Help! I think I bought a copy of the ring...not a ring from the actual mfgr!

[matt8822]

So, I''ll try to shorten the story as much as possible.

I went throught he whole process, picked out the ring I liked (an Art Carved Majesty), and paid the down payment to buy it. They told me 3 weeks...no problem there, though I thought it sounded a little long. As she was preparing to place the order I saw her draw the ring on an envelope, place the ring that I picked out inside the envelope, and write "make identical to included ring in size 6."

It didn''t hit me at the time, but now that I am about to go pick up the ring I am wondering if instead of buying from the manufacturer (Art Carved) they actually just copy the ring and make extra $$. I am a little disappointed that they would not tell me this is what they do. Art Carved does not have this place listed as a local retailer of their products.

Now that I have paid a down payment on the ring, what would you suggest I do? Should I go in, act surprised that it is not an actual Art Carved, and then demand a partial refund on the ring amount? How much should i ask for? The ring was $2000. No idea what the retail price is for this ring. Here is an attached pic:

 

[Larissa]

The ring should have the jeweller''s markings inside, correct? If it doesn''t, I''d ask about it and ask for a replacement.

I wouldn''t freak out until I saw the ring though.

 

[matt8822]

That was kind of my thought..was to look for the name of the mfgr, and if it does not have it to ask why it''s not an actual Art Carved ring. When she explains that they copy the rings, I''ll ask why I was not told, and then proceed to explain how the ring is less valuable as a copy instead of an original.

Is this a common thing that jewelers do?? I had never heard of it so I never even thought to ask if they actually buy the ring or have it made.

 

[LdyNghtWng]

I''m no expert, but doesn''t this sound like the ring you picked was their model, and they will then order the ring to be made in your size? Once they order the ring from Art Carved, they would be able to put that ring back in their display. If they sold rings from their display, they wouldn''t have the full line to offer people!

 

[matt8822]

But the issue here is that I don''t think they are ordering that ring from Art Carved. I think they are using Art Carved''s ring as a model to COPY and then sell me. They shouldn''t need to send their display ring in if all they were going to do was order the ring with a catalogue number and size...

 

[LdyNghtWng]

In some stores the counter people are not the same folks who do the ordering, and they could have sent the ring back to make sure the ordering person could double check the stock number. Just a thought. Of course, you shouldn''t pay a brand name price for a knock-off, and copying a design would be unethical, too.

 

[matt8822]

Date: 9/26/2006 12:23:27 PM
Author: LdyNghtWng
In some stores the counter people are not the same folks who do the ordering, and they could have sent the ring back to make sure the ordering person could double check the stock number. Just a thought. Of course, you shouldn''t pay a brand name price for a knock-off, and copying a design would be unethical, too.

I hope you are correct. This lady was the VP of the store...and either way if they are going to sell me a copy then she should never have told me that the mfgr was Art Carved, and she should have told me that it was going to be a copy and not the original. I guess we''ll see come Thursday.

Anyone have recommendations if it is not a brand name ring? Ask for money? How much??

 

[mrssalvo]

I''ve never heard of a jeweler selling a designer/copyrighted ring and then "secretly" making a copy to pass of to the consumer. that''s not only unethical but illegal and they could get into a lot of trouble. they''d have to have a pretty skilled bench jeweler to be able to make exact copies as well and we''ve seen vendors her make replica''s of designer rings that still don''t look like the original so I''d say it would be pretty hard to get away with it. Of course, scams are all around us, i''d be very surprised if this one is. please let us know what you find out.

 

[firebirdgold]

Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be fine. And it really does take three weeks for the mfg to make the ring, that's quite common.

The ring probably doesn't have the mfg catalog number on it and she was giving it to the person who makes the orders to make sure that person orders the right ring. The drawing on the envelope is an extra assurance that the right ring is inside of it. The make identical notation is to be clear that no customization has been ordered. They might have had some sort of mix up in the past and thought up some guidelines to make sure it doesn't happen again. Just my take on it.

 

[ladykemma]

no worry, we have art carved wedding bands and they are made to order.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/26/2006 12:17:07 PM
Author: matt8822
But the issue here is that I don''t think they are ordering that ring from Art Carved. I think they are using Art Carved''s ring as a model to COPY and then sell me. They shouldn''t need to send their display ring in if all they were going to do was order the ring with a catalogue number and size...

