Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Help - Buying advice. Am I being ripped off?

M

Mevans

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
7
Hi guys, first post!

So I recently ordered a 0.97 ct diamond. D, VS2, triple excellent (GIA) in London.

When I went to pick it up, he couldn’t get me the exact diamond...

He got me a 0.99 ct diamond. D, VS2, very good cut, excellent polish, very good symmetry.

What is the difference between very good and excellent cut. Will this make a difference?

He claims that the 0.99 diamond is more expensive. Would this be true?

Don’t want to be getting ripped off!

Thanks in advance!
 
Bait and switch, it sounds like. The size would certainly be secondary to the cut and personally I would be concerned too, especially if he’s charging you the same price. But I’ll let the experts chime in on the specifics.
 
Can you post the gia certificate number or the following: table%, depth%, crown angle, pavillion angle, lower girdle facet length, inclusions listed, any notes, and fluorescence.
 
I think he pulled a fast one on you. Can you return and get a refund?
 
rockysalamander said:
Can you post the gia certificate number or the following: table%, depth%, crown angle, pavillion angle, lower girdle facet length, inclusions listed, any notes, and fluorescence.
Click to expand...

Depth 64.10%
Table Percent 57.00%
Crown Angle 38.50
Crown Height 17.00
Pavilion Angle 40.00
Pavilion Depth 42.00
Florescence: Faint
 
icy_jade said:
I think he pulled a fast one on you. Can you return and get a refund?
Click to expand...

Yes, have only paid a deposit of £200, so should be fine.

In the meantime, he's going to try and source a diamond closer to the original ordered...

Just want to make an informed decision, is a big decision to be making!
 
What matters with a diamond are the angles and how well they work to return light. Even GIA XXX includes some good and some not so good combinations. So, we are here to help you weed through your choices! IMHO most people can't tell a D, E or F color from each other (though some can). Even an SI2 can be more eye-clean than some VS2.

The angles are what landed this diamond in VG and not excellent. But, they are complementary to each other yielding a HCA (Holloway Cut Advisor) score of 1.5. That's good. But, at these angles, I do worry about light return and performance. I think you will find that this diamond is not a great performer. You have a couple of options: (1) return this diamond and we can help you choose better (from this vendor or another, not just the 4Cs, but with better angles), (2) buy a ASET and H&A viewer to see if this stone has acceptable light return (with these angles, I'm not hopeful), or (3) bring this diamond to a super-ideal vendor (see below for one I'm aware of) to see CBI stones of similar size, color, and clarity (though ask to see down to SI1 and SI2). Compare this diamond to those and see what you can see with your own eyes. Ask them to take this stone and mix them with two of there stones. Then, present them to you without telling you which is which. Do this a few times.

This will help you make an informed choice about light return, performance, and the light. They likely have a H&A viewer and ASET viewer in their office, but ask.

Diamond House
2 Royal Exchange
EC3V 3DG, London
UK
+44 777 038 1882
[email protected]
https://www.diamondhousejewellery.com
 
Last edited:
Cut and run from this diamond! The angles and numbers are terrible! Massive difference going down to a “Very Good” cut.

Do you need a D colour? Many would say this is over the top. UK jewellers always emphasis the colour and clarity when it’s the CUT that matters most!

Tell us your budget and we’ll find you something better.

OR consider visiting Best Diamonds in London who stock Crafted by Infinity diamonds and see what a properly cut diamond looks like!

Edit- I was posting at the same time as Rocky above- she has given you the address Best Diamonds!
 
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone. Think of this as a filter. Filter 1 is GIA 3x or AGS0. Filter 2 is stay within the ranges below.. Filter 3 is the HCA tool to see if the angles are complementary. Anything that passes 1 & 2 with an HCA of 2.0 or less is worth obtaining an Idealscope or ASET image to check light return, and Heart and arrows image to see symmetry. If you like 60/60 stones, then check the HCA, but it is not as suited to evaluate then and they really must get an ASET or IS.

table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 
Thanks both.

I got the diamond from Hatton Garden in London.

I was confident that the first price was good value. I went to another dealer and they couldn't match the price (maybe should have set alarm bells ringing there!). The dealer was also recommended by a close friend. But the next diamond, maybe less so!

