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Help!!Chipped stone, only 27 days to replace.

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
I chipped my 2.03 ering stone. I Hope someone writes back soon!!!

I desperately need the favored ranges for table, depth, crown, pavillion, lgf, upper one, don't know what its' called. I cannot use the search engine here to find the old posts with the proportions ranged, :angryfire: Please, please someone post good proportions.

I had a warranty to replace my stone, but they brought in ones that I didn't like and had 3.3+ HCA. They asked me exactly what I want so they can search. I have to buy from them because it is a replacement + upgrade. I don't have much time because I bought a stone that looked great on paper GIA XXX, It is beautiful and clear, but it lacks fire and there is something missing, and I can't put my finger on it.34.5c X 41.2p angle 58 table, 60.8 depth?(GIA report 2135199308) 2.21ct RB I am soooo bummed that my dear wedding stone got ruined. I could live with this one, but I could do better if given the chance.

I know I want a 54-56 table. Not sure how deep to go. I usually like 60-60.8, but that's a little narrow of a search. I also am unsure of lgf, My other stones were 80% and 50% top.

Please help. I have to send off the email with my requests ASAP. I only have 27 days to return this stone. thanks!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
oh I am so sorry to hear that your stone chipped!

here is the 'cheat sheet' (found this from another post)...in general I think this is a bit restrictive but may be a good place to start. you could also look for HCA under ~2.5? hopefully your jeweler can call in a few candidates for you to look at and then you can pick one that appeals most to you.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Ask for AGS0 graded stones. Or, ask your vendor to send you the GIA report numbers of ALL the possibles that meet your needs in the GIA Ex cut grade (for other specs) and run them through the HCA to find ones scoring under 2, then call those in.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
Thanks Dreamer. I actually asked them to do that, funny....they think I am getting too stuck on numbers and won't seem to do it. I asked them to do that originally, so that I didn't have to justify turning down stones. They didn't do it. They hate the HCA. The manager brought in a GEMEX report on a stone, and did the HCA with me and showed me the HCA 5.6 had excellent GEMEX scores, and said "see your system you use is flawed." It was no use debating with her. I know what, I know, she would lose many sales if everyone used the HCA in her store. I used the HCA on my chipped stone and got a beauty. Thanks again.

What do you prefer in LGF's 80% and what about upper 50%
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
slg47|1304197618|2908714 said:
oh I am so sorry to hear that your stone chipped!

here is the 'cheat sheet' (found this from another post)...in general I think this is a bit restrictive but may be a good place to start. you could also look for HCA under ~2.5? hopefully your jeweler can call in a few candidates for you to look at and then you can pick one that appeals most to you.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

slg47, Thanks you soooo much, I am goin to put this in my email now.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Thanks Dreamer. I actually asked them to do that, funny....they think I am getting too stuck on numbers and won't seem to do it. I asked them to do that originally, so that I didn't have to justify turning down stones. They didn't do it. They hate the HCA. The manager brought in a GEMEX report on a stone, and did the HCA with me and showed me the HCA 5.6 had excellent GEMEX scores, and said "see your system you use is flawed." It was no use debating with her. I know what, I know, she would lose many sales if everyone used the HCA in her store. I used the HCA on my chipped stone and got a beauty. Thanks again.

What do you prefer in LGF's 80% and what about upper 50%
Do you have to work with this vendor? Seems silly for her to take the time to bring in stones you will reject :rolleyes: She should do what you want, even if you wanted to do a voodoo ritual to choose stones that is your perogative. Stick to your guns and tell her you don't care if she thinks you are wrong, this is how you would like to choose your stone.

If you like the 80% lgf then try to find another one like that this time. It makes a slightly more splintery and brigthter look compared to shorted lgf which will give more contrast and chunkier look. So if you like the longer lgf, stick with it!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,629
I'd just take off the 62.4 depth part. Going deeper can result in a smaller diameter sometimes.

There are relatively few stones graded by AGS just out there with normal suppliers (whereas vendors here who have factories cutting their signature stones are having those stones sent to AGS), so that is probably why they are offering GIA stones. And that's fine as long as you get one with ideal specs! Good luck!

(I wouldn't limit yourself to only 80 lgf or you are going to have such restrictions that you may not find a replacement! At least make a range of say 75-80, because those are not fat arrows.)
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
Dreamer_D|1304199737|2908724 said:
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Thanks Dreamer.

Do you have to work with this vendor? Seems silly for her to take the time to bring in stones you will reject :rolleyes: She should do what you want, even if you wanted to do a voodoo ritual to choose stones that is your perogative. Stick to your guns and tell her you don't care if she thinks you are wrong, this is how you would like to choose your stone.

