Help evaluating OEC w/ D-Color

[OECNoob]

Hi All,

I am new here, but have been extensively scouring the boards trying to learn about OEC diamonds. My partner would like an OEC, which is kind of freaking me out, because I am the kind of person who needs to learn everything about a topic before I can commit to something. From what I can tell, OECs are way more variable than a typical MRB, so you can't really go off the GIA cert alone.

Anyway, I am working a diamond dealer and he showed us a D-color OEC, which, from what I can tell, seems to be impossibly rare and, therefore, probably too good to be true. If I had to guess, maybe it's a newer stone cut to look like an OEC? Any advice or input would be tremendous!

I have some videos too, but wasn't sure how to upload them.

Thanks,

OECNoob

 

[distracts]

What is the clarity on the diamond? Is it dirty in the first two pics or are those inclusions?

 

[OECNoob]

What is the clarity on the diamond? Is it dirty in the first two pics or are those inclusions?

It's a VS1 with only a couple of clouds not visible to the eye-- we had just been handling it a lot at the end and I neglected to clean it before taking the pics.

I should add, it's also nearly 2cts and has very good symmetry.

 

[tyty333]

Who is this stone graded by? GIA? ???

OECs are harder to buy but we have several experts here on PS that can advise you.

Edit...you need to put the videos on youtube and then provide a link.

We usually look for flowery petals under the table that flash on/off when the stone is moved. Your pictures just arent
giving us enough info to tell one way or the other whether its a good stone.

 

[OECNoob]

Who is this stone graded by? GIA? ???

OECs are harder to buy but we have several experts here on PS that can advise you.

GIA

 

[missy]

Could you clean it really well and then do a video please. So we can better evaluate it

 

[missy]

How to upload videos. Make a YouTube link but under an account with no identifying info and post the YouTube link here

 

[OECNoob]

Could you clean it really well and then do a video please. So we can better evaluate it

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jvj4dioA59cLk5c29

It's the one on the right in the video with two diamonds

 

[tyty333]

Hum...there is something that seems not quite right but I can't put my finger on it (my opinion). Let others chime
in and get their views.

Edit...hard for me to know whether its the stone or the video.

 

[OECNoob]

How to upload videos. Make a YouTube link but under an account with no identifying info and post the YouTube link here

It's the one on the right in the video with two...

 

[Mreader]

Are you positive it’s GIA graded as in it has a GIA report? Because that’s different from a jeweler who has a degree from GIA grading it himself or herself. I say that because from the video at least it doesn’t look like a colorless stone.

 

[OECNoob]

Are you positive it’s GIA graded as in it has a GIA report? Because that’s different from a jeweler who has a degree from GIA grading it himself or herself. I saw that because from the video at least it doesn’t look like a colorless stone.

Honestly, I was not aware this was an option. It has a GIA report, but I am not sure about the grader or how I'd know? We saw it in person and it was definitely less yellow as compared to the other diamonds we looked at.

 

[OECNoob]

I'm trying to get some more videos.

 

[tyty333]

Honestly, I was not aware this was an option. It has a GIA report, but I am not sure about the grader or how I'd know? We saw it in person and it was definitely less yellow as compared to the other diamonds we looked at.

Ask to see a copy of the GIA report...ask for a soft copy and post it here.

 

[tyty333]

I'm trying to get some more videos.

Ask for them to be longer videos, face up, up close.

 

[OECNoob]

Ask to see a copy of the GIA report...ask for a soft copy and post it here.

I have the GIA number, but anyway this is the main part of the report. It's from 2020.

 

[Rfisher]

Anyway, I am working a diamond dealer and he showed us a D-color OEC, which, from what I can tell, seems to be impossibly rare and, therefore, probably too good to be true. If I had to guess, maybe it's a newer stone cut to look like an OEC? Any advice or input would be tremendous!

The part of the lab report you did attach states faceted girdle.
So it is a newly cut stone or it’s been heavily /totally rehabbed.

 

[OECNoob]

The part of the lab report you did attach states faceted girdle.
So it is a newly cut stone or it’s been heavily /totally rehabbed.

