Help between 2 diamonds - solitaire ring!

[Aimyr]

Hi everyone, long time lurker here but I finally heard back from my jeweler about my inquiry so I can post about something!
I'm about a month away from proposing now and have been doing a good 3 months of research on diamonds, settings and jewelers in my region (Sweden). I already found a jeweler I like that has some inhouse designs that seem to be super close to what I remember my girlfriend likes. However, they don't work with stones that are bought elsewhere but they got excellent trade-in policies and seemed really friendly and accomodating thus far, plus I wanted to see the stones in person before buying anyways so I figured I'd pay the premium and order a diamond through them instead of online. So last month I bought the solitaire ring that came with a diamond that was OK but slightly below the optimal range I was looking for and asked the store to find me 2 diamonds in the super ideal range instead to exchange it with.
(This one is the one that came with the ring)


They found 2, although the color and clarity ranges are a bit higher, unfortunately those were the only ones in the database of their supplier right now. I'm leaning towards ordering the one with a 57 table to the store and asking them to continue looking for another one with a lower color/clarity grade. I'm a bit worried about the 4% girdle which is the only measurement that's higher than the range I requested (2,5-3%). Is it silly to worry over that?

 

[rockysalamander]

The girdle thickness is not a worry. I'd take the 56% table of these two. I like smaller tables.

 

[Aimyr]

Thanks for your input rockysalamander, much appreciated!
Now I received the pictures as well. From a glance 56 seems to be the winner? Could 57 look like that because of a slight shift in angle or can I trust these pictures to be taken well? Anything that´s off or should be weary off when viewing them in store? Thanks!

0.51c - 56 table:


0.52c - 57 table:

 

[rockysalamander]

They are so close in many ways, but I like the 56 table still! Seems like a winner.

Look carefully at settings for a stone this size. Its not hard to overwhelm it. At the same time, make sure the shank is not less than 1.8 mm (solid metal). 2.0 mm (pave or diamonds). At setting like this that has a narrow shank at the top and normal width at the bottom can really help.

 

[Aimyr]

What do you mean with overwhelming it? Too much metal, too little stone? If that's the case then I think you and my girlfriend are on the same wavelength since her pinterest had a whole bunch of settings that narrow towards the diamond and I remember her telling me she likes those sort of settings as well. 0.5c seems to be the average around these parts and most rings she would've seen in stores would be around this size as well so I figured I'd play it safe and just get what everyone else seems to be getting. Her finger size is 49 (or a USA 5) so I assume it would look pretty balanced as well. But hey, if I get it all wrong I can upgrade!

This is the ring/setting I bought. (Stock pictures below, not exactly sure of the diamond size)
I had it measured in the store and if I can read the jewelers handwriting correctly it's 2.0-1.2mm width, so quite a bit thinner than what you suggested :S Are you talking about the width, or the "thickness" of the shank? I'm not really sure about the terminology here.

 

[rockysalamander]

My worry was just that many american focused settings would be too thick. You choose just right with this setting. It's delicate without being flimsy. This should be perfect!

 

[Aimyr]

Ok thanks!
Should I be concerned about the angles not matching the ideal 34/41, 34.5/40.8 or 35/40.6 combinations? I'm a bit worried since I don't have any ASET/IS images and if I should just go with what is mathematically correct. Or if I'm being silly since you won't be able to tell with the naked eye anyways?

I'm starting to doubt if I should just order the 1 and keep looking for a combination I mentioned above, or just order both of them.

 

[rockysalamander]

The angles on the 56 are in my favorite range. It will be awesome.

 

[Aimyr]

Help! I'm starting to freak out a bit :S Thanks for easing my mind a bit but after having done all of this research on cut the last months I'm worried I'm going to be disapointed by the result knowing that it's not Whiteflash/Brian Gavin as I initially was looking for I doubt I'll see the difference but if I'm having to pay a retail premium I would also prefer being "mind-clean" knowing I'm getting something good in return at least.
So on Friday I asked the jeweler if they can get their hands on idealscope/ASET images but since they're not as widespread as in the US I'm not sure if they'll be able to deliver Because of the weekend nothing has moved forwards on this.

So yeah, I'm starting to panic a bit that I will be let down My jeweler uses a Belgian distributor (and cutter? not sure). I've just found out about Crafted By Infinity so I'm going to ask my jeweler if they can get their hands on one of those. My question now is if there are any other Belgian distributors/cutters or brands I should look into that I can persuade my jeweler to buy instead of their usual stock? Cos it's really important to me that I'm getting the best cut.
Thanks!

 

[rockysalamander]

The diamond posted above is great. The setting you posted is great.