It's for an engagement ring, so they were setting it in a platinum band etc.

Price paid was £6,600 in cash.

I'm aware for my budget, there's always going to be something I have to give up.

Just not sure if this diamond is better/worse value than the original diamond I was offered.

Without the specs of the original, I guess I'll never know!
 
Mevans said:
Depth 64.10%
Table Percent 57.00%
Crown Angle 38.50
Crown Height 17.00
Pavilion Angle 40.00
Pavilion Depth 42.00
Florescence: Faint
Click to expand...

I'mm no expert, but the specs for this diamond are horrific. Wow. Just no. This vendor's bait and switch, which is apparently what brought you here, may have been the best thing that happened to you in your diamond search. Please listen to the advice you will get from the knowledgeable people here. They will not steer you wrong.
 
Mevans said:
Thanks both.

I got the diamond from Hatton Garden in London.

I was confident that the first price was good value. I went to another dealer and they couldn't match the price (maybe should have set alarm bells ringing there!). The dealer was also recommended by a close friend. But the next diamond, maybe less so!

It's for an engagement ring, so they were setting it in a platinum band etc.

Price paid was £6,600 in cash.

I'm aware for my budget, there's always going to be something I have to give up.

Just not sure if this diamond is better/worse value than the original diamond I was offered.

Without the specs of the original, I guess I'll never know!
Click to expand...

A 0.02 carat diff hardly affects the price, but the cut does as there is a premium for triple ex vs normal diamonds. So IMO the dealer was trying to con you into getting a lousy diamond. Sure he may have been recommended but maybe your friend was ripped off too and wasn’t aware.

How do you lose a diamond anyway? I don’t buy the bullshit.
 
Mevans said:
Yes, have only paid a deposit of £200, so should be fine.

In the meantime, he's going to try and source a diamond closer to the original ordered...

Just want to make an informed decision, is a big decision to be making!
Click to expand...

Mevans said:
Thanks both.

I got the diamond from Hatton Garden in London.

I was confident that the first price was good value. I went to another dealer and they couldn't match the price (maybe should have set alarm bells ringing there!). The dealer was also recommended by a close friend. But the next diamond, maybe less so!

It's for an engagement ring, so they were setting it in a platinum band etc.

Price paid was £6,600 in cash.

I'm aware for my budget, there's always going to be something I have to give up.

Just not sure if this diamond is better/worse value than the original diamond I was offered.

Without the specs of the original, I guess I'll never know!
Click to expand...

You appear to have conflicting information here.

Have you bought the diamond outright already? Or have you only placed a holding deposit on it?

If the latter, do you have a receipt?

If so, what does the receipt say?
"0.97ct GIA XXX Diamond, reference number xxxxxxx"?
Or just "D VS2 diamond"?

I would argue that he is not providing the stone you have placed a deposit on, therefore you would like your deposit back please.

Did you see the stone before you ordered or did you order off a list of stones available?

Did you pay by cash or (credit) card?

Who is the jeweller?
 
OoohShiny said:
You appear to have conflicting information here.

Have you bought the diamond outright already? Or have you only placed a holding deposit on it?

If the latter, do you have a receipt?

If so, what does the receipt say?
"0.97ct GIA XXX Diamond, reference number xxxxxxx"?
Or just "D VS2 diamond"?

I would argue that he is not providing the stone you have placed a deposit on, therefore you would like your deposit back please.

Did you see the stone before you ordered or did you order off a list of stones available?

Did you pay by cash or (credit) card?

Who is the jeweller?
Click to expand...

Hi OoohShiny,

Thanks for your help.

Sorry for not being clearer. I've only placed a holding deposit and I have a receipt.

It says D VS2 0.97ct GIA Round. No reference

Ordered off a list of stones available.

Paid credit card.

I've said that I'll think about the diamond, but if I don't want that one - he will try to source one similar to the existing.

Thanks for your help!
 
farrahlyn said:
awful specs on the new diamond, please look elsewhere.

Blue Nile has some nice choices within budget:
setting: https://www.bluenile.com/uk/build-y...ing_67522?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample

.90ct D VS2 https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD10605906

.90ct E VS2 https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD10144731
Click to expand...

Amazing, thank you.

