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Help! Fancy Intense Green-Yellow Engagement Ring

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WouldLoveSomeHelp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
6
I am hoping to soon buy an engagement ring and saw something interesting in a vintage jewely store, but would be thrilled for some guidance on whether the price ($14,000) is fair and the stone particularly nice. It looks lovely to me and very unique in color, but I am basically an idiot on this stuff, so I would really appreciate the help. The jeweler tells me the setting is 50s-era and platinum (stamped "MAN 950"). The GIA certificate says the following:

Old Mine Brilliant
6.93 x 6.75 x 4.23 mm
1.25 carat

Depth - 62.2%
Table - 46%
Girdle - Extremely thin to medium
Culet - Large

Polish - Good
Symmetry - Fair
Clarity - SI1

Origin - Natural
Grade - Fancy Intense Green-Yellow
Distribution - even
Fluorescence - very strong yellow

Comments - Pinpoints are not shown. Crown angles are greater than 40 degrees.

Thank you so much!!!
 
do you have any images?
 
I happen to love old mine cuts, though not everyone does. I imagine a fancy intense yellow-green would be spectacular!

I did a quick search for stones you might use for a price comparison and didn't fine much in that color group. Here's one that's close - a more modern cut, .44ct for $6800. It's a fancy y-g; the fancy intense should be brighter (and I suspect more costly).
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/je...reen-radiant-vs2-gia-wicked-green-color-r3487

Here's a somewhat larger but considerably more expensive OMC with less intense color, 1.59ct $26,000+
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/je...ssible-windfall-if-it-gets-vivid-yellow-r4330

Hmm.. those colored diamonds are looking kinda expensive on a per-carat basis!

Hopefully Kenny or one of our other colored diamond affectionados will weigh in!
 
Here is a link to GIA's report verification tool.
http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/
Enter the GIA report # and the carat weight.
This will verify the report is legit when buying from someone you are not sure about.
Next step would be verifying the stone is the one described in the report.
GIA itself can do this for a small fee.

Determining whether the price of an FCD is reasonable is difficult.
Unlike white diamonds fancy colored ones come in many hues and are very rare, then there are the price-changing secondary and tertiary hues.
When two hues are mentioned (Green Yellow) the one mentioned last is strongest of the two.
But this diamond has more Green than if it were graded only Greenish Yellow, and the more green the higher the price.

What is the GIA report date?
If older than a few years I'd get GIA to regrade the diamond again.
I asked my vendor to do than when I bought a Fancy Intense Green and they gladly sent it back to GIA for a new report.

The worry is the green NOT being of natural origin.
Green is the result of proximity to radioactive material.
It can happen naturally in the earth (very rare and expensive) or it can be caused by humans in a lab (relatively cheaply), and those humans get more clever every year, so GIA is constantly researching to keep up.
Sometimes GIA cannot determine the origin of the green and say so on the report.
It is a cat and mouse game.
If the report is old GIA may not have had today's proficiency in detecting the human processing that results in green.

One way to help evaluate the price is to try to find comparable diamonds.
As I said it is next to impossible but the vendor I use has the largest collection... www.fancydiamonds.net... and browsing their inventory may be informative.

I've bought 20 FCDs from them and they are very reputable and I have found their photography to have very accurate color.

Do you have pics of this FCD?
Does your vendor have a 30-day no questions asked money back guarantee?
 
One other thing, are indented naturals listed as flaws below the two plots?
I hope so.
GIA will look into the naturals to help determine color origin of greens.
Naturals are actually tiny leftovers of the rough diamond's skin.
Besides maximizing the weight naturals are often, perhaps usually, left on greens to ensure GIA can verify the natural origin of the color which results in a price a zillion times higher than treated green color.

If there are no naturals and the GIA report is old I'd certainly insist it goes back to GIA for grading using todays technology.

YOu asked whether the stone is particularly nice.
FCDs are all about the color.
GIA's color grades each have a very wide range. unlike the grades for white diamonds on their D-A scale.
If you like the color, then it's good - BUT the more you look at FCDs the more educated your eyes will be come.
They may not be easy to find but look at as many as you can before buying.
What you like today may not be what you like after seeing many more FCDs.

