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Help! GIA Graded 2.27ct VS2 with a knot?

M

Macaroni

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
17
Hello everyone. Been reading a lot on these threads, but I'm new to posting. I am absolutely no expert on diamonds, and this will be my first purchase of one...

I'm currently looking at a round brilliant 2.27ct GIA graded VS2, XXX, H color stone. I thought I found the perfect stone until I googled what exactly a knot was.... and now I'm not so sure.

The knot is under under the face and does not break the surface. I could barely see it even under magnification. There is only one other very small inclusion. It looks eye clean to me... though that could be due to my complete lack of experience? I've looked at a dozen or so stones over the last several weeks.

The 2.27ct is important to me because Feb. 27th was our first date a few years ago, and my girlfriend is extremely sentimental. However, I'm wondering if I should go a bit smaller on size since a large chunk of the stones in that size are out of my price range (wanted to stay under $25k).
 
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There are many people on here who are very knowledgable in searching for and finding you a great diamond, so I'll leave that aspect to them. What I DO want to say, as a fellow very sentimental woman, is that your plan of incorporating a 2.27 carat size due to your anniversary is AWESOME!!! And absolutely don't change that if at all possible! I mean, come on... that's something she'll think of every time she looks at her ring and tells the story to others. Such an awesome, romantic gesture :clap:

I just did a quick search on one website on what might be available in a 2.27 that should be eye clean and came up with this list; I can't intelligently speak to their ratios/tables/etc (again, I'll leave that to the experts) Screen Shot 2017-05-02 at 12.52.04 PM.png There are probably many other options out there too, as this was only one website. What jeweler are you working with? They should be able to do the same kind of search and get your photos, ASET's, etc.. There are several jewelers that are recommended on here if you're not locked in to using one particular vendor.
 
Part of the problem is I'm working with a local jeweler near my office in Franklin Lakes, NJ (Parian & Sons). I know I'm going to pay a premium for a brick & mortar... but my girlfriend and I live together (and do just about everything together), so I don't have many other options. I'm pretty weary about purchasing online... especially after having seen stones in person and how much of a difference it makes.

I'll see if I can have the jeweler e-mail a copy of the GIA report and I'll post here. I didn't look too much at the ratios/angles so that would be great to get some input there as well.

Glad the anniversary thing is appreciated! Each jeweler I've talked to thinks it's a great idea. I'm just happy I didn't meet her in March or April haha.
 
Haha! So true. Though I've often wished I was born in April since diamond is that birthstone :mrgreen:.

You'll want not only the GIA report but ask them to take ASET's, IdealScope's, and Sarin report if possible. Those show the true personality and performance of the diamond. As for buying online, the vendors recommended here have been thoroughly vetted over the years by others so you can trust them. AND, most of them have a 30-day return policy so you can always send it back if you don't like it. Here's a list for you to explore - https://www.pricescope.com/featured-sponsors
 
I actually believe this could be the exact stone at my jeweler... could be coincidence, but not sure. Price is approximately the same as I was quoted.

http://media.b2cjewels.com/certificate/9108583.jpg

I'm just concerned with the knot in it. I'm not sure if I should pass on this one and hope for a "better" one to come along. I'm not going to propose until August, so I still have a bit of time... I just don't want to miss out on a good one.
 
Oh look at that... that certificate I posted is also the same cert number as two of the stones in the list you just posted (2nd and 3rd from bottom). I know most source from the same inventory so I wonder if that is actually the same stone I've looked at in-store? The inclusion report does look like what I saw in-store.

I'll have to see about getting those other reports? Can they do those in-store or how does that work?

If the one I have in-store right now IS the same as the certificate... it doesn't seem to be accompanied by those reports on any of the sites I've seen so far.
 
OK... update... it is in fact this stone that I'm considering:
http://media.b2cjewels.com/certificate/9108583.jpg

The jeweler told me she contacted GIA for more info since they graded the stone (is that normal?). The knot is very small and can be seen better from the underside of the diamond, not the face. If it were more noticeable, it likely would have been graded an SI1.