Art Carved will take their copyrights VERY seriously if this is indeed the case. I think this is a very unlikely scenario but, if you are in doubt, contact an appraiser, the manufacturer or another Art Carved retailer in your area to determine if it''s a genuine or counterfeit product.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just don''t think this is the case at all. There is nothing unusual about 3 weeks. It is typical, and longer than that is not unusual. Like someone else said, it''s more likely that the ring was put in there to be sure the person who ordered it had the right one.

 

[hoorray]

I think you should simply ask them if they are ordering you a ring from Art Carved or are making the ring themselves. If they say they are making the ring themselves, I would ask for a full refund and state that you were under the impression that you were purchasing an Art Carved ring, not a custom copy. I think you could do this nicely, and hopefully the answer would be what you originally thought, so you could explain you confusion about the process and laugh it off. There''s no reason to not be upfront about your confusion.

 

[matt8822]

****Update****

I''ll try to keep this as brief as I can make it. Here''s the full story.

I called last Tuesday to ask if the ring would be in on time (by Friday). The lady I''d been working with said, "It is coming back from the manufacturer on Thursday, and we will have it set and ready for you by Friday." That was just fine and dandy...right on time.

Friday rolled around and I went in to pick up the ring. I was told that their craftsman was putting the finishing touches on the ring and that it would be ready in a few minutes. 45 minutes later they came out with the ring and showed it to me. As it had just been polished, it looked great and I headed out the door with it. I was in a time crunch (events in motion for the engagement, I had a time hack to meet) so I didn''t give it a complete lookover. Even if I had, what could I have done? I was going to propose that night..

Anyway, I got home and took a closer look at the ring. No ArtCarved engravings on the inside. Immediately I knew it was not an AC ring. I looked closer, and the workmanship was terrible on the ring itself. There were excess globs of platinum, the wrong head was used, etc. I immediately called them and spoke with my sales woman (the VP of the company). I confirmed with her that the manufacturer of the ring is ArtCarved, to which she replied "Uh huh." I then informed her that there was no AC engravings on the ring, to which she replied "There isn''t?" She then stated to bring the ring in as soon as we could and they would have their craftsman touch up anything that needed it.

Today my (now) fiance and I went in with the ring. Before we said anything, here''s what she said:
"OK, after you called I decided that I needed to get the full story on the ring. ArtCarved does not cast that ring in Platinum, only Palledium (sp?). Because of that, we decided to make the best replica we could, knowing that you wanted the ring in Platinum. Because we were short on time, it isn''t the best that it could be, and we will gladly repair the ring for you. We are also willing to order the ring in Palledium or let you choose an entirely different ring if you should so desire."

I was in disbelief. My fiance and I chose a new ring (diff mfg, can be made in platinum) but have not made the decision to go with it. She is going to get us a price quote on the new ring.

Here are the reasons why I''ve been wronged, in chronological order:

1. I was quoted a price (supposedly from the mfg) on a ring that could not be made.
2. I was told that my ring would be in from the manufacturer on Thursday (clearly a lie).
3. I was given the ring WITHOUT BEING TOLD that it was a fake.
4. I was sold a FAKE RING and told it was an ArtCarved ring.
5. I had to figure out on my own that the ring was fake.
6. I was then informed of the full story, as if the lady didn''t know what the situation was (this is the type of place where there''s no way she couldn''t have known the whole situation).
7. My fiance has to choose a different ring than the one I chose for her. (or get it in Palledium, which is NOT the same)
8. We spend time and money travelling to the place to choose another ring.


Now, I want to hear what you guys have to say about this situation. We (me and the engagement ring store) are in complete agreement that the ring is wrong and that it needs to be made right. My question is, should I ask for some sort of monetary compensation for the whole situation? How much is reasonable given the situation?

Prior to this situation happening I had one good friend buy an engagement ring there himself, and a separate friend and his fiance buy their wedding bands at this place. I will or will not recommend more people to this place based on how the rest of this story plays out.

I can always post on forums, contact her boss (the president), file a complaint with the BBB, contact ArtCarved and inform them of the copyright infringement, etc. I don''t plan on playing those cards unless they refuse to make this whole thing worth the trouble.

WHAT WOULD YOU ALL DO??

 

[belle]

from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.

sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we''re not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this ''situation''.

 

[Bunnifer]

Yes, I think you should demand a *complete* refund or at least have the price reduced on the second remake, if you so chose to go with them again. This is completely unprofessional behavior, not to mention downright duplicitous.

 

[Oleander]

Date: 10/3/2006 10:28:10 PM
Author: belle
from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.


sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we're not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this 'situation'.

