Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget.

[Ryangreene555]

Hey everyone. Well I've been searching all around. Local jewelers as well as online for a nice diamond to get for my gf to pop the question.

Most local places seems to mostly have egl certified diamonds. Online I have been looking at bluenile and a couple of others but so hard to see how they look without seeing them in person. Bluenile many they report being milky etc.


My budget is around 10k.

I am looking for 1.4-1.5ct solitaire round brilliant.

Hoping to be in H or better color and an eye clean si2 clarity with excellent cut, polish and symmetry.

I found an EGL-Israel 1.4 carrat diamond locally.

It was rated at D in color and SI1. After inspecting it with diamond jeweler we matched it up against GIA certified diamonds and looks like the color shows as a GIA H color and SI2 clarity. Definitely eye clean besides 1 tiny pin head size black spot off the table.

He is asking $9250 for this stone.

Online I have found a 1.51 carrat Gia from blue Nile. H color si2. They said eye clean and no milky ness and excellent on all cut levels and non fluorescent for both of them.

Any input? Or better options out there within my price range?

I definitely want to get a solitaire engagement ring so I really want the stone to look really nice. From looking in person a lot of the si2 stones look really nice and I don't see the inclusions without using the 10X magnification.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

1. There is NO WAY that stone by EGL Israel is an H. EGL Israel is the WORST of the EGL labs. And that's saying something. It is so bad people are SUING over their lab reports.

2. Any dealer who is SERIOUSLY trying to talk you into an EGL Israel lab report is NOT someone you should trust to do anything... except rob you blind. Any jeweler who tells you that EGL Israel lab graded stone is worth your money and as good as GIA is lying to you.

3. Your budget is not reasonable for what you want. I'm sorry. You are not getting an ACCURATELY graded eyeclean H 1.5 carat stone for your budget. You aren't.

4. I am very glad you posted here. You are exactly the type of poster we are here for. You have money, unrealistic expectations and just enough knowledge to get yourself ripped of by a bad dealer.

Here is an analogy. You are the equivalent of a buyer walking into a car dealership and telling them that you want a Blue Small SUV and you have a budget of XXX and you want the best SUV for your budget. You don't know anything about cars. Just how to drive one, and which shades of blue you like and you don't like. You don't understand safety ratings, you don't understand fuel mileage, and you only have a vague idea of how resale values impact car costs, how maintenance costs can add up, what the difference safety features such as ABS breaks, and airbags that are not required but are good to have are. But you do know that you want a nice stereo and power seats, windows, and doors.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/27/consumer-reports-worst-cars-2014/

Now, would you buy a car with that much knowledge? No. Why? Because it's not a good idea.

But say you do and the car dealer is telling you that the Honda CRV (which is what you should be buying) that you can afford doesn't come standard with a nice stereo and power seats, windows, and doors. BUT he KNOWS that the Jeep Compass does. And he drives them out in front of you and has you do a test drive.

You say... great. I'll buy it. Why? Because with you limited knowledge it meets your criteria. It's Blue. It's a SMALL SUV. It has a nice stereo and power seats, windows, and doors. And that's all you think you need.

Well. A GOOD DEALER would tell you... Here's WHY for your budget you should get the Honda CRV instead of a Patriot, even though the one in your budget doesn't have: a nice stereo and power seats, windows, and doors.

A good dealer would educate you on safety, resale value, and CAR QUALITY. And you would, being a reasonable person, agree that the Jeep Compass is not a good deal. Even though it seemed to be, before you were educated.

That's what I am here for. I'm here to educate you. So hold on, strap in and get your reading glasses on.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Please read and STUDY the below links (and if there are links posted in them, follow them and read them) .

1. On EGL:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/israel-egl.129920/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/israel-egl.129920/[/URL]

2. On diamonds:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

3. On diamond color:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.


If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Stones you should consider:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-1982317-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=1982317&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5164373-1.42-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5164373&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5185379-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=5185379&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com if eyeclean (it could be). Get an idealscope.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5107509-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5107509&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com if eyeclean

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5307050-1.45-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5307050&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Also that stone is SO overpriced I am in AWE.

Price comparisons:
http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=15499963&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps This one is a 1.5 carat stone, NOT a 1.4 It is EGL Israel $6,809 So your stone should be CHEAPER than this one.


This one isn't even EGL Israel (which, since the lab is so crappy is DEEPLY discounted. So this stone is WORTH more than yours, period):
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=D55390&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope $7,105 And your stone should be CHEAPER than this one.

