Help! How to deal with friend's engagement to wrong guy

[OCgirl]

It is very difficult to not interfere and just sit by and watch when loved ones grow and learn by making their own mistakes but IMHO there is no alternative.
It's not that I don't care.
It's that I understand boundaries.
If you were a therapist and this person came to you for help that would be different.

There certainly are times when helping out a friend is appropriate, but this is the kind of stuff they have to work out themselves.
Falling for this guy is not the problem; it is only a symptom of the problem.
If you were to somehow prevent the wedding (good luck) the problem itself would remain, and will just generate other symptoms for YOU to fix, over and over, forever.

Well said, Kenny.

People make mistakes. People make mistakes ESPECIALLY when it comes to relationships. I suppose relationships are soft spots for a lot of people. They just don't know how to end it.
I had/have (we don't speak too often anymore) a friend who was dating a married man. I was VERY upfront about it when she called me a million times to talk about her problems. I told her I do not support her actions. I told her she's hurting herself. Eventually she got really upset at me and I think it damaged our friendship. She broke up with him a few years later and are happily married now. But the damage was done.
I have (still speaking) a really good friend who is currently dating a guy who verbally and sometimes physically abuse her. She came from a verbally abusive family (her dad). Most of her past relationships were abusive (verbally, physically or both). She can't seem to get out of that trend. So I do agree with other posters that the issue is not the guy, the issue is the girl herself. The issue is deeply rooted and it's not as easy as talking her out of it. I think I learned my lesson and try to be supportive (as much as I can). Once you realize the problem is not the guy, it's easier for you to be supportive and just be there for her. That's all a friend can do, in my opinion.

 

[Gypsy]

It is very difficult to not interfere and just sit by and watch when loved ones grow and learn by making their own mistakes but IMHO there is no alternative.
It's not that I don't care.
It's that I understand boundaries.
If you were a therapist and this person came to you for help that would be different.

There certainly are times when helping out a friend is appropriate, but this is the kind of stuff they have to work out themselves.
Falling for this guy is not the problem; it is only a symptom of the problem.
If you were to somehow prevent the wedding (good luck) the problem itself would remain, and will just generate other symptoms for YOU to fix, over and over, forever.

I agree. Work on her self esteem. Tell her how smart, funny, etc... she is.

See if you can talk to her about going to therapy for her self esteem (and get her to a cognitive behavioral therapist --CBT-- if you can).

You can't do anything about HIM. But you can help HER. And then if things continue to degenerate with him, she might be strong enough to help herself.

 

[Imdanny]

She has very low self esteem and this is her first boyfriend (started dating when she was 25). I dumped a boyfriend back in college and she told me I was being crazy, what if I never found another guy who likes me? She still has that mentality.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is unfortunate. I did find a life partner in college so while I have a lot of sympathy for that mentality as you say the truth for me personally is I've never felt that guys didn't like me or might not ever like me. Even to this day in my early get off my lawn! years guys like me. It's a blessing and I'm very grateful for it. I know that many people do have self esteem issues related to romance.

It's not the details of these situations to me as much as the fact that I don't like to see emotional suffering. I do think that you are right and I too would be concerned about my friend. I guess the best advice I might give you is that if you see an opening to have an honest conversation about all of this I think you would be a very good friend to take it. Otherwise you can be there for your friend as you are now because whether she marries him or not she'll still be your friend and you'll still care about her. Hugs.

 

[chemgirl]

She has very low self esteem and this is her first boyfriend (started dating when she was 25). I dumped a boyfriend back in college and she told me I was being crazy, what if I never found another guy who likes me? She still has that mentality.

Oh, I'm sorry. This is unfortunate. I did find a life partner in college so while I have a lot of sympathy for that mentality as you say the truth for me personally is I've never felt that guys didn't like me or might not ever like me. Even to this day in my early get off my lawn! years guys like me. It's a blessing and I'm very grateful for it. I know that many people do have self esteem issues related to romance.

It's not the details of these situations to me as much as the fact that I don't like to see emotional suffering. I do think that you are right and I too would be concerned about my friend. I guess the best advice I might give you is that if you see an opening to have an honest conversation about all of this I think you would be a very good friend to take it. Otherwise you can be there for your friend as you are now because whether she marries him or not she'll still be your friend and you'll still care about her. Hugs.

Very true. I could sit here and list off examples of how he's a jerk all day, but in the end the real issue is that he does things that make her upset and he doesn't seem to care. He always turns things around so that she's the one apologizing in the end, and he puts her down to the point that she's withdrawing and changing her behaviour to avoid conflict. Its a troubling pattern. Nobody should have to put up with it and I'm upset that she thinks that she does. There's just too much crying going on.