I didn't read the original post(s) that way at all. To me, it sounded like the buyer was very concerned that the store wasn't actually going to sell him a real brand name ring like the one he picked out. He was feeling like maybe the store was just going to copy the ring, and make it look like the Art Carved ring. These bad feelings didn't start until the transaction was completed, and he was going over it in his head and wondered, "did 'copy' mean I'm getting a real ArtCarved like I wanted or is the jeweler making it themselves?"

We all soothed him, saying it will likely be "real" and lo-and-behold, it's not, so his gut feelings of being duped turned out to be right.

Nowhere do I see he wanted a copy. I think this store pulled some wool over his eyes and should make it right for him.

 

[matt8822]

Date: 10/3/2006 10:28:10 PM
Author: belle
from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.


sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we''re not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this ''situation''.

I don''t understand your logic. I got an initial ''feeling'' that something was not going to be right...but then when I went to pick it up nothing was mentioned about it. They even led me to believe that it was an actual mfg''s ring.

How did I have no intention of getting the original? I wanted the ring I chose, which was an ArtCarved ring! I had a FEAR that I would not get the original, and was preparing if that was the case.

I can''t believe you view this as acceptable behavior. There is no more to the story than I should have gotten the correct ring, but didn''t and was lied to in the process! They have even agreed that I should have gotten the correct ring AND they explained that they TRIED to copy the ring! The thing they never did was EXPLAIN the situation before I found out for myself!

 

[belle]

Date: 10/3/2006 10:57:34 PM
Author: Oleander

Date: 10/3/2006 10:28:10 PM
Author: belle
from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.


sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we''re not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this ''situation''.

I didn''t read the original post(s) that way at all. To me, it sounded like the buyer was very concerned that the store wasn''t actually going to sell him a real brand name ring like the one he picked out. He was feeling like maybe the store was just going to copy the ring, and make it look like the Art Carved ring.

We all soothed him, saying it will likely be ''real'' and lo-and-behold, it''s not, so his gut feelings of being duped turned out to be right.

Nowhere do I see he wanted a copy. I think this store pulled some wool over his eyes and should make it right for him.

i was speaking of his original thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/might-have-picked-out-a-ring-looking-at-the-artcarved-majesty-but-need-help.50492/ wherein he said he wanted it cast differently. art carved does not modify their designs, so any modifications would have to come from someone else making the ring.

 

[Oleander]

I still don''t see it. He was asking for opinions on changing the setting, but was still not sure at the end of the thread. The new thread mentions no changes to the setting.

 

[matt8822]

Date: 10/3/2006 11:03:11 PM
Author: belle

Date: 10/3/2006 10:57:34 PM

Author: Oleander

Date: 10/3/2006 10:28:10 PM

Author: belle

from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.



sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we're not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this 'situation'.

I didn't read the original post(s) that way at all. To me, it sounded like the buyer was very concerned that the store wasn't actually going to sell him a real brand name ring like the one he picked out. He was feeling like maybe the store was just going to copy the ring, and make it look like the Art Carved ring.


We all soothed him, saying it will likely be 'real' and lo-and-behold, it's not, so his gut feelings of being duped turned out to be right.


Nowhere do I see he wanted a copy. I think this store pulled some wool over his eyes and should make it right for him.

i was speaking of his original thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/might-have-picked-out-a-ring-looking-at-the-artcarved-majesty-but-need-help.50492/ wherein he said he wanted it cast differently. art carved does not modify their designs, so any modifications would have to come from someone else making the ring.

I see where you're coming from now, and I suppose I shoudl update to say that I ended up ordering the exact same ring as the display (which was an ArtCarved).

 

[belle]

Date: 10/3/2006 11:00:32 PM
Author: matt8822

Date: 10/3/2006 10:28:10 PM
Author: belle
from your other posts it seems as though you had no intention of getting the original art carved ring but that you wanted a modified version anyway.


sorry, but i think there is more to this story that we're not hearing here. and no, i do NOT think you deserve any monetary compensation for this 'situation'.

I don't understand your logic. I got an initial 'feeling' that something was not going to be right...but then when I went to pick it up nothing was mentioned about it. They even led me to believe that it was an actual mfg's ring.

How did I have no intention of getting the original? I wanted the ring I chose, which was an ArtCarved ring! I had a FEAR that I would not get the original, and was preparing if that was the case.