Another 1.5 carat EGL USA: http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=15511525&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps


As near as I can figure... you are being deeply overcharged on top of it all.

RUN, do not walk away from this dealer.

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Hey everyone. Well I've been searching all around. Local jewelers as well as online for a nice diamond to get for my gf to pop the question.

Most local places seems to mostly have egl certified diamonds. Online I have been looking at bluenile and a couple of others but so hard to see how they look without seeing them in person. Bluenile many they report being milky etc.


My budget is around 10k.

I am looking for 1.4-1.5ct solitaire round brilliant.

Hoping to be in H or better color and an eye clean si2 clarity with excellent cut, polish and symmetry.

I found an EGL-Israel 1.4 carrat diamond locally.

It was rated at D in color and SI1. After inspecting it with diamond jeweler we matched it up against GIA certified diamonds and looks like the color shows as a GIA H color and SI2 clarity. Definitely eye clean besides 1 tiny pin head size black spot off the table.

He is asking $9250 for this stone.

Online I have found a 1.51 carrat Gia from blue Nile. H color si2. They said eye clean and no milky ness and excellent on all cut levels and non fluorescent for both of them.

Any input? Or better options out there within my price range?

I definitely want to get a solitaire engagement ring so I really want the stone to look really nice. From looking in person a lot of the si2 stones look really nice and I don't see the inclusions without using the 10X magnification.

Hi Ryan and welcome!

Gypsy has given you a great intro and a solid way to go forward with this project. For the budget, you are really going to have trouble finding a reliably graded, well cut H or higher stone in that size. I would suggest considering lowering the colour grade a bit, we don't have much wiggle room with clarity as you are already considering SI anyway. But if you would think about I or J colour, a lot more options will be open to you, plus these colour grades that are reliably graded by GIA/AGS could look as white or whiter than a stone graded higher for colour by a lab less strict, especially with well cut diamonds.

Also, you mention you have an option from BN, go ahead and post all the info here then we can tell you whether it's worth further consideration or not.

We are ready and willing to help you and we will help you find something beautiful for your beloved, it's an exciting time!

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Thanks a lot guys! I did want to avoid the egl Israel especially. This dealer atleast acknowledged they are inferior and thus he said the D color was actually an H and si1 was an si2.
I will still avoid this one I think. To me it looked good and very bright but I am not familiar enough with diamonds to really be able to tell.

I will start looking for ideal scope images to try and learn more about that.


This is the stone from bluenile. They checked and said it was an eye clean diamond and no cloudiness or milkyness in the diamond.


http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04661516

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Thanks a lot guys! I did want to avoid the egl Israel especially. This dealer atleast acknowledged they are inferior and thus he said the D color was actually an H and si1 was an si2.
I will still avoid this one I think. To me it looked good and very bright but I am not familiar enough with diamonds to really be able to tell.

I will start looking for ideal scope images to try and learn more about that.


This is the stone from bluenile. They checked and said it was an eye clean diamond and no cloudiness or milkyness in the diamond.


http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04661516

Actually, the BN diamond has potential if BN are positive there are no issues with transparency/ loss of brilliance with the twinning wisps and it is eye clean to your standards. Have you checked it meets your expectations for ' eye cleanliness'? For example, if you don't want to see any visible inclusions from any angle or distance, in any lighting? If not, make sure as the industry definition of an eye clean stone is face up in normal lighting from a distance of around 10 - 12 inches. This diamond is facing up a little small, a well cut 1.5 ct should measure around 7.5mm, this stone is a little small face up for the weight but otherwise, it does look promising with the overall proportions depending on a few factors we can't judge without images, it might be worth taking a look definitely.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

They said the eye clean means viewing from top at the 10-12 inches away. Not up close is their definition of eye clean I guess.

Only way to take a look would be to pay for it and have it shipped I guess right?

Diamond doesn't have to be a 1.5. 1.35-1.4 etc would be plenty good. I'm not all about the size of it but need it to be very brilliant!

Bluenile custome service seems to be fairly weak! I asked if they could find a stone that meets my requirements etc that is eye clean and they told me that is not something they are able to do.

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

They said the eye clean means viewing from top at the 10-12 inches away. Not up close is their definition of eye clean I guess.

Only way to take a look would be to pay for it and have it shipped I guess right?

Diamond doesn't have to be a 1.5. 1.35-1.4 etc would be plenty good. I'm not all about the size of it but need it to be very brilliant!