Thank you for the kind words and advice.

 

[Pandora II]

Chemgirl - just thought, send her a copy of 'Women Who Love Too Much'.

I had severe 'Florence Nightingale Syndrome' for years and had a series of long-term relationships with toxic, abusive and manipulative men. A friend gave me the book and it opened my eyes to how sick my relationships were, how addicted I had become to the drama and the abuse/make-up cycle and the 'poor little boy lost that only you understand' nonsense and really helped me turn my life round. The friend hadn't ever criticized the boyfriends, she just said she thought I might find it an interesting read.

Now I'm married to the right man for the right reasons.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="chemgirl|1319713505|3048601Very true. I could sit here and list off examples of how he's a jerk all day, but in the end the real issue is that he does things that make her upset and he doesn't seem to care. He always turns things around so that she's the one apologizing in the end, and he puts her down to the point that she's withdrawing and changing her behaviour to avoid conflict. Its a troubling pattern. Nobody should have to put up with it and I'm upset that she thinks that she does. There's just too much crying going on.

she nees the book "women who love too much"....buy it for her NOW. read it with her. discuss it. [i see it was suggested as i was writing!]

seriously.

what you describe is emotional abuse......if its going on now, it will get worse after marriage. and it could end up being physical domestic violence. its all about control: his control of her.

if she won't read the book, you read it. it will give you insight and help you to help her when she finally asks for it.

the only thing you can do is be honest with her. one more heart to heart with the book in hand. let her know its not him you dislike but how she ends up feeling being with him. that she deserves more and better treatment. explain how it makes YOU feel to be around them when he's putting her down. let her know that you and your husband may come to a time when you won't be able to socialize with them any longer because of his lack of disrespect of her. tell her how much you love her and want her to be happy....and how sad you are that she is not.

then let the chips fall where they will. be there for her when you can. perhaps even speak up when he makes belittling comments re her weight, etc. express your own opinion. he may decide to tell her they can't socialize with you any more...or she can't be friends with you any more. maybe her eyes will open. but maybe they won't. just be clear with her that no matter what you will be there for her when she needs or asks for help.

i'm incapable of sitting in a situation in which emotional abuse is occuring. i either remove myself or say something. in the past, i had a friend's husband ask me if he was really that bad: my response? yes, you are. its unpleasant to be around and that's why i don't visit any more.

i feel bad for you and your friend. but only she is in charge of her own life and makes her own decisions. she will have to live with the consequences.

good luck.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I don't have any advice for you as my best friend is in a very similar situation. My friend led a very sheltered life and essentially married the first guy to give her a second glance. My friend is overweight, shy, and has self-esteem issues. She had only known this guy a few months before getting engaged and they knew each other only six months on their wedding date. He tried to rape her TWICE while they were "dating". The first time she brushed it off I think not knowing any better and the second time she called me in tears.

Now they are married, living with her (very strange) father (that's a whole new thread!), and the abuse continues. He does not allow her to go out often and when she does he will call her literally every 5-10 minutes to check in. He goes through her phone and computer daily and forces her to have sex with him multiple times per day. He doesn't work and was fired from his last job for being a no call/no show several times. She does some type of work-at-home thing that involves sending roofing samples to building supply companies but that job is ending shortly. Neither of them have college degrees or any technical skills. I feel very bad for them in this job market because I'm not sure either of them could find a job that pays enough for them to get even a cheap apartment in the crappy part of town.

I did try to talk my friend out of marrying this guy two weeks prior to their wedding and begged them, at the very least, to get into counseling immediately. She went ahead with the wedding and they've yet to see a counseler citing that they can't afford it even though I know their church offers services free of charge. I even posted in FHH about not wanting to throw her a bridal shower because I didn't want to be two-faced about the situation; and no shower was ever held so it ended up being a moot post.

It is heartbreaking to see my friend go through this, but at the end of the day it's her life. Short of forcing her into a divorce attorney's office there's nothing more I can do except be the best friend that I can. She is isolated from everyone else in her life so I feel like I'm her only link to the outside world. I do not allow her husband into my home as I have two small children and I do not trust him at all.

 

[beebrisk]

There's a few things you can do. You can boycott the wedding, in which case she won't speak to you again until she realizes you were right about him, or you can bite your tongue and go and celebrate and pretend to be happy for her.

I did it many years ago. My BFF married a jerk. Her family and friends all knew it. Two children later they are divorced.

Another friend of mine lives with a guy who is so completely wrong for her and that everyone despises --from her BFF to her family and co-workers. He's inappropriate, insulting, condescending and embarrassing. My friend is in her 40's and knows better. She's in denial, or desperate, or a little of both. Deep down she knows with all her heart and soul that he is not the guy. But she will marry him. And she will continue to be miserable until she can't take it a minute longer and works up the nerve to walk out and be alone for awhile. There are many women I've known who would rather be with someone -anyone- than be alone for five minutes.

