help! I dropped my sapphire on wooden floor and chipped it!

[Icy Melona]

I cannot believe the sapphire chipped on wood veneer floor! I thought these things had a MOHS of 9!

I am close to devastated... very sad right now.

Can someone let me know if polishing or recutting can fix it? There seems to be a scratch or chip in the pavillion and under 20X loop, I can see a few small pinprick holes on the girdle. I''m gonna take it to a jewellers and see if it''s salvaged. Has anyone had the same problem? I just don''t understand how this could have happened. Are heaat treated sapphires weaker and more brittle than non heat treated sapphires?

Can anyone rec a good polisher/recutter in Sydney, Australia?

 

[AprilBaby]

So sorry to hear about your ring. Most of us are asleep right now, except those with insomnia

, but I am sure tomorrow someone will have a great idea for you! Here in the states we are expecting a big snow storm. How is the weather in Sydney?

 

[lelser]

Date: 12/7/2009 1:04:58 AM
Author:Icy Melona
I cannot believe the sapphire chipped on wood veneer floor! I thought these things had a MOHS of 9!

I am close to devastated... very sad right now.


Can someone let me know if polishing or recutting can fix it? There seems to be a scratch or chip in the pavillion and under 20X loop, I can see a few small pinprick holes on the girdle. I''m gonna take it to a jewellers and see if it''s salvaged. Has anyone had the same problem? I just don''t understand how this could have happened. Are heaat treated sapphires weaker and more brittle than non heat treated sapphires?


Can anyone rec a good polisher/recutter in Sydney, Australia?

Post a picture so we can see what''s what. If you don''t find anyone local, you can send it to Vancouver.

 

[ma re]

Possibility of repair will obviously depend on damage, so very few people here could give you a clear answer even if you''d provide photos (there are a few cutters that lurke around here so hopefully some of them will join the discussion). Maybe it will only need a polish, maybe it will need a total recut and even a change of shape. I can only tell you that, eventhough sapphires have high hardness that has nothing to do with chipping. Hardness is resistance to surface scratching, not resistance to breakage, and any stone can break if hit at the right spot with the right force. Faceted stones are also more prone to breakage because of the shapes involved and areas that end up thin, especially the girdle. Cabs are more sturdy in that regard, cause they have no particular weak spots.

 

[arjunajane]

I''m sorry to hear that Icy. I have dropped a number of my gems softer than sapphire before and been lucky - I can only imagine your disappointment.

A Pavillion recut may not be too bad - but of course the best way for someone to give advice is to see the gem first hand.
I don''t know if he''s Sydney, but I''d say one of the most reputable Aussie cutters is Doug of Bespoke Gems
hopefully he can help you.

 

[GliderPoss]

I too recommend Doug from Bespoke Gems. I asked him about re-cutting gems the other day and he did say it was possible but it may be expensive depending on size and how much effort involved etc. Best to email and show him pictures to get a quote. He is wonderful to work with!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 12/7/2009 3:39:25 AM
Author: HotPozzum
I too recommend Doug from Bespoke Gems. I asked him about re-cutting gems the other day and he did say it was possible but it may be expensive depending on size and how much effort involved etc. Best to email and show him pictures to get a quote. He is wonderful to work with!

what city is he in pozzum? I couldn''t tell at a glance..

 

[chrono]

A picture might be helpful to make the correct suggestion. I wouldn''t sweat something that can only be seen when louped (pin prick holes and scratch). As for the chip, depending on the location and size, it might be better to leave it alone as well. A minor recut of only the pavilion might be done but one cannot say with certainty based on description alone. Again, I''m sorry of your misfortune. As with all gemstones, including diamonds, dropping it on a hard surface, risks damage.

 

[RockHugger]

Ahhh! My worst nightmare. I agree, if its microscopic just leave it (or they can prolly polish it out). I dont know any aussie cutters either. that sounds like a nightmare though..