Here is a pic of the girdle of my green showing the naturals.
It is those brown radiation stains that are important to GIA's analysis.

Screen shot 2011-12-11 at 10.51.46 PM.png
 
Thank you so much for the hugely helpful information. I will see what more I can find out. The GIA report is genuine, but from 2000. It does list naturals as flaws, which sounds like good news. I do have a picture, but it is pretty crappy. I attach it here for whatever it is worth. One last question. Is the very strong yellow fluorescence an issue? Thanks again.

Ring (10717716).JPG
 
I think it sounds lovely!! Do you know if this is something your FI would like?
 
Well, there is always a risk, since she did not pick it out herself and has not given me terrific guidance. Still, she loves vintage jewelry and does not want something standard, so I think this might work as a somewhat unique/unusual, but not over the top quirky.

As an aside, do I have to worry too much about the symbols "feather, crystal, chip, natural" being listed for this kind of stone? There is just so much I do not know about this stuff. Makes me nervous.
 
WouldLoveSomeHelp|1323705026|3079807 said:
Is the very strong yellow fluorescence an issue?
Click to expand...

IMHO, VSYF it is not an issue to the better-informed.
BUT, if you ever want to sell it many potential buyers are poorly-informned and there IS a stigma attached to fluorescence, unfair IMHO.
In white diamonds it can lower the price of D E F diamonds a few percent.

In FCDs I'm not sure that is the case as the color of the fluor may help or hurt the overall color of the FCD.
Yellow in a primarily yellow diamond sounds like it would not become less attractive.
Generally opposite colors combine to make mud/gray/brown so you wouldn't want blue fluor in an orange diamond or yellow fluor in a purple diamond.

There was a scandal almost 100 years ago; white diamonds with strong fluor were marketed as blue diamonds.
The government put an end to it but fluor still can't shake the bad rap in the USA.
I hear fluor is less of a concern in Europe.

FSYF WILL make it look more yellow and glowing when seen in light that has a strong ultraviolet component like sunlight or a blacklight.
If you don't like the look then it is an issue, if you do like the look then it is not an issue.

Rarely very strong fluor will cause a diamond to appear milky or oily.
Take it out in sunlight and see if it does.
If so, I'd not buy it.

Is a 2000 report old enough to insist the green diamond is removed from the setting and sent back to GIA to get the latest technology for verifying the origin of the green?
Hmm, tough call.
My green was loose and there was a lot more money at stake and and I'm very OCD with near-zero risk tolerance, a nightmare customer. :lol:
People vary and you may be fine with it.

You may want to get the advice of Stephen Hofer, an FCD expert.
(413) 269-4004
http://www.stephenhofer.com/
[email protected]

Ask him if he'd feel comfortable buying a green with an almost 12 year old GIA report, or if GIA's technology has not changed that much.
For all I know GIA may be using the same techniques they developed 13 years ago; Hofer may know for sure or know who knows.
He does of course charge for analyzing diamonds but I spoke to him on the phone once and he was very polite and helpful with such quick questions.

He wrote this huge reference book on Fancy Colored Diamonds.

http://www.amazon.com/Collecting-Classifying-Coloured-Diamonds-Illustrated/dp/0965941019/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323454995&sr=1-1&tag=vglnk-c2386-20
 
WouldLoveSomeHelp|1323705026|3079807 said:
Thank you so much for the hugely helpful information. I will see what more I can find out. The GIA report is genuine, but from 2000. It does list naturals as flaws, which sounds like good news. I do have a picture, but it is pretty crappy. I attach it here for whatever it is worth. One last question. Is the very strong yellow fluorescence an issue? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Hi all!
wouldlovesomehelp....the photo looks very....well, artificial to me- has the vendor stated unequivocally that this is an actual photo of the ring they're selling?
If so, I'd ask for another shot.

In terms of prices- and how to judge such colors:
Fancy colors are quite a complex subject- especially when we're trying to order them in terms of value.
Yellow is a more "reasonable" color- Green is out of this world, pricewise- if it's PURE green.
Once we start mixing yellow and green the prices come way back down to earth- and considerations about origin, raised by Kenny earlier, are really no concern if there's a GIA report.
The fact that a pure "Fancy Light Green" one carat stone might be $50k, and a Fancy Light Greenish Yellow is a small fraction of that shows why there's less incentive for sellers to try and bluff this- and also it's easier for GIA to determine the color on these mixed shades.