We all make our own choices and frankly, most of us have a gut feeling when we are in the middle of making the wrong ones.

She knows. Trust me, she knows he's not right for her and she knows she's not actually happy with him. Let her have her moment because if you try to deny her, it will only make her resolve greater and prolong the misery. She will come around. It might take years and sadly there might be children involved. Just be her friend because she's going to really need you one of these days.

 

[Haven]

As someone who was engaged to the wrong guy way back when, all I can say is that I wasn't ready to hear it until I was ready to hear it, if that makes sense. My best friend dropped hints that he wasn't right for years, and I didn't listen until I was ready to do so. Luckily, we never married. The friends I appreciated the most were the ones who were gentle with their criticism before I was able to hear it, and the ones who refrained from saying "I told you so" when I finally woke up. Instead, they were there for me, and never made me feel even more foolish than I already did when I realized what a mistake it had been for all those years.

In fact, I'm heading out to meet the particular friend I'm thinking of right now. Eight years ago she held my hand and told me it would be okay. She dried my tears. She never said "See?! I told you so." She was just there to help make it better. Then, three years ago she stood up with me at my wedding when I married the right guy. I'm sure she felt helpless until I "got" it, but she was wise enough to know that I was feeling even worse, and that I'd need her to be there for me when I was ready to face facts and move on. And she was.

 

[mrscushion]

There is nothing you can do for her. Her self esteem problem won't allow it. She will hate you for dissing the fiance.
She'll never see his faults . . . until he wears her down with constant abuse. (I use the word abuse to cover all of his nastiness, whatever it may be.)
Support her, tell her you will be there if she needs you. Then step back, 'cause she's going to marry him.
How very sad. What kind of parents raise a woman with this kind of low rent view of herself???

Ditto this. What a tough situation for you.

Perhaps when he belittles her in front of you, you can stand up for her (though in a non-aggressive way).

 

[Porridge]

This may be the first time ever that I've disagreed with Haven, but I did have a slightly different experience.

Of course, you need to be gentle about it and you should never say I told you so, and you need to be there for your friend if she does wake up. But I have to say that when *I* finally woke up, and even beforehand, I really appreciated those that cared enough about me to speak out. They all did so very, very gently, more of an invitation for me to talk really, and they were there when I called off the wedding. There were a number of friends (some mutual!) who said "thank god, he was awful!" afterwards, and sometimes I couldn't help but think "why didn't you tell me that at the time!!"

It's impossible to know what to do really, everyone is different, but I would certainly be doing some gentle probing if it were me.

 

[Circe]

This may be the first time ever that I've disagreed with Haven, but I did have a slightly different experience.

Of course, you need to be gentle about it and you should never say I told you so, and you need to be there for your friend if she does wake up. But I have to say that when *I* finally woke up, and even beforehand, I really appreciated those that cared enough about me to speak out. They all did so very, very gently, more of an invitation for me to talk really, and they were there when I called off the wedding. There were a number of friends (some mutual!) who said "thank god, he was awful!" afterwards, and sometimes I couldn't help but think "why didn't you tell me that at the time!!"

It's impossible to know what to do really, everyone is different, but I would certainly be doing some gentle probing if it were me.

Yep - that was my experience, too. I do think it depends on whether the person in question can accept it when they're wrong, though: I mean, I have no problem with people saying "I told you so!" if they're right. It just indicates that maybe I have a blind spot that I need to work on so that I don't make the same mistake the next time ....

 

[Haven]

This may be the first time ever that I've disagreed with Haven, but I did have a slightly different experience.

Of course, you need to be gentle about it and you should never say I told you so, and you need to be there for your friend if she does wake up. But I have to say that when *I* finally woke up, and even beforehand, I really appreciated those that cared enough about me to speak out. They all did so very, very gently, more of an invitation for me to talk really, and they were there when I called off the wedding. There were a number of friends (some mutual!) who said "thank god, he was awful!" afterwards, and sometimes I couldn't help but think "why didn't you tell me that at the time!!"

It's impossible to know what to do really, everyone is different, but I would certainly be doing some gentle probing if it were me.

Yep - that was my experience, too. I do think it depends on whether the person in question can accept it when they're wrong, though: I mean, I have no problem with people saying "I told you so!" if they're right. It just indicates that maybe I have a blind spot that I need to work on so that I don't make the same mistake the next time ....

Porridge-- It was bound to happen, right?