 

[LD]

Is it actually chipped or is it the pin pricks and scratch/chip that you're seeing with your 20x loupe? It may not be a chip from falling on the floor, it could actually be an inclusion or be a scratch. Jewellers (and I believe the GIA) only use 10x magnification so you're asking a lot of your little sapphire if you're seeing pin pricks with that magnification. Can you post photos? If you can't see the damage with your naked eye then I wouldn't worry about it. I certainly wouldn't opt for a re-cut.

 

[GliderPoss]

I think he is in Queensland, I received my package from Mt Suprise (god knows where that is!?

).

 

[Stone Hunter]

So so sorry to read this. I hope that PSers are right and what you see is just overly magnified inclusions and scratches.

Good Luck with this issue!!

 

[Icy Melona]

Hi all, thank you for replying and helping me out on this. I tried to take pictures but they all came out blurry, my camera isn''t good at zooming in on small items. I can definitely see one of the scratch easily with the naked eye. But the pinprick scratches you can only see with a 20x loupe. I''ve called couple of jewellers and a bench jeweller and they''ve all said based on the description they could either polish or recut. With the eye visible scratch I can definitely feel it when I run my fingernail across it.

I think the scratches came not from the wooden floor but the fact that I had it sitting on an old setting which didn''t have a stone. I think it may have scratched up against the metal claw that was damaged so when it dropped it may have hit the blunt edges of the claws.

My SO has recommended that I set the stone once it''s fixed so I avoid any mishaps like this.

My only concern is that one of the jewellers said that the sapphire may be fake- i.e., real on top and synthetic on the bottom. I bought the sapphire from AJSGems so I told him that it was from a reputable source. But I haven''t had the sapphire certified by a lab yet. Do you think I should before the recut? I hate it when people put doubt in your mind.

I''m hoping that all it needs is polish rather than a recut. Although one of the jeweller has said that recutting can bring out alot of fire/colour and losses to weight is quiet minute.

Can I ask, if jewellers replace stones that are damaged during the recut?

Definitely a lesson learned for me- gems scratch/chip easily- not just an urban myth.

 

[Icy Melona]

Another thing that came up when I spoke with one of the jewellers was that there is no such thing as low heat treatment. I told him my sapphire was heat treated but was described as low heat treated and not high heat treated. He said he never heard of such distinction in heat treatment. Now I am more confused than ever. He''s a certified gemmologist so I don''t think he doens''t know what he''s talking about.

Is there any gem lab in Australia?

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 12/8/2009 6:25:20 PM
Author: Icy Melona
My only concern is that one of the jewellers said that the sapphire may be fake- i.e., real on top and synthetic on the bottom. I bought the sapphire from AJSGems so I told him that it was from a reputable source. But I haven't had the sapphire certified by a lab yet. Do you think I should before the recut? I hate it when people put doubt in your mind.

I'm hoping that all it needs is polish rather than a recut. Although one of the jeweller has said that recutting can bring out alot of fire/colour and losses to weight is quiet minute.

Can I ask, if jewellers replace stones that are damaged during the recut?

Definitely a lesson learned for me- gems scratch/chip easily- not just an urban myth.

First of all, I think the jewelers that are trying to convince you that it's fake are the type that will probably do anything to get your sale. Which involves telling you your stone is fake, when, in all likelihood is probably not the case. I would not give that jeweler my business. Second, real corundum and synthetic corundum have the same hardness, so that would not be a factor in if it is scratched. Third, a jeweler would not be able to tell that unless they saw it in person with instruments.

I am reasonably sure it would only need a repolish.

Also, does your camera have a macro mode?

ETA: They can replace them, but usually at the cost of the customer.

 

[Icy Melona]

Hi Freke, thank you for replying. I really appreciate pricescope for all the sensible advise and experience. Can I ask what you mean by at customer''s cost? From your experience is it usually the full cost of the stone or partial cost of the stone that the customer has to pay for if the stone is damaged during recutting?

Does the fact that the stone chipped/scratched from a fall mean that the stone is less ideal for recutting and might break more easily? And is there such thing as low and high heat treatment? And does heat treatment make sapphires more brittle?

