Help - Decide on EGL Cert. Diamond

[cluu]

My boyfriend and I need help deciding if this diamond is a good value. We have a budget of up to $10,000 but would like to have that include the setting as well. If anyone could help me decipher the EGL certificate I'd appreciate it! I have read up a lot on how EGL has less strict standards, and would appreciate your input on that as well.

$8,500
Round Brilliant
1.72 cts
SI1 , H
Graining: Nil
Fluorescence: None

7.80 - 7.74 X 4.61 MM.
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions -
Total Depth: 59.4%
Table Width: 60%
Crown Height: 14%
Pavilion Depth: 42%
Girdle Thickness: Medium

Finish -
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None

The report also has a comment of "ideal cut" - the proportions of this diamond are within tolerance of those proposed by Marcel Tolkowsky. I read the Marcel Tolkowsky Ideal Cut info and it says he predicted a 'range or proportions', so I'm hoping this diamond is in the best range.

It returned an HCA of 1.8 (Excellent range) but this is an EGL report so I only had Crown % and Pavilion %. I know under 2 means it has weeded out a known poor performer, however I don't have an idealscope image available.



My boyfriend's family friend is in the wholesale jewelry business and recommended this diamond. She told us it is completely eye clean and hearts and arrows.

I greatly appreciate any help. Please let me know what else I should ask, do or post to help!

 

[Candygrl]

The diamond experts will be along shortly to help you pick out a much better diamond. EGL is not the way to go. Way too loose on the grading. Hang tight.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Diamonds with EGL certs are heavily discounted because of soft and inconsistent grading. There are different EGL labs operating around the world and some have worse reputations than others for grading accuracy. There is no accurate factor for equating an EGL grade to a GIA grade. There are documented cases of K colors being graded G ! Your stone may be fairly accurate or it may be way off. It would certainly be wise to get a knowledgeable independent expert to consult with you about the stone. Sometimes a friend of the family can have some interest in the sale, so better to go outside and get a truly unbiased assessment. Or look for a diamond graded by GIA or AGS.

 

[Gypsy]

Read this in its entirety. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]

Stone is a poorly performing 60/60, read this: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond


That stone is a full on pass. And so is any jeweler who is telling you to buy it.

 

[Gypsy]

AFTER, the above, read this and click on the links. You need more knowledge.


The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[cluu]

I'm grateful for the expertise of this site and users while I embark on a crash course in diamond knowledge. The knowledge and advice is really helpful!

The person recommending the diamond is the mother of my boyfriend's friend. She's sourced diamonds for a long time and believes EGL diamonds to be good deals. My boyfriend is convinced and trusts her so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and make sure I understand before attempting to convince him otherwise. Sorry if I seemed impatient

I was hoping the EGL certification wouldn't be as bad as it seemed. After further research (thanks Gypsy!) I realize that's not the case and GIA/AGS are the way to go.

What I'm gathering I should do is:

1. Search for a AGS0 / GIA Ex diamond
2. Apply HCA (not for AGS0). If less than 2 it passes.
3. Check light performance with idealscope image - if excellent light return, you've found your diamond!

Would this be the best process for diamonds that fall into the very good or near-excellent category, ie AGS1 or GIA Very Good? I assume it is a poor decision to drop from AGS0/GIA Ex to AGS1/GIA Very Good as the cut will always make the diamond appear larger/more stunning?

I'm on the hunt for some good options and will hopefully be closer to a pretty one next time around!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I'm grateful for the expertise of this site and users while I embark on a crash course in diamond knowledge. The knowledge and advice is really helpful!

The person recommending the diamond is the mother of my boyfriend's friend. She's sourced diamonds for a long time and believes EGL diamonds to be good deals. My boyfriend is convinced and trusts her so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and make sure I understand before attempting to convince him otherwise. Sorry if I seemed impatient

I was hoping the EGL certification wouldn't be as bad as it seemed. After further research (thanks Gypsy!) I realize that's not the case and GIA/AGS are the way to go.

What I'm gathering I should do is:

1. Search for a AGS0 / GIA Ex diamond
2. Apply HCA (not for AGS0). If less than 2 it passes.
3. Check light performance with idealscope image - if excellent light return, you've found your diamond!

Would this be the best process for diamonds that fall into the very good or near-excellent category, ie AGS1 or GIA Very Good? I assume it is a poor decision to drop from AGS0/GIA Ex to AGS1/GIA Very Good as the cut will always make the diamond appear larger/more stunning?

I'm on the hunt for some good options and will hopefully be closer to a pretty one next time around!

Cluu,
You are a fast learner and definitely on the right track (credits to Gypsy). I would also suggest you pay special attention to clarity characteristics. All the good work you are doing on the cut/light performance side can be undermined if you make the wrong compromises on clarity.

 

[OoohShiny]

I would say to your BF and family that you appreciate their help but don't want to mix business with pleasure.