I'm also now noticing the "extra facet" on the edge... though I assume that would be covered with a prong.

However... now I notice the HCA rating of "good" on PS's diamond selector. Is that worrisome, even with the excellent cut grade from GIS??
 
These are parameters from AGA for round cut diamonds - https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-chart-round

According to the certificate, the diamond you chose falls in the best ranges so it should be a great performer. The ASET and IdealScope images are created with special machines and jewelers have to own them to produce the images. If they don't, there might be other people they can commission to produce them but I don't know for sure.
 
It's a poor performer. Sorry, ditch it. There are much better choices out there.

4.3 HCA (toss anything over a 2). And reminder... HCA is an exclusion tool, not an inclusion one...
 
What is your price range?
 
Totally understand how this stone would be special with the anniversary. But stepping back from the emotional aspect of the potential purchase, the stone does not appear to be well cut based on the specs. GIA's Triple Excellent grading means that a lot of stones fall within the bounds even though they may not be good light performers. Hence the reason why most of the old hands here on PS would say that even if you find a GIA XXX stone, you would want to ensure that if you chuck in the numbers onto HCA that it also falls within the bounds of the AGS 000 Ideal cut grade (AGS grades stones on light performance rather than just a physical analysis of the facets like what GIA does for cut grading).

I know from the years of lurking on here that if one has a shallow crown angle that you "compensate" by having a steeper pavilion angle. But it usually is not to the extent that the 2.27ct H VS2 has. Usually, for an ideal cut, you would go somewhere around the 34 degree crown angle mark paired with a pavilion angle around the 41 degree mark.

The table is also a little large coupled with the stone being shallow to the point where it is approaching 60/60 status. So maybe more fire to it if it had complementary crown and pavilion angles.

The angles on this one (http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/9018734/2-27-carat-round-diamond-h-color-vs2-clarity) are better than the one you posted. Though, this one looks like it might have been a stone that was previously upgraded and used in a Tacori setting given that the grading report from GIA (https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=17177416) says that TACORI has been inscribed on the girdle.

Only other minor issue is that the polish on this particular stone has been graded as Very Good rather than Excellent (though it does have an Excellent cut grade). Another issue, it's about $2k more than the one you have seen at your jeweller (and the one listed at B2C).
 
whitewave said:
It's a poor performer. Sorry, ditch it. There are much better choices out there.

4.3 HCA (toss anything over a 2). And reminder... HCA is an exclusion tool, not an inclusion one...
Click to expand...

Help me learn. The angles and measurements all hit the top marks for what's recommended. Why do you say it's poor performer?
 
@Macaroni - Given your budget, it looks like you might need to decide if you care more about a top-of-the-line cut and smaller diamond or a nice diamond at the 2.27 sentimental size. Which would you prefer?
 
This where I like plus with a lower girdle % around 77:
Depth 60.5-62.1
Table 55-57
Pavilion 40.6 40.8
Crown 34 34.5

The HCA tool is very consistent: run the numbers for rounds, and toss over a 2. Under a 2, check out aset and sarin, etc.

With this 2.27, the reports and graphics would tell the story clearly. Thr HCA tells it, but the visual would seal it...
 
An I color is where most can start seeing tint, which I can too. But, I have a small .37 pendant in an I and its not better or worse than a G or H, just slightly warmer. I think the opticals on an I are incredible.

So I would for sure consider the 2.26
 
ILikeShiny said:
@Macaroni - Given your budget, it looks like you might need to decide if you care more about a top-of-the-line cut and smaller diamond or a nice diamond at the 2.27 sentimental size. Which would you prefer?
Click to expand...

The sentimental aspect of the 2.27 is something I really wanted to do, and given that I have about 2-2.5 more months before actually NEEDING to purchase, I'd kindof like to stick to that route.

However, if getting a high-quality 2.27ct is not doable within the $25k range... then I need to make peace with that and shift my focus towards a 2.00, 2.02, 2.20, or 2.22 ct

Both she and I are numbers people, and she in particular has a thing for the number 2. If I can't do 2.27, I'd like to at least try to work that in!