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 12/8/2009 7:31:45 PM
Author: Icy Melona
Hi Freke, thank you for replying. I really appreciate pricescope for all the sensible advise and experience. Can I ask what you mean by at customer''s cost? From your experience is it usually the full cost of the stone or partial cost of the stone that the customer has to pay for if the stone is damaged during recutting?

Does the fact that the stone chipped/scratched from a fall mean that the stone is less ideal for recutting and might break more easily? And is there such thing as low and high heat treatment? And does heat treatment make sapphires more brittle?

Jewelers don''t usually insure customer''s stones. I don''t know about cutters, but I can''t imagine they would either. Many of the cutters who do recuts won''t use customer''s stones either. It''s a financial risk for them, so you can''t really blame them for not doing it. I have never recut anything, so I wouldn''t know about that. I believe it would be completely at a cost to you. Perhaps someone can answer that who has had a recut.

As for the rest of your questions, I am not qualified to even try to answer, so I hope that someone else that knows more than I will chime in.

 

[lelser]

Date: 12/8/2009 7:31:45 PM
Author: Icy Melona
Hi Freke, thank you for replying. I really appreciate pricescope for all the sensible advise and experience. Can I ask what you mean by at customer''s cost? From your experience is it usually the full cost of the stone or partial cost of the stone that the customer has to pay for if the stone is damaged during recutting?


Does the fact that the stone chipped/scratched from a fall mean that the stone is less ideal for recutting and might break more easily? And is there such thing as low and high heat treatment? And does heat treatment make sapphires more brittle?

Did the jeweller who said it might be a doublet actually see the stone? It''s not all that hard to tell if you know how to look and have a microscope, especially on a loose stone.

How much weight you lose and how much brilliance you gain are usually directly proportional. If the pavillion is poorly cut and diminishing brilliance, you are likely to lose weight but gain sparkle. You may also lose colour since the native cutters are fantastic at getting the best possible colour from a sapphire. If the pavillion is already well cut you won''t lose much weight on a recut but unless there''s a tiny window you won''t gain much sparkle.

Others can answer the low heat/high heat question better than I can, but it''s nothing I''ve ever come across. It may be code for "we didn''t melt flux right into your stone" since some heat treatment takes sapphire to near melting.

As for recutting and stone replacement. You should expect to pay for the recut. If you don''t like the results, you should expect to buy a new stone. Repair cutters do an amazing job, but sometimes they simply cannot fix a problem or a stone cracks while cutting. Generally they won''t charge for disasters, but all risk is assumed by the stone''s owner.

If it''s just a repolish, the only danger is if the stone is diffused, which means the colour is not very deep onto the stone. Repolishing can remove the added colour and leave you with a washed out stone.

Now ask me why I don''t cut repairs

Cheers,
Lisa

 

[Nacre]

Hi Icy,

The best Gem Lab in Australia is Bauer Gem Labs. Ronnie will answer all of your questions and give you the best advice on your stone re. treatments, re-cutting and viability.

Here is there website http://www.bauergemlabs.com.au/

Ronnie and his team are some of the brightest and most highly regarded gemmologists, valuers, jewellers and diamond technicians in the country.

One thing I have been thinking throughout this post is, will you see the ''scratch'' on the pavilion once it has been set? I wouldn''t bother re-cutting and loosing weight if you can''t... too much of a risk if it is a surface reaching fracture, loss of stone weight etc.

Also, sapphires are cut for colour and weight, ''sparkle'', not so much. I sold a 6ct colour change sapphire this year with a natural surface reaching fracture on the girdle.

The value of the stone did not alter with the fracture. It would have altered greatly if it were to be re-cut as the weight loss would have been significant.

Hope that helps! I can''t recommend calling Ronnie Bauer enough.

 

[ma re]

Just wanted to say that it sounds unlikely that the chip came from the setting that fell together with the stone (if I understand correctly), cause settings are light enough to turn during the fall (cause some parts are always heavier) so it should really take a chance for that scenario to happen. Also, if it''s just a scratch, it definately didn''t came from an impact with the metal, cause precious metals are much softer than most gemstones (including sapphires). For instance, take that setting with the damaged prong and try to scratch a piece of glass with it - you can''t scratch it, just like you can''t scratch a sapphire.