I can't believe you view this as acceptable behavior. There is no more to the story than I should have gotten the correct ring, but didn't and was lied to in the process! They have even agreed that I should have gotten the correct ring AND they explained that they TRIED to copy the ring! The thing they never did was EXPLAIN the situation before I found out for myself!

i do not view a jeweler knowingly copying and trying to pass it off to the customer as original as acceptable behavior. these are serious accusations you are making. if they are true, then why would you even remotely consider continuing to work with this jeweler? do you see why i am thinking there is more to this story? what did your sales receipt say? if you ordered an art carved ring, it should be indicated on your receipt along with the stock #. if there is truly a copyright issue, there is no reason to take it upon yourself and demand monetary compensation. that is not your place. you need to report it to art carved and to the bbb. if you paid with a credit card, they will stand behind the financial aspect of your purchase if the store won't fully refund your money.

 

[matt8822]

Date: 10/3/2006 11:20:12 PM
Author: belle

Date: 10/3/2006 11:00:32 PM

i do not view a jeweler knowingly copying and trying to pass it off to the customer as original as acceptable behavior. these are serious accusations you are making. if they are true, then why would you even remotely consider continuing to work with this jeweler? do you see why i am thinking there is more to this story? what did your sales receipt say? if you ordered an art carved ring, it should be indicated on your receipt along with the stock #. if there is truly a copyright issue, there is no reason to take it upon yourself and demand monetary compensation. that is not your place. you need to report it to art carved and to the bbb. if you paid with a credit card, they will stand behind the financial aspect of your purchase if the store won''t fully refund your money.

That is the advice/suggestions I am up for hearing. So you do not suggest I give them an opportunity to fix a mistake? I agree, this is a pretty dishonest thing to do...but go straight to the BBB and ArtCarved?

 

[matt8822]

The receipt does not say ArtCarved, however it does have a number (not a description) for the ring. It says 90135EP. Maybe that is their ordering code for that ring?

ETA: There was a clear verbal agreement, regardless of what the receipt states, that the ring would be ArtCarved. Also, the fact that she admits they should NOT have done what they did confirms that she knew it was supposed to be an ArtCarved ring.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/3/2006 11:23:32 PM
Author: matt8822

Date: 10/3/2006 11:20:12 PM
Author: belle

Date: 10/3/2006 11:00:32 PM

i do not view a jeweler knowingly copying and trying to pass it off to the customer as original as acceptable behavior. these are serious accusations you are making. if they are true, then why would you even remotely consider continuing to work with this jeweler? do you see why i am thinking there is more to this story? what did your sales receipt say? if you ordered an art carved ring, it should be indicated on your receipt along with the stock #. if there is truly a copyright issue, there is no reason to take it upon yourself and demand monetary compensation. that is not your place. you need to report it to art carved and to the bbb. if you paid with a credit card, they will stand behind the financial aspect of your purchase if the store won't fully refund your money.

That is the advice/suggestions I am up for hearing. So you do not suggest I give them an opportunity to fix a mistake? I agree, this is a pretty dishonest thing to do...but go straight to the BBB and ArtCarved?

what did your sales receipt say?

eta: i see you answered that. did you find the stock # for that setting? it should be a standard number.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/3/2006 11:26:45 PM
Author: matt8822

ETA: There was a clear verbal agreement, regardless of what the receipt states, that the ring would be ArtCarved. Also, the fact that she admits they should NOT have done what they did confirms that she knew it was supposed to be an ArtCarved ring.

right. which is why i am wondering why you would even consider working with this jeweler again, if that is the case. i would get a full refund and find a recommended art carved dealer.

 

[matt8822]

Nothing came up on the stock number. Either way, there was a clear understanding of what the ring needed to be, and she came out and said it was not right.

I''ve attached two pics of what they made, as well as reposted the pic from the manufacturer. I don''t think it''s a coincidince that they came out looking so similar -- it is clearly a copy.

 

[rossmort]

Hi, I''m Matt''s roommate and unfortunately just ordered wedding bands at the same place! Now, I have to try to get my money back, but I am guessing that''s not going to be an easy task

 

[diamondfan]

I would demand a full refund and I might also tell them I was reporting them to the BBB and Art Carved. I think they were pretty sneaky and should have called you to tell you the ring was not available in plat BEFORE they made a poor copy of it for you. No offense, time crunch or not, I think you would have figured something out if you needed to propose in that time frame. I do not know if I could trust this jeweler going forward, and I might mention it to the owner via email. The owner might like to know, and might not know at the store level, what is going on.

 

[firebirdgold]

Good Lord that''s hideous workmanship! How could anyone stand to let it leave their bench like that?

I totally agree, you should go straight to BB and ArtCarved. I would not want to have anything further to do with those crooks! Personally I''d demand a full refund for the ring and keep the diamond and just go to another jeweler.