Again... I'm kindof clueless as to how important some of these criteria actually are to a lay person.
 
ILikeShiny said:
Help me learn. The angles and measurements all hit the top marks for what's recommended. Why do you say it's poor performer?
Click to expand...

Hi ILikeShiny, there are semi-strict parameters that we folks here on PS have for modern round brilliants that are considered to be ideal/super-ideal cuts. Essentially the ones that whitewave posted about. Staying within those usually means that a stone will be under a HCA score of 2 and worthy of further consideration for a purchase (that's when visual performance re: clarity/inclusions and fluorescence along with overall light performance comes into play).
 
Macaroni said:
The sentimental aspect of the 2.27 is something I really wanted to do, and given that I have about 2-2.5 more months before actually NEEDING to purchase, I'd kindof like to stick to that route.

However, if getting a high-quality 2.27ct is not doable within the $25k range... then I need to make peace with that and shift my focus towards a 2.00, 2.02, 2.20, or 2.22 ct

Both she and I are numbers people, and she in particular has a thing for the number 2. If I can't do 2.27, I'd like to at least try to work that in!

Again... I'm kindof clueless as to how important some of these criteria actually are to a lay person.
Click to expand...

So if a 2.27 is undoable (unlikely given some of the stones other folks have found at Whiteflash that are around the 2.27 mark) say a 2.22 would be good as well (given what you said about the number 2 being significant for her?)
 
bmfang said:
So if a 2.27 is undoable (unlikely given some of the stones other folks have found at Whiteflash that are around the 2.27 mark) say a 2.22 would be good as well (given what you said about the number 2 being significant for her?)
Click to expand...

@bmfang that's correct... I'm going to shift my focus down to a 2.22ct, but also still keeping an eye out for that perfect 2.27ct. I'm thinking it could also save a bit of my budget since it's not quite at the quarter carat mark?
 
Nothing over at BGD within the OP's budget. James Allen has some based on my quick trawl through the inventory list there (but anything close to 2.27 is over the $25k budget at this point in time).

The 2.26 Whiteflash stone is very pretty and cut wise it is definitely way better than the B2C stones IMHO.
 
bmfang said:
This one is overkill on the clarity, but the proportions are ok in my books (CA/PA combo is a bit weird, but HCA shows a 0.7 based on 55% table and 61.3% depth):
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2262429
Click to expand...

Haven't even considered looking at stones in that clarity. Is it best to refine by budget, and then just slowly work down the color, clarity, and then carat?

This forum is SO much more helpful than anything I've tried to research on my own, or anything I've managed to squeeze out of my guy friends. Thanks!
 
Hi macaroni, wasn't specifically looking at IF clarity stones but have been trawling JA and keeping in mind your budget and that one popped up.

There is another which is a 2.26ct but only returns a 2.3 on HCA but which visually looks ok but is about $4k cheaper (https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1959639)

And there is a 2.2 I SI1 which looks eye clean to me (I can see inclusions but they aren't black in colour) and is significantly lower than your budget:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2664652

The proportions on the I SI1 are also within the ideal/super-ideal range and HCA gives a score of 0.9
 
HCA is your number one easiest tool to use that will help you discard diamonds that won't have desirable real world eye performance.
 
@Macaroni - Before you sacrifice on carat, color, or clarity, would you be open to a diamond that is not a round shape? Typically, rounds are more expensive and non-round ("fancy") shapes are cheaper. If you go with an Oval, Marquise, or Pear shape then the equivalent carat weight can actually have a larger face-up surface area than a round shape -- you may or may not perceive it to look "bigger".
 
Macaroni said:
The 2.27ct is important to me because Feb. 27th was our first date a few years ago, and my girlfriend is extremely sentimental. However, I'm wondering if I should go a bit smaller on size since a large chunk of the stones in that size are out of my price range (wanted to stay under $25k).
Click to expand...
Just imagine if your first date was on Dec. 31...
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