That's what I was suspecting. She likes the look of an OEC, but on the other hand, we were (are?) under the impression that maybe a D color and better symmetry, etc., would retain value better...not that we'd resell it, but it's a lot of money, so we're trying to be forward thinking.

 

[luvmysparklies]

I agree with Rfisher. The D color had my spidey senses tingling.....
The pic above with black background of the diamond tilted, the girdle does not look faceted. It could just be the distance and focus. But the other thing is if you wanted a truly old cut and not a "new" old cut, you should really get what you are paying for. Do you mind sharing approximately what the dealer is charging you?

There are experts here that will assist in you finding exactly what you are looking for. No sense in settling or not getting the very best deal you can for what you are offering money-wise. Since you had suspicions, just trust the folks here to find you a better deal. It would have been better if the dealer could have offered more info about the true provenance of the stone. Meaning, they see diamonds all the time and basically know if it is likely that a stone that old would likely have a faceted girdle and be this well cut. Back when OECs were being cut, Tiffany did cut OEC diamonds that look very similar to what is newly cut, with the flower pattern in the center. I have one, and I can tell you the girdle is very thin (almost comes to a point) and not faceted. Nothing wrong with a new old cut at all, but if you wanted the charm of a true old cut, it does not look like you would be getting that in this diamond.

 

[OECNoob]

I agree with Rfisher. The D color had my spidey senses tingling.....
The pic above with black background of the diamond tilted, the girdle does not look faceted. It could just be the distance and focus. But the other thing is if you wanted a truly old cut and not a "new" old cut, you should really get what you are paying for. Do you mind sharing approximately what the dealer is charging you?

There are experts here that will assist in you finding exactly what you are looking for. No sense in settling or not getting the very best deal you can for what you are offering money-wise. Since you had suspicions, just trust the folks here to find you a better deal. It would have been better if the dealer could have offered more info about the true provenance of the stone. Meaning, they see diamonds all the time and basically know if it is likely that a stone that old would likely have a faceted girdle and be this well cut. Back when OECs were being cut, Tiffany did cut OEC diamonds that look very similar to what is newly cut, with the flower pattern in the center. I have one, and I can tell you the girdle is very thin (almost comes to a point) and not faceted. Nothing wrong with a new old cut at all, but if you wanted the charm of a true old cut, it does not look like you would be getting that in this diamond.

I appreciate this insight. The dealer wanted $31,000 and was only slightly marking it up from their source (our dealer is a friend of a friend situation). They weren't really hiding the fact that it could be retouched, but I think OECs are not necessarily their forte either. He also showed us a few other options as well which were seemingly closer to a true OEC, but again, I am really only book smart about this stuff, because of what I read. I do not have an eye for what is authentic or prototypical. We were gravitating towards the D, because of the paper stats more so than anything.

There was also a 2 CT G-color which we liked a lot too which was about the same price.

 

[DAF]

I see color and the facet pattern isn't as floral or checkerboard as I would prefer.

 

[evergreen]

I wouldn't plan to buy a diamond with the intent that it retain value, full stop. Buy what your eyes love! If that's high color, or if the D on the paper really matters, it's true you'll have limited options in D (true antique or rehabbed/newly-cut, which I agree this one likely is). There have been a lot of threads on the reasons that, for a normal consumer, diamonds cannot be a smart "investment." Plan to lose half of what you paid on resale.

So... Get what works with your budget, and what's beautiful to your eye/your intended's eye!

 

[DAF]

It's been my experience that you can go lower color with OECs and not have it noticed as much - probably due to the chunky facets.

 

[luvmysparklies]

I appreciate this insight. The dealer wanted $31,000 and was only slightly marking it up from their source (our dealer is a friend of a friend situation). They weren't really hiding the fact that it could be retouched, but I think OECs are not necessarily their forte either. He also showed us a few other options as well which were seemingly closer to a true OEC, but again, I am really only book smart about this stuff, because of what I read. I do not have an eye for what is authentic or prototypical. We were gravitating towards the D, because of the paper stats more so than anything.