Bluenile custome service seems to be fairly weak! I asked if they could find a stone that meets my requirements etc that is eye clean and they told me that is not something they are able to do.

Yes, BN do have a 30 day approval period and yes, that's usual with the industry eye clean definition. I will take a look to see what else is out there, also check out Gypsy's selections, she normally finds some good ones!

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

This diamond might fit the bill if eye clean to your standards, WF will be able to advise you there.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3114555.htm?source=pricescope

Another good one, as above, check it is eye clean.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063719.htm?source=pricescope

I colour in case that's acceptable to you, this colour grade with a great cut will still look very white.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172035.htm?source=pricescope

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

I posted a bunch of stones for you above. Check thwm out. They have great potential.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Thank you! I took a look at those diamonds. So what do I do to check them out haha? Ask them for ideal scopes and if eye clean etc I guess?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Images.of the stones that do.not.have actual posted. Ideal scopes. Eyeclean.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

I was browsing on whiteflash site and came across this one. How does the light performance look? I don't really know how to read those images yet.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075979.htm

A little lower in price for almost a 1.4 but an SI1 instead of VS2.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

WIll most local jewelers install a diamond if I brought it to them and found a setting I liked in their store? I wouldn't want to get a setting online I don't think as my gf wants a very specific one it seems and hard to tell how it looks online.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

First, what kind of setting does your lady want? Please post examples or pictures.

Second, yes most jewelers will allow you to set an outside stone in their setting. You do have to get insurance for it first, but that's an easy thing to do.

If you want to avoid that, you can buy the setting locally, give them the lab report information for the diamond details (since you are buying a round) and have them make the setting for you. Then you would send the setting to the stone vendor and the stone vendor would set the stone in it.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Ok thanks!

She wants a very simple solitaire setting. Narrow, 6 prong and white gold. Locally she found one that had some very small stones front and back of mount. I'll see if I can find any pictures. At first she wanted completely plain setting but after seeing that one she has her heart set on it.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Then buy the one she wants. I'd still like to see a picture.

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

It's at the same place that egl diamond is at haha. Would be weird buying it there and not the diamond. Also if he really was trying to rip me off id hate to give business there.

How important is the frequent cleanings and checks on the ring?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Any jeweler will do that for you. I get mine checked out at my local jeweler. Except for places like Tiffany almost any jeweler will do that for you free of charge while you browse.

You need insurance for theft, loss, or damage anyway. Regardless of where you buy it.

If the setting is at that jeweler... then please post a picture. Is it like any of these:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/swan-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-310.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/ritani-6-prong-solitaire-engagement-ring-1971.htm
http://www.mwmjewelry.com/T_M_Torchiere/

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

Somewhat similar to the first one but different haha. It has much smaller diamonds and none of the loops like that. It was just maybe 6 or so tiny diamonds in a row I guess on each side just to give it a little more shine than being completely solitaire only.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/fleurette-6-prong-bouquet-inspired-solitaire-engagement-ring-bpid-70-18.html

 

[Ryangreene555]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

The stones were really small on it and more in a line on the from and back. Not sides. There were tiny stones. That jeweler made their own custom jewelry in house I believe.

Looks like she changed her mind again and was talking about maybe just a plain thin Tiffany style soliatire setting again haha. Oh boy. She likes to change her mind a lot.

 

[Lorelei]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

The stones were really small on it and more in a line on the from and back. Not sides. There were tiny stones. That jeweler made their own custom jewelry in house I believe.

Looks like she changed her mind again and was talking about maybe just a plain thin Tiffany style soliatire setting again haha. Oh boy. She likes to change her mind a lot.

The diamond you posted above Ryan should be a lovely stone. If you want to learn how to read images, these are good tutorials written by a real expert!

http://www.winkjones.com/index.php?page=education-performance

http://www.winkjones.com/index.php?page=education-precision

As for your lady changing her mind? That's just how it will be!

 

[SirGuy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

There's some very good advice in this thread. The old adage of "You get what you pay for" applies.

As far as cleaning and checks on the ring, I'd have it checked at least once a year to see if it needs to be polished or re-plated, and more importantly to check the security of the prongs. Cleaning is up to you, but know that a dirty diamond (and yes, they love grime, oil, and dirt) will not perform as well as when it's freshly cleaned. Some folks do it every few weeks. Maintenance is an important part of this kind of jewelry.

Gypsy, I quite like the ERD setting you posted! The melee in the head are an interesting touch.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help deciding on diamond for engagement ring! 10k budget

How about this? Would she like this: http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/the-julia-solitaire/