 

[chrono]

Can you see the scratch head on, or only when you tilt it? I am of 2 minds between leaving it alone or getting it polished namely because I don’t know who Down Under will able to do this for you. From the sound of it, polishing will take of it. A recut is too drastic for a scratch. All risks involved during the process of polishing, recutting and setting are borne by the owner of the stone 100%. The lapidary and jeweller will not replace the stone or compensate for any damage.

I highly doubt that AJS will sell you a doublet as they are a very reputable place. Another thing to keep in mind is that local jewellers are not making a sale off you when you bring in an “outside” stone and as such, some will diss gemstones that you bring into their store. In any case, a doublet can be easily identified by viewing it through a microscope. You should be able to see the delineation of where the upper and lower portions are joined.

Next up, is the treatment explanation. The heating of sapphire to drive off the undesirable undertone is actually done at very high temperature in the 1000 degrees. However, to differentiate that from Beryllium heating (which is a big no-no for most people) which is done at even higher temperatures, some vendors the regular heating low heat. It is a little misleading but not quite untruthful. Heating does not cause a stone to be more brittle (although some parties might disagree as this is still under debate but not proven yet). Also, just because it has been chipped or scratched, does not automatically make it a less than ideal candidate for recutting. All that depends on the size of damage, type of existing inclusions and their location, original size and shape of stone, etc.

 

[LD]

Ditto everything that Chrono has said.

Why bother polishing out a scratch? Unless it''s a whopper I would leave well alone. You run the risk that a jeweller could crack/chip/break your stone whilst recutting or repolishing. You will NOT be insured under their insurance so you''ll be left without a stone. If you hold it at arm''s length can you see the scratch? That''s normal viewing distance. If you can''t then don''t do anything but I WOULD get it set.

AJS are reputable. I''m pretty sure they do not sell doublets. If they did, it would be disclosed. It''s a very very odd thing for a jeweller to assume and I wouldn''t recommend you going back to him.

As far as low heat/high heat. Chrono is right again. Low heat is used as a different term to mean "heat treated". High heat is sometimes used when Beryllium diffusion is used. It''s incredibly confusing.

Don''t let people stress you out - come on here for a bit of sanity!!!

 

[Nacre]

Date: 12/9/2009 8:27:43 AM
Author: Chrono
Can you see the scratch head on, or only when you tilt it? I am of 2 minds between leaving it alone or getting it polished namely because I don’t know who Down Under will able to do this for you. From the sound of it, polishing will take of it. A recut is too drastic for a scratch. All risks involved during the process of polishing, recutting and setting are borne by the owner of the stone 100%. The lapidary and jeweller will not replace the stone or compensate for any damage.


I highly doubt that AJS will sell you a doublet as they are a very reputable place. Another thing to keep in mind is that local jewellers are not making a sale off you when you bring in an “outside” stone and as such, some will diss gemstones that you bring into their store. In any case, a doublet can be easily identified by viewing it through a microscope. You should be able to see the delineation of where the upper and lower portions are joined.


Next up, is the treatment explanation. The heating of sapphire to drive off the undesirable undertone is actually done at very high temperature in the 1000 degrees. However, to differentiate that from Beryllium heating (which is a big no-no for most people) which is done at even higher temperatures, some vendors the regular heating low heat. It is a little misleading but not quite untruthful. Heating does not cause a stone to be more brittle (although some parties might disagree as this is still under debate but not proven yet). Also, just because it has been chipped or scratched, does not automatically make it a less than ideal candidate for recutting. All that depends on the size of damage, type of existing inclusions and their location, original size and shape of stone, etc.

Please be mindful that a comment like this can come across as being rather condescending.

"I am of 2 minds between leaving it alone or getting it polished namely because I don’t know who Down Under will able to do this for you."

I am from Melbourne, Australia and I referenced Bauer Gem Labs. I know who they are. Every FGAA, dealer or jeweller in Australia knows who they are.