If you like the 80% lgf then try to find another one like that this time. It makes a slightly more splintery and brigthter look compared to shorted lgf which will give more contrast and chunkier look. So if you like the longer lgf, stick with it!
I have to work with them. It's where I bought the original stone. I like contrast too, so 75% is good too? thanks for keeping up with me.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
hearts-arrows_girl|1304207587|2908770 said:
Dreamer_D|1304199737|2908724 said:
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Thanks Dreamer.

Do you have to work with this vendor? Seems silly for her to take the time to bring in stones you will reject :rolleyes: She should do what you want, even if you wanted to do a voodoo ritual to choose stones that is your perogative. Stick to your guns and tell her you don't care if she thinks you are wrong, this is how you would like to choose your stone.

If you like the 80% lgf then try to find another one like that this time. It makes a slightly more splintery and brigthter look compared to shorted lgf which will give more contrast and chunkier look. So if you like the longer lgf, stick with it!
I have to work with them. It's where I bought the original stone. I like contrast too, so 75% is good too? thanks for keeping up with me.
Was the insurance offered through the vendor then? It is not your own private insurance?

As a note to any other readers, this is why I like having my own insurance because then I can choose the vendor.

Anyways, DS is right, you don't have to stick to 80lgf. *shrug* you just want to get something you think it beautiful.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,629
Yes, she has the ability to see the stones in person, so it is easier to know whether she likes the stone or not!

I just said that about lgf's because I recall that my new ACA's have 76 and 77, so I know that is not too thin or too fat arrows.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
diamondseeker2006|1304210000|2908791 said:
Yes, she has the ability to see the stones in person, so it is easier to know whether she likes the stone or not!

I just said that about lgf's because I recall that my new ACA's have 76 and 77, so I know that is not too thin or too fat arrows.
AGS provides exactish estimates of lgf, whereas GIA rounds anyways, I think to the nearest 5%, so really you only get 75 or 80, which can mean anywhere in a range around those numbers. So I think if she looks for "80" it is not so limiting, since it includes all the stones from like 77 to 82...

But in the end, I think H&A Girl, since you can see the stones, don't worry *too* much about the numbers within reason, eh? GIA Ex for cut, with a score on the HCA under 2 or close to it will allow you peace of mind to use you eyes knowing you are picking from a well cut selection.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
55,629
I agree!

I think the deal breaker often is that pavilion angle being over 41.0. But a GIA XXX with HCA under 2 is a pretty safe bet!
 

Gibson486

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
91
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Thanks Dreamer. I actually asked them to do that, funny....they think I am getting too stuck on numbers and won't seem to do it. I asked them to do that originally, so that I didn't have to justify turning down stones. They didn't do it. They hate the HCA. The manager brought in a GEMEX report on a stone, and did the HCA with me and showed me the HCA 5.6 had excellent GEMEX scores, and said "see your system you use is flawed." It was no use debating with her. I know what, I know, she would lose many sales if everyone used the HCA in her store. I used the HCA on my chipped stone and got a beauty. Thanks again.

What do you prefer in LGF's 80% and what about upper 50%
The HCA system is flawed. Their are plenty of stones out there that do not compute well with HCA, but are still very worthy contenders.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,747
What we have here is a failure to communicate. Yes, the HCA is flawed. So is Gemex. They both have their uses but, personally, I think Gemex is even worse. You and the jeweler simply aren't talking about the same thing(s). Their offer of a GIA xxx as a replacement is a good place to start and I think they really are trying ot make you whole. That's a good sign. Actually, it's entirely possible that they're making a more than fair offer. It will depend on what you lost, and what you have in terms of paperwork to demonstrate what you had. Read the description on the appraisal. Does it mention HCA (or Gemex either for that matter)? This is what they're obligated to replace and tiny details matter. I can't begin to predict who is 'right' here but all of this is moot if you and the jeweler can't get on the same page.

You describe this as a 'warranty'. Is it the jeweler themselves who is acting as the insurer or is there a 3rd party insurance company?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
In terms of replacing with like kind and quality, Neil is totally correct that all they will be obliged to replace is a stone that matches the documentation that you have regardign what you lost, which would include an appraisal and perhaps the cert that came with your original stone, if you included that in your documentation provided for insurance purposes. If the HCA was not listed on the appraisal, then they are not obliged to replace according to the HCA score.

BUT you could argue that if you had a table of X on your first diamond, or a depth of Y, or a certain crown and pavilion angle, then replacing with like kind and quality means that it should also have those parameters (or close enough that you concede it is like kind and quality). It would depend on the policy wording, and what the policy states about what "like kind and quality means, and it would also depend on the person assessing the claim and their willingness to work with you/listen to you. In the case of the store warranty, then the person assessing the claim is not a third party insurance claims agent, but is instead the vendor offering the replacement stone. This intrdoces a conflict of interest to a degree because the person paying for the replacement is the same person selecting the replacement for you, and they would be motivated to perhaps offer something that saves them money, and perhaps would be motivated not to meat any desires you have that are not strictly written in the policy. So insurance from the vendor is, in my opinion, the worst type for the consumer.