But, if you want a CBI or other super-ideal diamond, than get a super-ideal. Don't constrain yourself to the jeweler you found. The setting you like is not uncommon. It is easily found or made by others. The version I posted to highlight the pinch is made by Whiteflash (another super-ideal vendor).

Do check, but I don't believe that CBI can be acquired by your jeweler. They are only available to select jewelers. But the Belgium distributor is well-regarded and likely can make/source a similar setting.

http://www.fortrez.com
Setting: http://www.fortrez.com/jewelry/detail/112768/2/Ring-0925335.htm

Whiteflash Setting: https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm
Diamonds: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3372512.htm

I would also suggest that unless your girl is highly color sensitive, a G color would appear just as white and VS are likely just as clean by eye when carefully selected.

 

[Aimyr]

Yeah I might've shot myself in the foot by jumping the gun I'm afraid. I bought the solitaire ring last month but I'm free to upgrade setting/diamond or get something custom made by the store. I valued that flexibility at the time, knowing she would be able to get the exact setting she wanted. I said I had specific diamond proportion requirements they said they could meet, which they´ve mostly done with the diamonds I mentioned above. I'm not sure I can return any of it and get a cashback though, I might be stuck with this jeweler.

Anyhow, I felt pretty good about the jeweler so far and they've been very accomodating up to now but now that I saw the diamonds I can notice some very slight symmetry problems. Am I correct in assessing that the symmetry is better in the one with table 56 over the other? I'm not sure how any of this would affect the lighting performance though and how it would look like in an idealscope/ASET image. I doubt I would accurately assess the lighting performance if I had to do it manually with a scope, so it'll gnaw at my conscious knowing that I perhaps could've gotten something better for the money. It didn't bother me so much last month but now it does, also since they couldn't find a G-VS1 and only have those E-VVS2´s (which will cost me a little bit more). So now I'm overpaying for something I (nor my girlfriend if I know her at all) don't quite value as much, I'd prefer spending that extra on getting a better cut instead.

Thanks for all of the information again in any case, I'll get back to you if the store updates with info on idealscope/ASET and CBI. If they don't I'll see if they would take the unusual request of buying one from Whiteflash/Brian Gavin instead.

Do you think there's any value in getting the diamond sent to AGS? I'd hate to find out the pavillion angle is closer to 40.5 :/ Or get a Sarin report if they can get their hands on that?

If none of this is possible I guess I'll have to lick my wounds and learn from the experience. I doubt my girlfriend would care about any of this though. She'll be happy with it regardless

 

[rockysalamander]

If you bought the setting, it's yours. You own it. If they do not let you take your setting without a diamond, they will refund you. Call the CBI vendor and have them source a stone to fit and set in your setting. Easy peasy. With the exception of a few custom jewelers, I would not have my super-ideal diamond set by anyone other then the seller. While rare, setting a diamond can cause damage to it. You want the super-ideal vendor to be able to replace the diamond with one of the same quality. Your jeweler won't be able to do that. Here in the US, jewelers have to carry different (more expensive) insurance if they wish to set outside stones vs. one's they source for this reason

(edited for clarity)

 

[Aimyr]

Oh sorry for not being clear. I meant the ring + diamond came as one. It was the display ring, nothing´s been engraved or correctly fitted to her finger size yet. It´s just mean to propose with and then returned to be fitted correctly and pick a new diamond. I'll check their refund policy in any case.

 

[rockysalamander]

Oh sorry for not being clear. I meant the ring + diamond came as one. It was the display ring, nothing´s been engraved or correctly fitted to her finger size yet. It´s just mean to propose with and then returned to be fitted correctly and pick a new diamond. I'll check their refund policy in any case.

That is a very unique model of selling. Its basically a loaner ring. Wow. But, do check the policies. In the US, there is usually a defined window during which refunds must happen.

 

[Aimyr]

Got H&A in the mail for the diamond we've been discussing (56 table). Unfortunately no idealscope/ASET :S So I'm not sure if these can help in assessing the lighting performance at all?
Obviously not cut to superideal standards but it looks pretty reasonable amongst the non-ideal assortment of diamonds out there? Or not?

I´m going over there tomorrow to discuss their policies and such but if I'm locked in already then I think I'll probably end up ordering it to the store for further inspection Any further insights though?

 

[rockysalamander]

The H&A suggest a slight asymmetry in cutting. The hearts have clefts. All told, this would not be qualified as a H&A cut. But, you also did not specify you wanted a H&A diamond. To look at the light return, you'd need an ASET or IS image. This is a reasonably well-cut stone. Given you already have a diamond in a ring, do you have the specs for that?