Circe--I wish I could be as open as you describe, especially while in the throes of heartache. But I know myself and that would never happen. If one of my friends had said "I told you so" as I was going through the grieving process for the life I just left behind, I would NOT be able to think "Wow, you are right. I really should work on that moving forward." I would probably have thought "Really? I'll get there, but can't I just cry and kick and scream and eat some ice cream before you pull out the I-told-you-so?" Several months later? Sure, I could handle it, but I was already kicking myself by then and wondering how I could have been so blind, so it wouldn't be necessary at that point.
I WISH I could be that level-headed, but I'm just plain not. It was difficult for me to leave a five year relationship. I knew he wasn't right for me, but I had to grieve for the life I would never have with him, regardless. There are a lot of hopes and wishes that are laid to rest with the demise of a serious relationship, and for me, that is always the hardest part--letting go of what *could* be.

My very good friends expressed their concerns in very gentle ways. I didn't heed them or hear them, of course, and while I appreciate that they didn't just stand by and cheerlead for an awful relationship, I fear that more aggressive interventions on their parts would have pushed me away from them. Even *I* knew the relationship was doomed near the end, and it still took several months for me to gather the courage I needed to walk away. I couldn't even take *my own* advice at first!

 

[Circe]

This may be the first time ever that I've disagreed with Haven, but I did have a slightly different experience.

Of course, you need to be gentle about it and you should never say I told you so, and you need to be there for your friend if she does wake up. But I have to say that when *I* finally woke up, and even beforehand, I really appreciated those that cared enough about me to speak out. They all did so very, very gently, more of an invitation for me to talk really, and they were there when I called off the wedding. There were a number of friends (some mutual!) who said "thank god, he was awful!" afterwards, and sometimes I couldn't help but think "why didn't you tell me that at the time!!"

It's impossible to know what to do really, everyone is different, but I would certainly be doing some gentle probing if it were me.

Yep - that was my experience, too. I do think it depends on whether the person in question can accept it when they're wrong, though: I mean, I have no problem with people saying "I told you so!" if they're right. It just indicates that maybe I have a blind spot that I need to work on so that I don't make the same mistake the next time ....

Porridge-- It was bound to happen, right?

Circe--I wish I could be as open as you describe, especially while in the throes of heartache. But I know myself and that would never happen. If one of my friends had said "I told you so" as I was going through the grieving process for the life I just left behind, I would NOT be able to think "Wow, you are right. I really should work on that moving forward." I would probably have thought "Really? I'll get there, but can't I just cry and kick and scream and eat some ice cream before you pull out the I-told-you-so?" Several months later? Sure, I could handle it, but I was already kicking myself by then and wondering how I could have been so blind, so it wouldn't be necessary at that point.
I WISH I could be that level-headed, but I'm just plain not. It was difficult for me to leave a five year relationship. I knew he wasn't right for me, but I had to grieve for the life I would never have with him, regardless. There are a lot of hopes and wishes that are laid to rest with the demise of a serious relationship, and for me, that is always the hardest part--letting go of what *could* be.

My very good friends expressed their concerns in very gentle ways. I didn't heed them or hear them, of course, and while I appreciate that they didn't just stand by and cheerlead for an awful relationship, I fear that more aggressive interventions on their parts would have pushed me away from them. Even *I* knew the relationship was doomed near the end, and it still took several months for me to gather the courage I needed to walk away. I couldn't even take *my own* advice at first!

Ai! Haven, I'm sorry - what I said wasn't meant as a direct response to you, and it definitely wasn't meant as a criticism. I was thinking more about ChemGrrl's friend, and how to approach her, because I think it is so important to tailor the response to the personality type. I actually think my being as fight-y as I am is something of a character flaw ... but it makes everything, even the state of my relationships, fair game for debate. Definitely NOT something I see as universal, or something I'd try to push on somebody else!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

There is nothing you can do. Your friend is an adult and though you feel she is making a mistake, it is her choice. Stay in your hula hoop and be a supportive friend if and when your friend needs your support.

 

[Laughinggravy0]

I always remember a part of Portrait of Lady. I read it for the first time when I was 18 and I was with someone that everyone - rightly - thought was a sh*t. It is where the main character Isobel is talking to her cousin Ralph. He loves her dearly and the conversation is about her future marriage to someone he feels is dangerous. James shows Ralph's mind coming to the conclusion that he will say nothing negative at all because nothing he says will change anything, but, when the eventual proverbial hits the fan, she will need to be able to come back and talk with him and feel safe with him. If she can recall a conversation later that could smack of 'I told you so' , she won't be able to do that when she most needs to, as she inevitably will.

I found that a profound insight and its stayed with me. Good luck, it's a horrible, horrible situation for you!