Slightly better, though still flawed, is insurance where the insurance agency allows you to select a replacement, but it must be from a vendor of their choice. Again, there is not independence between the insurance agency and the vendor, and the selection for the consumer might be limited in their selection.

This is why insurance where they let *you* select the diamond (provided it is the same general specs and less than or equal to the appraised value) is so appealing to PSers who care about this stuff so much.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Was the insurance offered through the vendor then? It is not your own private insurance?

As a note to any other readers, this is why I like having my own insurance because then I can choose the vendor.

Anyways, DS is right, you don't have to stick to 80lgf. *shrug* you just want to get something you think it beautiful.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]

It was a warranty through the company, in case the stone ever cracked or chipped. I DO have private insurance, but since most insurance don't want to cover you if you have a previous claim, I am saving my private insures, 1st claim, for loss or theft. thanks for the info.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,184
hearts-arrows_girl|1304270941|2909212 said:
hearts-arrows_girl|1304198918|2908719 said:
Was the insurance offered through the vendor then? It is not your own private insurance?

As a note to any other readers, this is why I like having my own insurance because then I can choose the vendor.

Anyways, DS is right, you don't have to stick to 80lgf. *shrug* you just want to get something you think it beautiful.
[/quote][/quote]

It was a warranty through the company, in case the stone ever cracked or chipped. I DO have private insurance, but since most insurance don't want to cover you if you have a previous claim, I am saving my private insures, 1st claim, for loss or theft. thanks for the info.[/quote]

That's not true about insurance and there have been stories of claims here for more than one ring. Your private insurance company should cover the loss to this stone. If you get another stone, you get it insured as well. There is really no such thing as first claim.

Is this a chain store that you got the first ring from? Do you have the cert on file with your private insurance company? If so, I'd seriously think about contacting them with a claim.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
denverappraiser|1304258835|2909085 said:
What we have here is a failure to communicate. Yes, the HCA is flawed. So is Gemex. They both have their uses but, personally, I think Gemex is even worse. You and the jeweler simply aren't talking about the same thing(s). Their offer of a GIA xxx as a replacement is a good place to start and I think they really are trying ot make you whole. That's a good sign. Actually, it's entirely possible that they're making a more than fair offer. It will depend on what you lost, and what you have in terms of paperwork to demonstrate what you had. Read the description on the appraisal. Does it mention HCA (or Gemex either for that matter)? This is what they're obligated to replace and tiny details matter. I can't begin to predict who is 'right' here but all of this is moot if you and the jeweler can't get on the same page.

You describe this as a 'warranty'. Is it the jeweler themselves who is acting as the insurer or is there a 3rd party insurance company?
Thanks for your reply. It is the company themselves offering replacement. I had to put in $4,000 dollars extra to sort of upgrade, so they did me no favors. The just gave me credit for the original sale price and tax. and I had to put in the rest for whatever I chose. They were so off the mark as to what I thought would be a fair exact trade, so I knew I'd do better choosing my own replacement and putting some money in. My old stone was a lucky find, not easily replaced. I agree GIA XXX would have been a great bet, but the things that were wrong, really killed it overall performance. Someone said in a past post that 41.2 will look good in tweezers, but set or if any dust gets on it, it's won't do as well. It was true. It looked great when I constantly cleaned it, but I think having to clean my ring 5 times in one day, means somethings wrong.
My appraisal did not have Gemex or HCA. They said I was getting too hung up on the numbers and pretty much said we'll do our best. They were really frustrated with my use of numbers and HCA.
I WILL have to stay strong and forge on. They are very polite, but people like me, are a thorn in their side.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
Dreamer_D|1304268407|2909186 said:
In terms of replacing with like kind and quality, Neil is totally correct that all they will be obliged to replace is a stone that matches the documentation that you have regardign what you lost, which would include an appraisal and perhaps the cert that came with your original stone, if you included that in your documentation provided for insurance purposes. If the HCA was not listed on the appraisal, then they are not obliged to replace according to the HCA score.

BUT you could argue that if you had a table of X on your first diamond, or a depth of Y, or a certain crown and pavilion angle, then replacing with like kind and quality means that it should also have those parameters (or close enough that you concede it is like kind and quality). It would depend on the policy wording, and what the policy states about what "like kind and quality means, and it would also depend on the person assessing the claim and their willingness to work with you/listen to you. In the case of the store warranty, then the person assessing the claim is not a third party insurance claims agent, but is instead the vendor offering the replacement stone. This introduces a conflict of interest to a degree because the person paying for the replacement is the same person selecting the replacement for you, and they would be motivated to perhaps offer something that saves them money, and perhaps would be motivated not to meat any desires you have that are not strictly written in the policy. So insurance from the vendor is, in my opinion, the worst type for the consumer. Good point.