You can then purchase a much better AGS or GIA stone online.

If they are resistant, I would say you should suggest to them you 'try' an online stone buy purchasing it and then returning it if it's not good enough - you can then compare it to the EGL stone and I am quite sure the AGS/GIA stone will obviously look sparklier, have better colour, and be more attractive due to better light return, fire and scintillation. If they can see this for themselves, they should back off the pressure! It may appear more expensive for the same specs on paper but that's because the EGL is likely to be several grades lower in real life, so it's cheaper for the paper specs but the right price for the actual specs it is!

As gypsy has said, only one out of all the 'friends and family friends' scenarios has ended well, and she's been here a long time so has seen it all!

Be strong, resist the pressure, source a low-HCA score AGS000 or GIA XXX stone and you will love it



What setting are you looking at?

What colour / carat / clarity would you like to get if at all possible?

We can get searching for you

 

[Gypsy]

Regarding clarity. We usually recommend eyeclean Si1 and above for clarity. But as Brian says, it is best to work with a vendor that has stones in house and on hand and can evaluate the diamonds to make sure the inclusions are safe the the stones are eyeclean to your standards. We also have a strong a preference for vendors that can provide large magnified pictures of the stones.

If you are looking for a nice amount of size for your budget I high recommend Ior J color and Si1 clarity .

 

[Gypsy]

This is what your budget buys you with a correctly graded stone:

I SI1: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.29-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-329855 Lovely stone
J SI1: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.51-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-303393 nice stone! hopefully it will be eyeclean

That's what you are looking at. The stones above are from JA. They have a 60 day no questions asked full refund return policy. They pay shipping both ways. Additionally they have an upgrade policy. They will provide you with an idealscope image upon request for up to 3 stones per purchase. They are a Google Trusted Store. Here is the BBB record: http://www.bbb.org/greater-maryland/business-reviews/jewelers-retail/jamesallencom-in-frederick-md-22011065

Any person that tells you tall tales about the 'risks' of buying from the internet (they make up all kinds of things, stone switching, fake gold in settings, etc.) is not your friend. And anyone who told you that EGL diamond was a good stone for your budget, frankly isn't your friend too.

You can have a stone bought online set locally after you get insurance (very easy). Or you can buy a setting from the same vendor that you buy the stone from.

JA has hundreds of good quality settings, here are a few:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/side-stones/-platinum-tapered-baguette-diamond-engagement-ring-item-1206
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-tailored-diamond-engagement-ring-item-41126
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-rounded-pave-engagement-solitaire-item-8162
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/side-stones/platinum-single-bar-set-engagement-ring-item-7857
http://www.jamesallen.com/wedding-rings/classic/18k-white-gold-pave-set-engagement-ring-round-center-item-18457

 

[cluu]

Read this in its entirety. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]

Stone is a poorly performing 60/60, read this: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond


That stone is a full on pass. And so is any jeweler who is telling you to buy it.

Hi Gypsy,

Thank you so much for your awesome suggestions. I have been looking at James Allen and they have some beautiful diamonds and settings, plus great policies, accreditation etc.

I was curious if you could elaborate on a poorly performing 60/60? I want to understand what the numbers all mean, not just understand how to get to them.

My question is more related to understanding HCA and 60/60 diamonds and the relationship with crown and pavilion angles. Because this diamond is EGL certified the crown depth % and pavilion depth % are provided, rather than angles, so is that a factor in it being a poor performer?

Is it possible to find a 60/60 with a good HCA, and if the idealscope shows good light return, it be a great diamond? How did you know that this is a poorly performing 60/60 from crown and height depth? I'm worried if this were GIA and it received an HCA of 1.8 it would lead me to think this was a good diamond, so how do I know (from the numbers) it's not?

My second question is related to EGL certs. I understand now why AGS and GIA diamonds are superior to EGL. Despite EGL grading this as Excellent, H, SI1, it is most likely in the range of a I-J, SI1-SI2 and the cut could be a range from excellent to good. So despite on paper the diamond looking like a bargain, you're really paying for what you get if it had the proper info on the certification.

If I am looking for a 1.25-1.75 carat diamond, H-J, VS2-SI2 (eye clean) excellent/ideal cut diamond would it be too risky if I found an EGL that my have these characteristics in real life, but the paper report says G, VS1, Excellent? I hope this makes sense. I'm just not finding a diamond that is quite the size I had gotten my hopes up for with all the right combos and HCA
In the mean time, I found a couple diamonds that appear to be very beautiful. I was hoping someone could weigh in and tell me if I am analyzing everything properly? I want to make sure I'm catching on

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5001219-1.51-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI2-clarity.aspx
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5136835-1.52-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-clarity.aspx
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.66-carat-j-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-232948
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.56-carat-j-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-321976

Any help is greatly appreciated. I feel a LOT better about explaining this to my boyfriend and he seems open to looking elsewhere. Can't say thanks enough for everyone's help, time and advice