 

[Aimyr]

Could the hearts image be tilted? I remember finding some info regarding that on prosumerdiamonds.com (see image below)
It's probably just wishful thinking though... It's just that the shafts in the Arrows picture look more misaligned compared to the normal photo that got me thinking that.

It's absolutely not on par with an H&A branded stone but they don´t carry that premium cut (nor price I presume) so I just wanted to know if we could determine light performance based of it after all, or if there were any things that were super red flags... There´s some scary looking H&A pictures online so at least it's not as bad as those.

The diamond in the ring is posted on the first post. It's a steep/deep 62.5% 35.5/41.2 2EX+VG.
This led me to request a 34-35/40.6-41 3EX so I've already gotten an improvement there. Not sure how much more I can push it. I can still request them to order more stones to the store but I'll do that after I've proposed so I know if she´s OK with the 0.5c or wants something bigger. Figured I'd spare some goodwill with the jeweler for later. They must be growing tired of my requests but it was good practise for March.

 

[Aimyr]

Alrighty another update, I hope I'm not boring anyone with this process. What started as some simple questions suddenly turned into a quest! It's easy to fall inside of the rabbit hole!

As a backup I contacted a goldsmith if they were OK making a ring if I bought a superideal stone and she hesitantly agreed but it was a bit frowned upon and she didn't even believe in superideal cuts since she wasn't a gemologist so I'm not sure I connected well with her tbh. Feels like no one wants to deal with customer bought stones around here, I guess it's just their business model to need a cut from a diamond sale. :/

Anyhow, I contacted my jeweler again and practically begged them if I could bring in my own superideal after all. After some negotiations they said they needed to draw the line somewhere and that it was exactly there. HOWEVER, they are going to look into sourcing/buying a stone from Whiteflash/Brian Gavin/Crafted By Infinity themselves for me since they were concerned and wanted me to walk out of the store happy. They just needed to keep a certain standard internally with how they deal with customers and their processes. Anyhow, hopefully we can make it work this way!

Afaik it wouldn't even be that much more expensive (or at all actually!) because of the low dollar compared to the high retail prices here. I already paid an outrageous price for a diamond, so might as well exchange it for a superideal! Fingers crossed!

PS: The jeweler was interested in buying the 0.51-56table stone, regardless if I take it or not so they'll have that one soon in the store.

 

[SimoneDi]

OP, I feel that you are going through a lot of trouble with local jewelers just to get a setting thst is easily replicable anywhere else. Your local jewelers won’t be making their money on the setting, but on the diamond which is why they are reluctant to work with you. Not to mention that I would not want Jody any jeweler handling my super-ideal stone as hey would not take any responsibility for the stone (and rightfully so) and although rare, damage and chipping can happen. From the super-ideal vendors, only maybe HPD/CBI would be able to ship a stone to your local jeweler. They will not pay retail price form any of the other vendors. Alternatively, you cans simply purchase a stone and setting online from a reputable vendor and save yourself the hassle.

 

[rockysalamander]

OP, I feel that you are going through a lot of trouble with local jewelers just to get a setting thst is easily replicable anywhere else. Your local jewelers won’t be making their money on the setting, but on the diamond which is why they are reluctant to work with you. Not to mention that I would not want Jody any jeweler handling my super-ideal stone as hey would not take any responsibility for the stone (and rightfully so) and although rare, damage and chipping can happen. From the super-ideal vendors, only maybe HPD/CBI would be able to ship a stone to your local jeweler. They will not pay retail price form any of the other vendors. Alternatively, you cans simply purchase a stone and setting online from a reputable vendor and save yourself the hassle.

The bummer is that he did purchase the ring already. Now, he's basically upgrading it.

Op...is a return impossible?

 

[TreeScientist]

The bummer is that he did purchase the ring already. Now, he's basically upgrading it.

Op...is a return impossible?

This. It sounds like you're going through a lot of hassle for nothing. Why not just return the ring if the store isn't willing to work with you regarding the diamond you want? Would be much easier to order the diamond and setting from the same online vendor (Brian Gavin, WhiteFlash, HPD, or CBI) and then have it sent to you.

That being said, I actually don't think the diamond you posted with a 56% table is bad. Not a Super Ideal, but my guess is it would still perform great.

But if you're really set on a Super Ideal, get what you want. It's not worth having regrets on a purchase this large. Also, I'm betting you could get a Super Ideal from one of the online vendors for the price that this store is charging you for the diamonds posted above.

 

[Aimyr]

A return is unfortunately not possible since it was bought over 15-30 days ago. Only exchange is possible.