When comparing a pure " Fancy Intense Yellow" to a "Fancy Intense Green yellow" there's a lot of considerations that might make one stone worth more than another.

The Strong Fluoresence may indeed come into play in determining the value.
If we're considering a Fancy Intense Yellow, strong fl will affect value. Period.
ON a greenish yellow, not always, but sometimes.
Again- more , and better photos will help us see what's going on here

Kenny mentioned a new report- if a cutter submits a diamond for a new report there' two ways to do it.
One way is to submit the stone blind to see if you get the same grade- the other is to submit the stone with the original report, for to be inspected again.
In the second method, changes in grade are far more rare. GIA will use their initial work as part of the inspection ( I believe).
If I'm buying a diamond and the report is a few years old it's not necessarily a consideration- but I'm getting the diamonds from sources we are very familiar with
 
Yes, the photo looks weird, which is why I did not originally post it. I have seen the ring though, and it is a fair enough representation, albeit one that has a "painted" or artificial feel.

Anyway, all of this is very helpful. Thanks again.
 
To be very honest, I think this is MUCH too risky for a surprise engagement ring. I love antique rings and stones, but that ring would not interest me whatsoever for an engagement ring. The charm of antique rings is a beautiful setting combined with a beautiful stone, and that setting is just a plain modern 6 prong solitaire. There are some beautiful fancy light yellows that might be pretty for an e-ring if she has said she doesn't want a white diamond, but if she hasn't said that, I would definitely stick with white, near-colorless diamonds for an engagement ring. The stone in question might be gorgeous and could be reset to make a beautiful right hand ring, though.
 
WouldLoveSomeHelp|1323709435|3079842 said:
Well, there is always a risk, since she did not pick it out herself and has not given me terrific guidance. Still, she loves vintage jewelry and does not want something standard, so I think this might work as a somewhat unique/unusual, but not over the top quirky.

As an aside, do I have to worry too much about the symbols "feather, crystal, chip, natural" being listed for this kind of stone? There is just so much I do not know about this stuff. Makes me nervous.
Click to expand...

A feather in an SI1 may be a concern to someone like me who doesn't like feathers, though I have bought diamonds with them.
Since the report is so old I'd get either a new one or get an independent professional appraiser (who does not sell diamonds) whom YOU select and pay for, to look at it for wear and more chips and an opinion on the price, but good luck finding one who specializes in FCDs.

I have a natural Fancy Vivid Green Yellow too but it has strong green fluor.
I absolutely love it because it looks like radiator fluid; It positively glows.
But it functions as one step in a rainbow of FCDs, not alone as an ering.

I'm not sure I'd give such a color to someone as an ering.
Many people feel a right hand ring can be far out and unusual but an ering should not look too "over the top quirky" as you put it.
Then again, in these days of pierced eyebrows and black lipstick an engagement diamond that screams radiator fluid may just be the bees knees.
I'd proceed with caution and NOT buy this as a surprise unless you can present it for her approval within a refund period you got in writing.
That or give up the surprise thing and just take her in to see it.
It's just too expensive and the look is too specialized for an ering, and this is coming from a wacko FCD collector who adores his FCD with hot pink florescence.

You said you saw it.
Does it really look like that pic? (EDIT: I see you already answered)
The pic looks doctored to me, but with FCDs I can't say for sure.

I'm going to include a pic of mine under regular and UV light to give you an idea of how much fluor can affect the feeling of a diamond.
(Naturally we don't spend much time under a black light unless we work as a bartender.)

a000.png
 
I guess I will need to get a bit more intel, both about the ring and my GF's opinions, which are not fully-formed, which is part of the problem. On the other hand, she has mentioned a fondness for colored diamonds, so I am not departing from the norm completely without justification. And I think the old mine cut is something she would like very much. The question of whether the color is too funky for her or not is something I will need to determine.

Thanks very much for everyone's assistance. This has been hugely helpful to me and I greatly appreciate it.
 
I think "diamondseeker2006" needs to stop sugar-coating and tell me what she/he really thinks of the ring I am looking at. :-) Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, so I will need to find out more about my GF's preferences. For instance, I know that many of the rings on that website are much too busy for her. Thanks again to all.
 
