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Help choosing between 2 diamonds

Klaus

Klaus

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
82
Hello Pricescopers! I've been reading this forum over the last few weeks as I've picked out a new diamond ring and it has been tremendously informative. I'm now deliberating between two diamonds and I'd love y'all's input.

Diamond A: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3316899

Diamond B (cost $5600): https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4504710

I bought Diamond B and it's currently being placed into a ring by James Allen, but since I purchased I've been re-thinking the J color (no offense I know there are some gorgeous J diamonds, but I am extremely color sensitive and I think I will be bothered by the tint.) However, I'm worried that Diamond A will look too cloudy in person, based on the pictures. My budget maxes out at $6500 and I'd prefer a diamond bigger than 1 carat.

I do know there is no substitute for seeing a diamond in person, and I'm fully prepared to exchange whatever diamond I get if I am not satisfied once I receive it. But just based on the information you have here, which would you select? Thanks!!
 
@Klaus Do NOT exchange for the F SI2-clarity is based on clouds not shown and it will definitely be cloudy. The stone you chose is a nice 60/60 that will favor white light return, which will be bright and likely help the J color.

This would be a very nice choice: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4447045
I'd ask if this stone is eye clean: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3322454
$30 over budget but if the IF clarity intrigues you...https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2882492
 
Thank you for the response ac! I think my current J looks beautiful in the pictures and seems to have excellent light return, but since ordering I've been obsessing over J colored diamonds online and I honestly do think I would be bothered by the yellow tint, even if it is just from the side. The others you picked are also very nice. I suppose this is the downside about buying online if you are not super familiar with seeing diamonds in person. It's possible the cloudiness in the F wouldn't bother me... I think a slight yellow in a J would bug me more over time than slight cloudiness in an F. But it's impossible to know for sure! Very stressful.
 
Alright guys, after obsessively pouring over specs, I'm now deciding between those last two that I posted. What say you? o_O
 
Klaus said:
@ ac I really like this one that you suggested: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2882492

I also like this one: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4505614
Click to expand...

The I VS2 is not a contender-it's not well cut! It's too deep so it faces up slightly smaller but more importantly, the angles aren't complimentary. The pavilion angle is way too high pecially for the crown angle. We recommend a PA of no greater than 41, but usually will a lower CA of 33.5 or 34.

Any of the other stones I posted is far better than the I VS2. The 1.15 I IF is a beautiful stone-IF is overkill for clarity but since there is barely a premium for it in this case I threw it out there. However, I feel you want to hit the 1.2 mark, I'd choose the I SI1....though the actual size difference if you look at the dimensions is only .07, and it's less expensive.
 
Wow I thought I knew a lot about diamonds but it turns out I know very little past the four Cs. ;)2 I honestly had not been considering cut in that much detail, so I'm glad I asked!

And even though the IF is overkill as far as what's visible to the naked eye, my partner is really really into clarity and likes the idea of IF as much as anything, so for him it was worth the small premium. So, we went with the 1.15! Thank you for suggesting it - I would not have found it otherwise.

I did want to hit the 1.2 mark, but I kept the 1.15 in contention since we're talking about such a tiny difference between that beautiful 1.15 and every 1.2 I was looking at (the face up size of every other 1.2 was the same or only like .04 mm bigger in diameter which would be nearly invisible I'm sure).
 
Klaus said:
Wow I thought I knew a lot about diamonds but it turns out I know very little past the four Cs. ;)2 I honestly had not been considering cut in that much detail, so I'm glad I asked!

And even though the IF is overkill as far as what's visible to the naked eye, my partner is really really into clarity and likes the idea of IF as much as anything, so for him it was worth the small premium. So, we went with the 1.15! Thank you for suggesting it - I would not have found it otherwise.

I did want to hit the 1.2 mark, but I kept the 1.15 in contention since we're talking about such a tiny difference between that beautiful 1.15 and every 1.2 I was looking at (the face up size of every other 1.2 was the same or only like .04 mm bigger in diameter which would be nearly invisible I'm sure).
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That's great!!!! :appl:Please come back with hand shots!!! What setting did you choose?

Also, ask JA for a Pricescope or advantage discount, if you haven't already! Will save you a few bucks!
 
I have been drooling over diamond pics here for weeks, so I want to pay it forward and post pics of my own when I get it! Unfortunately it won't be for a couple weeks - I'm sure you guys feel my pain on waiting. :cry2:

My partner chose this setting in platinum, which I think will showcase the diamond beautifully: https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...dern-tulip-diamond-engagement-ring-item-51014

Long sad story, but this new ring will replace my previous .8 ct diamond ring, which was lost. I'm a size 5, and I was looking for a high quality substantial stone that would look noticeably bigger than the .8, but not too big (subjective I know) since I am very low key with jewelry. (And let's be real, my partner is not on board the five figure jewelry train yet.)