Why do you think they wouldn't pay retail prices for Brian Gavin/Whiteflash? Lets say they got X$ profit out of their current diamond sale to me and the superideal costs Y$ more than what they currently bought my diamond for. If they charge me Y$ more they get to keep their initial X$ profit and I'm left with a stone I actually want. I even have some wiggle room because of prices overseas being cheaper than here. I can also downgrade from the F-VS1 I have to a G-VS2. Because of all of this it could mean it doesn´t end up being so much of a difference, although it´s possible I vastly underestimate wholesale vs retail prices though? Any input here? :S

The way I'm approaching this is imagine if you could buy a superideal diamond, not online, but for the premium price that is usual in a brick and mortar store. If you don´t have any other options, is that really the end of the world? Is it a bad deal? Yeah pretty much, but after all of this trouble I can honestly live with that price difference (within reason) as long as I get the stone I wanted! I'm paying outrageous amounts of money either way, better that I leave satisfied!

Thanks for all of the input though! Unfortunately I can´t act on any of the advice since I´m locked in so this is my last shot at getting a superideal besides buying yet another ring.

@TreeScientist I think I could get almost 2 superideal diamonds for the price I´m paying now, I kid you not :/ I paid $5650 for ring + 0.5 F-VS1 (Sweden). So I could buy for up to $4500 since customs would charge 25%. 1 regular diamond for the price of 2 superideals, or 1 superideal for the price of 2,5 superideals... That´s unfortunately the choice I have. Relatively the price doesn´t jump up much, but personally I feel like I´m getting way more value out of it even if the market and resale value wouldn´t agree with that.

 

[ringo865]

The would have to buy the branded diamond for the same price you would buy it for, and they'd have to pay all the customs, etc., same as you. AND THEN, they would charge you that same price you could buy it for PLUS their "profit" for the "convenience" to you.

 

[SimoneDi]

The bummer is that he did purchase the ring already. Now, he's basically upgrading it.

Op...is a return impossible?

Ah bummer.. would the jeweler agree to a refund if they can keep a restocking fee for example? OP have you asked?

 

[rockysalamander]

I still think the 56% table will be lovely. Really. Do have a look at it before you go through the extra hoops.

OP remind me what country you are writing from?

 

[TreeScientist]

I still think the 56% table will be lovely. Really. Do have a look at it before you go through the extra hoops.

OP remind me what country you are writing from?

He's from Sweden.

I agree, the 56% table diamond would be lovely, and would be, for all intents and purposes, as good as a Super Ideal in everyday life (aka you wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless you were scrutinizingly comparing the diamond right next to a Super Ideal). If you can't return it, then just go with the 56% table and be happy that your diamond is better than 99% of the diamonds on the market today.

 

[TreeScientist]

Holy s&@t, I just saw your edit. $5650 for that ring and a 1/2 carat diamond?!? OK, here's what you do:

1.) Return that ring. There's gotta be a way to return it with a re-stocking fee. Or tell them you only want the setting and will bring your own diamond.
2.) Buy a $300 round-trip ticket from Stockholm to New York for a weekend for $300 (yes, they are that cheap on Norwegian Airlines)
3.) Go to ID Jewelry and buy a diamond and a setting (frequently recommended on this site as one of the few honest resellers in the diamond district who will get you a great diamond for a great price). If you wanted to stay in the .5 carat range, you could get a VERY nice diamond+setting here for about $2500, or go larger with your remaining budget
4.) Come back about $2500 richer, and get a weekend in New York out of it.

 

[TreeScientist]

For example, here's a True Hearts at James Allen (will perform basically the same as a SuperIdeal) for $2180. ID Jewelry can pull almost any diamond from JA's virtual inventory, as they're right down the street from each other:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4169249

Or another option, just order the JA diamond + setting, have them ship it to Sweden and pay customs on it (still much cheaper than the stone you purchased)

 

[TreeScientist]

Finally, listen to @ringo865 above. The reason the retailer you're working with can't get a SuperIdeal is because the SuperIdeal lines are in-house, branded stones, meaning the reseller you're working with couldn't buy them for wholesale pricing unless they established some sort of third party reseller agreement with them (which wouldn't be worth the hassle for them for a single stone). They want to make that 50-60% over wholesale price as commission, so of course they wouldn't purchase a SuperIdeal at retail price and then give it to you at slightly over retail price. That wouldn't be worth their time (making 10% off a customer is not as good as making 60% off a customer).

 

[SimoneDi]

I second @TreeScientist suggestions above!

OP the price that you paid for a 0.5xt solitaire with a mediocre diamond is outrageous! My previous 1.5ct branded H&A cushion cost just a little over what you paid. It is a grossly overstated amount and you can get a much better deal elsewhere.