"Another thing to keep in mind is that local jewellers are not making a sale off you when you bring in an outside stone and as such, some will diss gemstones that you bring into their store."

That is just ridiculous. Why on earth would you think that a jeweller would want to alienate a possible client? As gemmologists we are trained to question everything we see in order for us to make correct identifications. Sometimes we see things we might not like...like bubbles! But it''s not a ''diss'', it''s a scientific observation. I feel bad for them, but I will always be honest if someone buys a ''ruby'' on a holiday trip and it turns out to be fracture filled.

I do agree with this though "All risks involved during the process of polishing, recutting and setting are borne by the owner of the stone 100%."

Sorry to go off topic a bit.

Regards,
Nacre

 

[arjunajane]

Actually Nacre,
it is not ridiculous.
I live in Perth, and trust me when I say I have approached nearly every jeweller both here and on your side of the country for serious enquiries about creating custom jewellery.

90% of the time, as soon as they hear I have purchased a diamond or gemstone from the US I have been ridiculed, harrased and even accused of lying (about price and quality).
It is a *very real* occurrence and clearly you are looking at the issue from a vendors POV, whilst Chrono and others here are looking at it from a consumer advocacy position.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 12/10/2009 1:02:11 AM
Author: Nacre
Please be mindful that a comment like this can come across as being rather condescending.

''I am of 2 minds between leaving it alone or getting it polished namely because I don’t know who Down Under will able to do this for you.''

I am from Melbourne, Australia and I referenced Bauer Gem Labs. I know who they are. Every FGAA, dealer or jeweller in Australia knows who they are.

''Another thing to keep in mind is that local jewellers are not making a sale off you when you bring in an outside stone and as such, some will diss gemstones that you bring into their store.''

That is just ridiculous. Why on earth would you think that a jeweller would want to alienate a possible client? As gemmologists we are trained to question everything we see in order for us to make correct identifications. Sometimes we see things we might not like...like bubbles! But it''s not a ''diss'', it''s a scientific observation. I feel bad for them, but I will always be honest if someone buys a ''ruby'' on a holiday trip and it turns out to be fracture filled.

I do agree with this though ''All risks involved during the process of polishing, recutting and setting are borne by the owner of the stone 100%.''

Sorry to go off topic a bit.

Regards,
Nacre

Why would they? Because they want to create enough doubt in your mind that this stone that has been purchased elsewhere is inferior to the product you can get FROM THEM. You are forgetting that many people who work in jewelry stores are NOT gemologists and are in fact JUST PEOPLE WHO WORK IN A JEWELRY STORE. Not all people are as honest as you consider yourself to be, and while it sucks, it''s the customer who has to learn to discern who is being honest and who is trying to rip them off. Or who is trying to create doubt in their minds about buying something off the internet. Or who is trying to sell them some of their stock instead of what they have.

Which has happened SEVERAL times to me. "Oh you bought that off the internet?" And the look they give says it all. Or "Well we have some great gemstones here too..." pulling out a case of inky blue sapphires and light amethysts and citrines with windows. Or "You didn''t get it off of ebay did you?" "There is no such thing as a mined spinel. It''s all synthetic. Let me show you these beautiful specimens over here..." pointing to NEON green things that might as well be glass between the neon color and the window big enough to drive a truck through.

I can keep going if you would like, but I think I''ve said enough.

Unless it''s an appraiser, someone else with a decent reputation, or my jeweler, I don''t give a _ _ _''_ _ _ _ what they think about me buying off the internet.

Oh, and this jeweler (who knows what qualifications they have) was saying these things WITHOUT EVEN SEEING THE STONE.

 

[chrono]

Date: 12/10/2009 1:02:11 AM
Author: Nacre

Please be mindful that a comment like this can come across as being rather condescending.

'I am of 2 minds between leaving it alone or getting it polished namely because I don’t know who Down Under will able to do this for you.'

I am from Melbourne, Australia and I referenced Bauer Gem Labs. I know who they are. Every FGAA, dealer or jeweller in Australia knows who they are.

