jewellery store lights that were making it look all nice and sparkly (the stone is still being set, so haven’t taken it home yet!)
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
Don't take prescribed numbers as canon. Trust your eyes. I have noticed a tendency toward group-think when it comes to angles and proportions. I work in healthcare leadership and I frequently help mentor new nurses (and sometimes providers) on the importance of assessing what is in front of you, not the numbers in the computer. HCA (just like lab references in medicine) is simply a tool, it isn't a rule.

When you have the diamond in hand, decide if you like it. Decide if your eyes are pleased with it. Decide if you can see yourself wearing it every day. You're not wearing an HCA score, or a set of isolated angles; you're wearing a spectacle of nature and human artistry.

Thank you and yes how it actually looks is definitely important, I completely agree! I guess I was just getting worried because this is my first diamond and I am honestly not even terribly sure what it should look like, so I have turned to the numbers to give me some guidance. I must also admit I’m somewhat of a worrywart.

Being new to the game I have also rather belatedly realised all the sparkle I saw when I viewed the diamond could simply be due to the bright jewellery store lights so that also got me worried haha

I was also somewhat confused by the reasonably good HCA score and excellent gradings on 3/4 parameters - I had thought with a pavilion angle that shallow the HCA grades might have been problematic, given it doesn’t take in many parameters.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thank you for replying! It says the lower half facet length is 85%. I’m now really crossing my fingers and hoping it wasn’t the jewellery store lights that were making it look all nice and sparkly (the stone is still being set, so haven’t taken it home yet!)
stores use tricked out lighting to make anything sparky, the 85% lowers are going to go a long way to making the issue less apparent.
The hca score is reflective of the hca giving good grades to diamonds that are best used in pendants and earrings unlike the GIA/AGS systems which are ring use only based.
What's the return policy if any if you dont like it in the real world outside the store?
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
stores use tricked out lighting to make anything sparky, the 85% lowers are going to go a long way to making the issue less apparent.
The hca score is reflective of the hca giving good grades to diamonds that are best used in pendants and earrings unlike the GIA/AGS systems which are ring use only based.
What's the return policy if any if you dont like it in the real world outside the store?

Ah thank you for explaining about the HCA score!! Unfortunately I think the store charges quite a bit for remounting a new stone into the ring, but for the stone itself it’d just be additional shipping fees. Should definitely have discovered this community and jumped on here before making the purchase just based on how it looked in the store is the worst case scenario here that the stone will appear dark outside of those tricked out store lights?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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is the worst case scenario here that the stone will appear dark outside of those tricked out store lights?
at some distances and in some lighting it could.
The long lowers will help a lot because a smaller percentage will be dark. Its hard to predict how much you will notice it.
If the lowers were say 75% you would likly notice it a lot.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
at some distances and in some lighting it could.
The long lowers will help a lot because a smaller percentage will be dark. Its hard to predict how much you will notice it.
If the lowers were say 75% you would likly notice it a lot.

I see! Thanks so much for answering so patiently and allaying my concerns!! This is like a whole new world for me, made even more confusing by the many numbers and different perspectives :???:

I have noticed though, that it seems to sparkle more from the edges at half arm’s length, as compared to a more even sparkle from everywhere when I’m close up. Not sure if this too is a function of how it’s cut? And if it’s any sign of potential issues?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I see! Thanks so much for answering so patiently and allaying my concerns!! This is like a whole new world for me, made even more confusing by the many numbers and different perspectives :???:

I have noticed though, that it seems to sparkle more from the edges at half arm’s length, as compared to a more even sparkle from everywhere when I’m close up. Not sure if this too is a function of how it’s cut? And if it’s any sign of potential issues?
Hard to say without knowing the lighting.
When you look at a diamond your blocking some of the light and its drawing light from around you.
Which may be totally different than the light your looking at.
Basically with an overly shallow pavilion, parts of the diamond are seeking light from where you are more so than with a normal diamond and its seeks light from where you are at a greater distance.
The long lowers make the area wanting to draw light from where you are smaller however balancing some of that out.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
Hard to say without knowing the lighting.
When you look at a diamond your blocking some of the light and its drawing light from around you.
Which may be totally different than the light your looking at.
Basically with an overly shallow pavilion, parts of the diamond are seeking light from where you are more so than with a normal diamond and its seeks light from where you are at a greater distance.
The long lowers make the area wanting to draw light from where you are smaller however balancing some of that out.

Got it! Thank you so much for all your help I’m just going to cross my fingers real tight and hope that it turns out okay!! :snore: Buying a diamond is truly a nerve-wracking experience haha
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Your welcome!
View the diamond in all kinds of lighting conditions to learn its personality in a variety of conditions.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
@Karl_K I have just managed to get two videos from the jeweller, one close-up and one from a distance. Could I perhaps get your thoughts on them if you don’t mind? Does anything look off or is it not sparkling as it should (too much/not enough brilliance/fire/scintillation)? Is there any perceivable fisheye effect (if possible to tell from the video)?

Appreciate any other thoughts anyone might have too, thanks so much again for helping this newbie out!

Close-up video:
From a distance:
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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talk about blasting it with light, its hard to make anything out in that lighting.
However in the distance shot you can see its still showing dark zones from the camera obstructing the light.
Its not fisheye that would be an issue.
Its where its drawing light from on parts of the diamond.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
Just as I thought! The close up shot especially seemed so insanely bright, almost unbelievably so. Thanks @Garry H (Cut Nut) for that graphic too! Do the dark zones visible in the distance video look like they might be of great concern or severely impact the performance of the diamond? Sorry for the many questions especially when I know these videos aren’t very much to go off of!

I was sent a couple of photos too, but I’m not sure if they are helpful? They don’t seem to say much, at least to my untrained eyes.
 

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Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Just as I thought! The close up shot especially seemed so insanely bright, almost unbelievably so. Thanks @Garry H (Cut Nut) for that graphic too! Do the dark zones visible in the distance video look like they might be of great concern or severely impact the performance of the diamond? Sorry for the many questions especially when I know these videos aren’t very much to go off of!

I was sent a couple of photos too, but I’m not sure if they are helpful? They don’t seem to say much, at least to my untrained eyes.

There is another thread running somewhere about this stone I think - or a similar one???

This is not a diamond I would consider for a ring.
Do you have a certificate?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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There is another thread running somewhere about this stone I think - or a similar one???

This is not a diamond I would consider for a ring.
Do you have a certificate?
different stone it has a higher crown and 85% lowers which is why I haven't called a solid no on it.
The long lowers are going to make a difference with a small percentage dark.
I am interested in your take on it.
 

candyfloss

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
11
I don’t have a certificate at this point unfortunately but would finding out the table and depth percentages help any? It’s a 0.68ct, F colour, SI1 stone, table 58% and depth 60% based on my understanding. I’m not sure if that makes this what is so-called a 60/60 stone and if this should be factored in?
 
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