What would price increase be to increase from 0.9 - 0.97 for example?

Sounds vain, but the have agreed with her sister that the bigger the better (but still D/VS2 XXX)

Thanks!
 
Hi Mevans,

PLEASE listen to the excellent advice you have been given here. You are being done for a fast one. Don't let them do that. Gosh it makes my blood boil. They either provide you with the stone you were buying or they give you all your money back for not giving you what they said they were going to. Even if they do source the original stone come back here with the certificate information.

The most important aspect of a stone is the cut, a very good D will look pants next to an excellent cut G or H. Then what have you paid for? Does it need to be a D?

I also bought my stone from Hatton Garden and WISH I had the knowledge that I now have. I luckily got a pretty amazing stone but I could have done better; I had pretty decent knowledge but not enough and I will pay for it. Please don't let them con you. We are not lucky in England as unless you buy a scope from America you will struggle to get any light performance information. Either go to that address mentioned above or to be honest if I were doing it again I would go online to America to some place like Whiteflash and pay customs - at least then you know exactly what you're getting and you'll be putting your money where it counts. Which in England is like pulling teeth as you are already discovering!

Best of luck,
Lydia
 
Agree, get your deposit back and walk away from these people.

There are a lot of factors that go into the price of a diamond, and it's at least conceivable that they are offering you a more expensive stone, but this is just about the worst diamond they could have found for you. You'd have to go to some effort to find a stone that bad in 2018 outside of an antique store, and even then it would likely be set in a gorgeous old setting.
 
Thank you everyone for all of your help.

Am going to reject this diamond!

If he can offer me a similar diamond, to what I first asked for I'll go for that. But will use all of our advice to see if it's worth it!

Thanks again, very difficult to know what to do with 0 knowledge on the subject.
 
Mevans said:
Amazing, thank you.

What would price increase be to increase from 0.9 - 0.97 for example?

Sounds vain, but the have agreed with her sister that the bigger the better (but still D/VS2 XXX)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

A D colored stone compared to an E or even a F is virtually indistinguishable to the untrained eye. Unless it's for cultural reasons, I'd ask her to look in store to see if she can tell the difference. (just be sure to compare GIA XXX graded stones) You'll get a lot more for your money if you drop in color.

there's just not a lot to compare to with D colored stones. but this .96 is a considerable jump in price from the .90 D VS2 stone:
https://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-details/LD10252983

this is comparing them side by side on a 2.2mm band, size 6 finger, there is just a 2% difference in surface area.

.9vs.96.JPG
 
£6600
less 20% VAT
£5500
times 1.30 (USD to GBP)
= $7150

So using USD7000 as a guide buying price (as you'll need to pay 20% VAT on import, and potentially another 2.5% if the stone is set into a ring/jewellery) you could have...


CBI 0.93 H VS1 (VS1 = should be eye-clean by anyone's definition!)
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8250

CBI 0.90 H SI1 (which looks completely eye-clean in the images - ask @Wink for a video and confirmation it is eye-clean!)
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9954

WF ACA 1.01 H VS1 (VS1 = should be eye-clean by anyone's definition!)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995835.htm

WF ACA 0.92 F VS2 (can't see the clouds on the grading report in the images - should be eye-clean!)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3964562.htm

BGD Blue 1.08 H SI1 (crystals are hard to see so should be eye-clean apart from at very close viewing, plus Medium Blue Fluorescence will lift the H colour in UV-light-rich environments)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.081-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104092458046


But if you definitely want a D and definitely want eye-clean, this may well hit that target!

BGD Black 0.84 D VVS1
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...0.840-d-vvs1-round-diamond-bkags-104100412083


Anything over half a carat is 'big' to most of the UK, so don't worry too much about the size differences between a circa 1ct poorly cut GIA XXX and a slightly smaller AGS000 - the edge-to-edge brightness of a really good stone makes it look bigger and the performance is what really blows people away :)
 
Last edited:
Please don't give this jeweller another chance. Walk away!
 
I agree - RUN don't walk away from this guy. :errrr: Plenty of other great options in your budget out there. I'm confident most people would prefer an excellent cut at a slightly (unnoticeable) warmer tone than a poorly cut D. The size difference isn't much either. :read:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top