Excited! :dance:
 
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Klaus said:
I have been drooling over diamond pics here for weeks, so I want to pay it forward and post pics of my own when I get it! Unfortunately it won't be for a couple weeks - I'm sure you guys feel my pain on waiting. :cry2:

My partner chose this setting in platinum, which I think will showcase the diamond beautifully: https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...dern-tulip-diamond-engagement-ring-item-51014

Long sad story, but this new ring will replace my previous .8 ct diamond ring, which was lost. I'm a size 5, and I was looking for a high quality substantial stone that would look noticeably bigger than the .8, but not too big (subjective I know) since I am very low key with jewelry. (And let's be real, my partner is not on board the five figure jewelry train yet.)

Excited! :dance:
Click to expand...

Beautiful choice!!! I would also ask JA if they could give you delicate claw prongs. Sorry to hear about your lost original-rest assured this will be noticeably larger and gorgeous!
 
Ooohh, talk to me about the prongs! Do you think the claw prongs will look too bulky? I would worry that more delicate prongs would not hold the stone as well, and it seems like the claws were popular with others. Am I missing something?
 
They're not less secure-they are shaped and polished so they look delicate instead of looking like blobs. If you look at the recently purchased rings under that setting, many of them actually have the prettier claw prongs.
 
Gotcha. Yes I don't want them to look too blobby, and that did occur to me when my partner showed me the stock photo. But JA seems to do a good job on the actual rings. I'll shoot them a note to make sure the prongs more closely resemble the photos of the actual rings. I swear I alone am making JA regret that 24/7 chat feature. I must have had a half dozen chats just deciding on switching the diamond. :D
 
Aaaand now I'm second-guessing myself! I'm really trying to learn about diamond cut, but there is so much to know! And it seems like no matter what diamond I find that I like (that's in my budget) there is some kind of downside that nags at me. With the last, you were right, I wanted just a teensy more size. We've increased the budget and are looking at the below. It must be James Allen and it must be IF (my partner's new obsession). I know one is pretty deep but it still looks nice! Ugh. Any thoughts on the below are greatly appreciated!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3087210

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1776418

(not available because I bought it but can still swap out for another - it's so deep, any chance it will still look good?)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4568376

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4525862
 
Deep diamonds don't look as good as well cut stones. AND they will have less diameter (i.e., look smaller). Pick from the ones selected for you by seasoned searchers here. IF clarity, while your new obsession, will not be apparent to anyone, except your wallet. The one @ac117 found you (that you bought) did NOT have the usual premium. You're unnecessarily limiting your options. Cut first, then balance out the other stuff.

(And stop reshopping after you pick the perfect stone. Save up for your upgrade-must be double at JA) :cool2:
 
Thanks for your post ringo! You have some great points as far as finding the best diamond possible on a budget - I definitely understand what you're saying and I understand that cut is of utmost importance. And I really appreciated ac's input, but ultimately decided I wanted to go slightly bigger and we increased our budget, so now my search parameters have changed. I agree I DO need to make a decision and stick with it! But I'm not going to upgrade, so this really needs to be it for me, and I wanted to go a little bigger. IF is important to my partner, even though I told him it's more expensive and not likely visible to the naked eye. Something I liked about the posts on pricescope is that you guys seem to account for personal preference when it comes to diamonds, even if it's not 100% objectively rationally "worth" the cost (e.g. insisting on D color instead of E, or wanting to hit a specific carat benchmark, like 1 ct., for emotional reasons). We've all got our preferences right? At the end of the day, the purpose of the diamond is to please aesthetically and make us happy, not perform a rational function per se, and we've all got to decide which combo of of the four C's we're willing to live with within the budget we have. :D So this is the new balance of the four C's that works for us: excellent cut, 1.2+ carat, IF clarity, I color.

I understand the importance of cut - though I do not yet fully understand how the angles of "excellent" cut GIA stones work to make some stone worthwhile and others not. The four I posted above are within my new parameters, so I'd greatly appreciate any input on those!
 
My bad- I should have been more specific since this is what I'm really asking: What are y'all's opinions on the cuts of the four stones I posted above? I love the specs on the 1.38 other than the depth. Is it possible this stone will still have good fire and brilliance in person? It looks good in the photos to me, but I don't know what I'm looking at as well as people here. I also like the 1.30, but the table seems huge! Is that a big deal? I'm trying to learn as much as I can online, but the way all the angles and measurements work together is still a mystery.
 
Just a note about IF that you might discuss with your partner. IF is only IF under 10x magnification. Under 11x, 12x, 15x 100x there are flaws. All diamonds have flaws. I don't know the precise reason why 10x was selected, but my grandmother always said it was because it was more magnified than the most eagle-eyed viewer. I'm not judging where or not IF is important, simply that a lot of people make assumptions about what it means.

We'll help you no matter what, but since our goal is education, I'm educating. Make sure what they think IF means is really what it means. Dropping to VVS would greatly expand your options and lower cost (thus allow you to raise color or size or both). Your call.
 