'Another thing to keep in mind is that local jewellers are not making a sale off you when you bring in an outside stone and as such, some will diss gemstones that you bring into their store.'

That is just ridiculous. Why on earth would you think that a jeweller would want to alienate a possible client? As gemmologists we are trained to question everything we see in order for us to make correct identifications. Sometimes we see things we might not like...like bubbles! But it's not a 'diss', it's a scientific observation. I feel bad for them, but I will always be honest if someone buys a 'ruby' on a holiday trip and it turns out to be fracture filled.

I do agree with this though 'All risks involved during the process of polishing, recutting and setting are borne by the owner of the stone 100%.'

Sorry to go off topic a bit.

Regards,
Nacre

Nacre,
Sadly, I have experienced this myself with one particular jeweller. I never went back to that store. Instead, I gave my business to 2 other local jewellers. I am only sharing my personal experience. Not all jewellers will behave as such but my point is to make the OP aware that they do exist. Note that I only buy from reputable vendors and a few of my stones are also certified.

 

[RockHugger]

Ditto. When I showed the owner of the jewelry store I worked at my new ebay tanzanites he said they were glass and pulled out his tanzanites (pale light blue) and told me I should buy them from him from now on at $200/ct. He also said the pale blue is the ''ideal'' color, and my deep blue/purple tanzanites were undesirable. Well, they arnt glass, and last I checked the deep blue/purple ones are the most expensive....and I get them for 1/4 of what he was selling the junk tanzanites for.

Same thing happened at another store I was looking at setting a stone. Deep blue tanzanite, and I was told it was glass and it wasnt the ''much sought after'' light lavander color.

Either I missed something and I have these crappy blue RI 1.69 glass stones, or I am being schambloozled by jewelry stores. I go with the latter.

 

[Nacre]

Wow, I am really sorry to hear that so many of you have had negative experiences with your stones!

I guess Melbourne is pretty small city on an international scale, the jewellery industry is pretty small and most of us know each other. The competition is high and that keeps most of us pretty honest as we hold our reputations very dear!

I don''t really understand why some places would want to ridicule internet bought stones, over, say, re-making an older ring using the same stones. A view expressed to me by some very reputable experts is that clients who buy stones on the internet are usually very very savvy, more so than most jewellers, particularly with diamonds.

I have had one or two clients who have bought very well on the net, likewise some of my colleges working in other stores will mention when a client has come in with a great internet purchase. Good for them!

There are, however, more horror stories than good ones in my experience. More so with clients going on holiday and getting conned with stones, I''m talking over 20k purchases here, so BIG horrors. Same again with mass produced cast rings which cannot be repaired and are not guaranteed.

I just want my clients to be happy with jewellery that lasts and that they love. That is why this forum is great, because vendors get to hear why clients might be unhappy with their experiences and can give themselves a chance to adapt to new market trends.

 

[ma re]

Date: 12/10/2009 8:36:33 PM
Author: Tropicgal10
Ditto. When I showed the owner of the jewelry store I worked at my new ebay tanzanites he said they were glass and pulled out his tanzanites (pale light blue) and told me I should buy them from him from now on at $200/ct. He also said the pale blue is the ''ideal'' color, and my deep blue/purple tanzanites were undesirable.

In that case I''d request of him to source me some undesirable ones in around 10 ct sizes and I''ll gladly pay him 30$/ct for them - since they''re undesirable

 

[arjunajane]

Nacre - if you feel like revealing what jeweller in Melbourne you are at, I would be keen to know, as honestly your outlook is refreshing from my general experience in Aus.
I have been looking long and hard for someone "local" to set stones with and create custom projects, and so far have not found someone I can say I am confident in their combination of customer service, bench work and prices.
If you prefer to stay anonymous, I understand.
(I don''t believe I am crossing any forum policies - if I am, Mods I apologize in advance.)

I have found the Eastern Seaboard (particularly Melbourne) more receptive than those in Perth, however I do find Australian jewellers to be generally more expensive than US, all other things equal (and exchange rates, taxes etc taken into the equation).
I would of course like to be proven wrong