There was also a 2 CT G-color which we liked a lot too which was about the same price.

This is reasonable. I want to be clear that I was not meaning what I said in a disparaging way. There are some jewelers/sellers/dealers that did handle OECs back when they were considered "less than" in deference to MRBs and were re-cut to MRB standards--and may not have dealt with or handled these OECs in a very long time.

If you will outline specs of what you are looking for in size range, color, clarity, earth-mined or lab (and if lab there is another sub-forum where you would list your specs) and whether or not you want truly old cut or if you are amenable to newly cut, the experts here always do an outstanding job of helping to find what you are looking for. It really is a supportive forum!

 

[LightBright]

IMO high priced due to rarity.

To me, this diamond is rare and even if rehabbed, looks authentic and might be impossible to find again. You could commission a new Antique Cut superideal though.

If the diamond is newly cut or even rehabbed, I still like it. A D color antique cut with a high crown and small table will be beautiful (I think the cut is pretty).

Before you jump in, please tell us what you are looking for.

Diameter size
Color
True Antique (untouched or rehabbed?)
Modern superideal “antique cut” (they are beautiful too, but a more standardized look and modern standards of light return).
Cut style (Old European Cut, Old Mine Cut, Antique Cushion Cut, Transitional, Early Modern Brilliant) would you consider fancy cuts like Movals, etc.

You could stop now if you are okay with that price and okay with it being rehabbed or newly cut. Faceted girdle guarantees that.

Personally, I think it is pretty, decent size (and a D!) but I could not get into your other photos beyond your first post.

 

[LightBright]

I agree with Rfisher. The D color had my spidey senses tingling.....
The pic above with black background of the diamond tilted, the girdle does not look faceted. It could just be the distance and focus. But the other thing is if you wanted a truly old cut and not a "new" old cut, you should really get what you are paying for. Do you mind sharing approximately what the dealer is charging you?

There are experts here that will assist in you finding exactly what you are looking for. No sense in settling or not getting the very best deal you can for what you are offering money-wise. Since you had suspicions, just trust the folks here to find you a better deal. It would have been better if the dealer could have offered more info about the true provenance of the stone. Meaning, they see diamonds all the time and basically know if it is likely that a stone that old would likely have a faceted girdle and be this well cut. Back when OECs were being cut, Tiffany did cut OEC diamonds that look very similar to what is newly cut, with the flower pattern in the center. I have one, and I can tell you the girdle is very thin (almost comes to a point) and not faceted. Nothing wrong with a new old cut at all, but if you wanted the charm of a true old cut, it does not look like you would be getting that in this diamond.

I also found it hard to see the faceted girdle In these photos. It looks bruted (frosted) to me. A faceted girdle is usually polished. Confused.

 

[OECNoob]

I really appreciate all the support. It is definitely calming my nerves a bit and assuaging my concerns. I'll repost these in the other forum too, but for insight, we are looking for the following:
Old European Cut, round
2-ish cts
G or higher color
VS2 or higher clarity
Decent symmetry, polish (difficult on an OEC, but whatever is reasonable)
I don't think it has to be truly antique, but ultimately my partner is attracted to OECs because she enjoys looking at the shape of the diamond mores so than the "bling" of a contemporary cut. She appreciates the uniformity and flashes of the light patterns versus the more scattered appearance of newer ones.

I think the D one kind of fit the bill, so that was the appeal there, but if it doesn't actually "look" like an OEC, then I'd be getting the wrong thing.

We're going to use it to create an engagement ring along the lines of this:

 

[evergreen]

I couldn't tell about the girdle from the videos, but the GIA cert states the girdle is faceted. Has anyone seen GIA misinterpret a bruted girdle as faceted?

 

[OECNoob]

I also found it hard to see the faceted girdle In these photos. It looks bruted (frosted) to me. A faceted girdle is usually polished. Confused.

I'm waiting to hear back from our source with more photos/videos.

 

[OECNoob]

I'm waiting to hear back from our source with more photos/videos.

In the meantime, I have a couple other photos in my gallery which might be a little clearer on the girdle...