Do keep an open mind to buying the stone and the setting separately.
 
By all means, do not buy any ring who's style does not suit you.
Having said that- I advise consumers to consider a fancy colored diamond, and the setting at the same time.
Although Kenny has a remarkable collection- it seems his goal is to keep them loose.
A setting specifically made for a given fancy colored diamond, if it's made well, makes a HUGE difference in the color, and possible sparkle of the rings
 
I also prefer a very simple engagement ring, as you can see. :)) I personally prefer a colorless/near colorless diamond. But if you and she prefer colored diamonds, that is fine! There are plenty of simple rings on the site we linked. I just don't know of any other vendors with extensive collections of natural colored diamonds aside from this one.

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-70ct-square-modified-brilliant--y-z-vvs1-gia-near-perfection-r3598

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-150ct-cushion-cut-fancy-brown-yellow-si2-gia-incredible-sparkle-r3756

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-150ct-cushion-cut-fancy-brown-yellow-si2-gia-incredible-sparkle-r3756

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-71ct-radiant-cut-fancy-intense-yellow-si1-gia-simply-stunning-r3947

Be very careful, because many colored diamonds are irradiated.
 
Hi Wouldlovesomehelp,

I think it's great that you're thinking outside of the box and thinking about vintage rings.

How does your fiance-to-be feel about Highlighter yellow? Is it her favorite color? If not, you should really get her opinion on it before you spend 14k.

I know fancy colored diamonds have a certain cachet, but they may not match every outfit - which is why colorless diamonds are so popular.

If you want vintage-appeal Singlestone does some fantastic work: http://www.singlestone.com/index.php?page=collections&catID=3
 
I'm not feeling it, especially not in that setting. With a colored stone, I'd be sure to select a special setting at the same time - I can't see a bright yellow/green diamond solitaire.

And I'd be really careful that your future fiancee would love it. Maybe find out whether she likes colored diamonds, antique styles, warmer diamonds, etc. Shop and see what she likes. Also, how specific are her tastes. If I were to say that I liked colored diamonds, I might mean pink, or light yellow, but if I was surprised with yellow-green . . . well, I wouldn't be happy. You need more information on what she'll like.

I spent more than 15 years wearing an engagement ring that I wasn't crazy about, and you'd be surprised at how much, well, resentment it can generate to "have" to wear a piece of jewelry that you didn't pick, that is highly scrutinized, and which you don't love. You're looking to make a bold choice, here - be sure that it's what she would choose. $14k is a lot to spend on something without being sure that she will love it.
 
milton333|1323753920|3080311 said:
...you'd be surprised at how much, well, resentment it can generate to "have" to wear a piece of jewelry that you didn't pick, that is highly scrutinized, and which you don't love. You're looking to make a bold choice, here - be sure that it's what she would choose. $14k is a lot to spend on something without being sure that she will love it.
Click to expand...

This. I definitely think you need to do more recon on what your girlfriend wants.

I, too, love fancy colour diamonds and have said as much. If my husband were to surprise me with the stone you're looking at, however, I would be mortified because the only fancy colour I like is blue, and even then, only very specific blues. Definitely check on what she means when she says she "likes coloured diamonds" before you spend a lot on something she may not love.

A coloured engagement ring is a very big choice. When I got engaged, we didn't have the money for a blue diamond, so we went with a blue zircon and, eight years later, I'm in the market for a colourless stone. I still love my original ring, but that blue just started to bother me as it didn't look right with some of my nail polishes and clashed with my clothes too often (I know that sounds shallow, but over time it really did become an annoyance!). As I prefer to wear an engagement ring and wedding band all the time, I actually made a little visit to QVC to buy one of their Tacori knockoffs and have been wearing that as an e-ring for a few years, leaving my poor blue ring in the jewellery box 99% of the time. :sick:

Maybe it's controversial to say, but I also loathe solitaires, so I'd be equally mortified if my husband gave me one. That's not such a big deal, though, because the stone can always be reset. ;)

Have you thought about a colorless diamond accented by coloured stones? Maybe her birthstone? Or the birthstone of the month you met (or some other significant date)?
 
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