Thanks Rocky- that is super interesting! I definitely see the value in doing that (my personal priority is carat/diameter, all other things being equal). Armed with this new information, I'll see if I can convince him. :D If not, do you think the cuts of any of the four I posted above would look good IRL? I definitely want a very nice stone that looks beautiful, but it doesn't need to be perfect. (Ironic, given that my partner wants IF, ha).
 
@Klaus If you're really going to raise your budget (which I don't think is a good idea bc it's a slippery slope), I'd actually recommend going with WF for a precision cut stone already vetted for light performance:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3963067.htm

This probably missed out on the ACA bc of the fluorescence but that makes it slightly less expensive: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3963051.htm

And this is a fully vetted GIA stone that's a great choice, as well, with better color (but most expensive of these 3)!! https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950134.htm
 
I would never, ever under any circumstances let the clarity of IF be the primary requirement of my diamond. It would eliminate MANY potentially better stones. VS is your best value for a clean stone. I like good clarity and buy VS1 when I can, but I'd not overpay for VVS-IF clarity unless it was the only stone available with the other specs I needed. None of those last JA stones you posted would be ones I would consider. I think when you look at the Whiteflash stones, you can see a stark difference in cut quality.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
I would never, ever under any circumstances let the clarity of IF be the primary requirement of my diamond. It would eliminate MANY potentially better stones. VS is your best value for a clean stone. I like good clarity and buy VS1 when I can, but I'd not overpay for VVS-IF clarity unless it was the only stone available with the other specs I needed. None of those last JA stones you posted would be ones I would consider. I think when you look at the Whiteflash stones, you can see a stark difference in cut quality.
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Exactly. There is no visual difference between VS1 and IF. VS1 is, by definition, eye clean under all circumstances, so anything beyond VS1 is superfluous clarity. As @rockysalamander said, IF doesn't mean inclusion-free, it just means they can't be seen at 10X. So you're basically paying for a stone with inclusions that can't be seen (a VS1) or a stone with ever-so-slightly smaller inclusions that also can't be seen (VVS or IF).

If I found a VVS or IF stone that I really liked and the price wasn't more than at the VS level, then sure, I would buy it. But limiting yourself to only IF stones is silly IMO unless there's some cultural reason for it (some asian cultures insist on D/IF for some reason).

And to answer your question, no, none of the 5 other IF stones you posted are well cut. The original IF found for you by @ac117 was a nice stone, but I'm almost sorry she found it now because it got your partner obsessed with something that doesn't even matter, and that you didn't care about before. :mrgreen: If you really want to go larger than that 1.15 IF, then dropping to VS clarity will greatly expand your options and allow you to get a stone that is well cut (which is something that you WILL actually notice).
 
TreeScientist said:
Exactly. There is no visual difference between VS1 and IF. VS1 is, by definition, eye clean under all circumstances, so anything beyond VS1 is superfluous clarity. As @rockysalamander said, IF doesn't mean inclusion-free, it just means they can't be seen at 10X. So you're basically paying for a stone with inclusions that can't be seen (a VS1) or a stone with ever-so-slightly smaller inclusions that also can't be seen (VVS or IF).

If I found a VVS or IF stone that I really liked and the price wasn't more than at the VS level, then sure, I would buy it. But limiting yourself to only IF stones is silly IMO unless there's some cultural reason for it (some asian cultures insist on D/IF for some reason).

And to answer your question, no, none of the 5 other IF stones you posted are well cut. The original IF found for you by @ac117 was a nice stone, but I'm almost sorry she found it now because it got your partner obsessed with something that doesn't even matter, and that you didn't care about before. :mrgreen: If you really want to go larger than that 1.15 IF, then dropping to VS clarity will greatly expand your options and allow you to get a stone that is well cut (which is something that you WILL actually notice).
Click to expand...

Sorry!!! I did "spoil" OP with that stone!! :oops2: But it was a great example of a well cut stone and not paying for the premium for IF clarity (totally agreed that it's overkill) which I did specify when I posted it! :halo:
 
ac117 said:
Sorry!!! I did "spoil" OP with that stone!! :oops2: But it was a great example of a well cut stone and not paying for the premium for IF clarity (totally agreed that it's overkill) which I did specify when I posted it! :halo:
Click to expand...

Look what you did! Up and ruined the logical side of @Klaus' partner's brain. :lol-2:
 
TreeScientist said:
After looking at the stones you posted, it looks like you upped your budget a bit. If under 8K is still in your budget, then I would definitely consider this one:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4446061

Beautiful video, completely eye clean, and the color looks to be a high I (almost looks like an H to me). Oh, and it's a great size at 7.08X7.04 too :)
Click to expand...

Beautiful choice! Cut is great, looks completely eye clean, color looks high too and the size is larger than you originally wanted!
 
Haha, I almost wish he hadn't seen the ac either at this point! That last one is PHENOMENAL. Thanks for the save you guys! On a side note, why the hell isn't GIA pickier about its Excellent grade? It seems like the majority of their Excellents are not cut well.
 
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