Slightly better, though still flawed, is insurance where the insurance agency allows you to select a replacement, but it must be from a vendor of their choice. Again, there is not independence between the insurance agency and the vendor, and the selection for the consumer might be limited in their selection.

This is why insurance where they let *you* select the diamond (provided it is the same general specs and less than or equal to the appraised value) is so appealing to PSers who care about this stuff so much.
Great points. I have alot to mull over. It this keeps getting crazy with the store, It a chain store, and if I can't get what I need, then I will call my insurance. I was afraid insurance wouldn't want to insure me on another stone, if I put in a claim, or that my premiums would go up. I paid a higher price for my stone because it was a chain store with a lifetime guarantee, so I am going to give them another shot to take care of me and I'll let you know what happens. Thanks for taking the time to post advice for me. I actually am off to get ready for work, I will post again Monday.

Miss Got Rocks, thanks for the insurance insight.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
8,747
Customers can be annoying, but not having customers is so much worse. That's just part of being a retailer. Some sales are easier than others. Be nice about it, but stick to your guns about what you want. :sun:

In their defense, they really do seem to be trying to make it right and most of the staff at the chain stores aren't usually skilled gemolgists. Did you go through this process with the angles, HCA and Gemex when you bought the first one? If so, try and find the same employees who helped you last time. If not, try and give them specific parameters, in writing, for what you want. They can then show that to their supplier, who probably IS well skilled, and they can try to fill your order without anyone getting their feathers ruffled.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,360
Call you private insurance and ask about the claims issue. My husband is in insurance, which is why I know a little about this stuff (despite my desire not to know about it 8) ) and my intuition is that there is no "first claim/second claim" issue with jewelry insurance. That holds in situations where having one claim increases the odds of a second claim -- like with car insurance where the driver is a major contributor to the accident, and if deemed at fault, is a greater risk for a second claim when he/she has a history of accident.

But, when you get insurance for your jewelry they do NOT ask if you have ever filed a claim before --at least this was not asked of me! -- it means that is NOT information that factors into their assessment of the risk of taking you on as a client. Which means that they don't care because a prior claim does not predict an increased risk of future claims. So I bet good money that there is no such issue with private jewelry insurance. But call and ask.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
denverappraiser|1304273568|2909252 said:
Customers can be annoying, but not having customers is so much worse. That's just part of being a retailer. Some sales are easier than others. Be nice about it, but stick to your guns about what you want. :sun:

In their defense, they really do seem to be trying to make it right and most of the staff at the chain stores aren't usually skilled gemologists. Did you go through this process with the angles, HCA and Gemex when you bought the first one? If so, try and find the same employees who helped you last time. If not, try and give them specific parameters, in writing, for what you want. They can then show that to their supplier, who probably IS well skilled, and they can try to fill your order without anyone getting their feathers ruffled. PERFECT! I wish they had done this in the first place.


Good words to hear. thank you. I used the HCA on my own, with my other stone. The manager is helping me herself now. She "gets it" more, now it seems. She asked me for a SPECIFIC range of angles, I emailed them to her. She called to say she is off Mon, and Tues, but that she has not dropped the ball. I also gave her a budget to work with, so it is now more like an upgrade then, just a swap out.
 

hearts-arrows_girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,094
Dreamer_D|1304283386|2909385 said:
Call you private insurance and ask about the claims issue. My husband is in insurance, which is why I know a little about this stuff (despite my desire not to know about it 8) ) and my intuition is that there is no "first claim/second claim" issue with jewelry insurance. That holds in situations where having one claim increases the odds of a second claim -- like with car insurance where the driver is a major contributor to the accident, and if deemed at fault, is a greater risk for a second claim when he/she has a history of accident.

But, when you get insurance for your jewelry they do NOT ask if you have ever filed a claim before --at least this was not asked of me! -- it means that is NOT information that factors into their assessment of the risk of taking you on as a client. Which means that they don't care because a prior claim does not predict an increased risk of future claims. So I bet good money that there is no such issue with private jewelry insurance. But call and ask.
Jewelers Mutual is what I have. They did ask if I had a prior claim when I signed up. I think they may have based my premium on
1) No prior claim
2) Ring kept in safe
Even if I use my private Insurance, when I signed up, I didn't choose a cash out policy, and the replacement will be done at the same chain store. (they work with them)

Thing are going better. I'll let everyone know what they come up with this time, since I emailed them an exact range of angles.
Thanks again for helping. I really needed some feedback letting me know that I am not being unreasonable. I want to be strong, but fair.
 
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