Help!--Bruted Girdle Question

[littledebbie]

I need to know whether all stones that were cut about 35-40 years ago would have a bruted girdle. I just picked up my 1 carat round that my mother bought 35-40 years ago and am positive the diamond was switched when it was re-set. I asked the sales-lady to show me the diamond under a microscope to plot out some flaws in it before releasing it to her. She said she did not have a microscope but a 10x loupe (sp?) So I found a needle large needle and we both noted it. When I picked the ring up yesterday she said she didn''t have the loupe with her but that she did the appraisal and it''s my diamond. I believed her and under the store lighting it looked fine and I did not examine in totally closely. Well after I got home last night I can see that there are visible inclusions that I can see from the side that my diamond did not have. I used to clean it with a toothbrush and baking soda and so I know that it did not have them. Also my diamond had a bruted girdle with a frosted appearance around the border. This diamond does not have this. I need to know if I can use this an proof that the diamond was switched. I paid for the setting with my American Express and have called and put in a dispute on the charge. Their store is closed today, but I will call tomorrow when they open. I am so mad right now my hands are shaking and I can barely type! I knew I should have had an appraisal done before I gave them the stone but I thought that plotting out the flaws would be good enough. What else should I do? What can be done legally if they put up a fight and claim that that is my diamond. Sorry this is so disjointed, but I am just so upset. Please give me any advice you can.

 

[MrYoung]

Little D,

I would not get upset until you are sure that your stone has been switched. Diamonds can look very different after being professionally cleaned.

Do you or your mother have any background documents- a sales receipt or previous appraisal? Do you know where it was originally purchased?

 

[He Scores]

RE: Also my diamond had a bruted girdle with a frosted appearance around the border. This diamond does not have this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you have documentation to prove this I think you have a position. Like was said, diamonds could look different when they are remounted in a different direction. Flaws that may have been obscured by prongs before may have been rotated in the resetting and become more visible.

The girdle being a natural one and now is a polished one is a strong identifying factor.

Any documentation on the diamond that you had before should have strong identifying characteristics that can be re-verified, such as measurements, natural notations, girdle type, flaw plotting, etc.

Good luck. Switching is usually a product of the layman''s immagination. It''s very difficult to get away with but accidents do happen.

Let us know how you make out.
Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[littledebbie]

Thanks for the replies. I know this is not the same diamond. I have cleaned it so many times and there were no such noticeable side inclusions as there are now. They can be seen from all 4 sides.

I believe my mom bought the diamond at Zales, but I am pretty sure she does not still have the receipt or papers on it. It has no professional documentation apart from the 1 needle identified and the 6.5 by 6.45 measurement the lady took before the diamond was handed over. Any other advice? Should I take it to an independent appraiser now?

 

[He Scores]

Express your concerns with the store owner. The burden of proof would be on you. As I see it, the flaw you plotted is your only concrete evidence. Your word on the natural girdle may make the owner seek a solution.

Good luck.

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[littledebbie]

I have been dealing with the store manager and when I called today the saleslady said I needed to speak with the manager again. She is off today and tomorrow though. Should I be dealing with her or ask to speak to the store owner?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If you are seeing inclusions through the side it is possible the stone has been turned and you see what was before invisible?


I can not say for sure when girdles were first polished - it is a good question????????

 

[stebbo]

Can you still see the large needle?

 

[He Scores]

I was taught diamond cutting in the mid 70's and faceting girdles wasn't anything new then.

Straight edges like emerald cuts had "polished/faceted" girdles since their inception, and I think that the transfer of that ability probably went right over to rounds.

As a matter of fact I've seen old mine cuts that had portions of their girdles faceted to remove naturals.

Not all diamonds from the 60's had naturally bruted girdles..


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[littledebbie]

I don't have a 10x loupe, so I haven't had the chance to see if I can see the needle. I have been able to examine the stone in more lighting and with an otoscope (only on Pricescope would someone admit to doing this, right!) and now I am thinking maybe it is my stone. It does have a bruted girdle. Oops. But I swear I never saw the side inclusions before. I am going to post photos of the old setting and then the new setting and tell me if you think the new setting would show side inclusions better than the old. I also spoke to a local independent appraiser and she made a very good point that I hadn't thought of before. She said that while diamond swapping does happen, it is usually an accident or happens in the New York Diamond district because most local jewelers don't have an inventory of stones to work with to be able to swap stones out with a passable, lower quality, similar size diamond. I had not thought of this before. I am taking the ring to this local independent appraiser and she is going to look for the needle and see if the size matches the measurements the store took before they reset the diamond. Hopefully this will put my mind at ease. I am on the edge of my seat ready to feel like a major idiot for jumping to the conclusion that the stone was swapped.

 

[littledebbie]

Old setting photo

 

[littledebbie]

I can''t figure out how to get my files small enough. I''ll work on it. Sorry!

 

[gwendolyn]

Oi, that sounds rather nerve-wracking. I hope it all gets sorted as soon as possible--hopefully this will amount to nothing and everything will be fine again shortly.

 

[littledebbie]

Here''s a photo of the old setting:

 

[littledebbie]

Another photo of the old setting:

 

[littledebbie]

Here''s a photo of the new setting:

 

[littledebbie]

Another of the new. (I can''t seem to get good up-close photos. Sorry!):

 

[mrssalvo]

i''m no expert but just wanted to say that I agree diamond swapping on purpose would be very rare. jewelers just aren''t going to risk jail time and loosing their business''s to switch a 1 carat stone. i have no idea why you are/aren''t seeing things you did or didn''t before but I hope your trip to the appraiser will help put your mind at ease. your new setting looks very beautiful too!!!

 

[MrYoung]

You shouldnt be embarrased about worrying about your jewelry. It is made of "rock solid sentiment and love".

It sounds like your on the right path. I would be surprised, at this point, if the stone was different. For a jewelry store to actually make a significant profit off switching a diamond (worth the expense of public embarrassment and financial loss), they would have to switch it with a simulant or a stone of significantly lower quality. This, you would most certainly notice. A polished girdle, for example, is seen much more often on higher end stones and is considered more valuable (this is not to say that your diamond is of lower quality OR looses value because of a bruted girdle).

Please post if your stone is actually switched, as there are specific companies and organizations that can help you.

 

[chrono]

Just speculation:
Your old setting looks to be the standard 6 prong and most likely covered up a bit of the side view. Your new setting looks like a very open 4 prong that exposes a lot more of the sides, hence you are now seeing the inclusion that was previously hidden.

 

[littledebbie]

Okay, so I saw the appraiser this afternoon and I am pretty positive the diamond is mine. I feel like the hugest idiot! She showed me the diamond under the microscope and there were 3 needles I could see from the top. One of them looked like the one I saw with the loupe. Then she showed me the diamond from the back and I saw a large inclusion that I remembered seeing when I saw the diamond loose before it was mounted into my 6 prong ring. She also found that one of the baguettes is loose. She said the side diamonds are single cut diamonds and one of them looked dark because it was dirty from the back. She said she would date the setting to be from around the 1920s. I am having the baguette fixed and speed bumps added to the back to keep the ring from spinning and to make it a little snugger. I''ll post some photos in SMTR. Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[chrono]

I am very glad to hear that everything is resolved that your stone is the original one.

 

[strmrdr]

whew glad it worked out :}