Help a newbie with an upgrade - OEC or RB?

[Ashley_E]

Hello pricescope....I've been lurking on these boards for a while and am now seeking some additional advice from the experts. My dear hubby said that I can upgrade my engagement ring, and I am trying to do some research on what I would like. I know I want a stone that "faces up" large (of course without compromising the beauty of the stone) so that leads me to believe that a round brilliant should be my shape? I also really love the look of the OEC's as well, and it seems that it is possible to find an OEC that faces up large, although it seems that generally they face up smaller than a RB of the same carat size. It also seems that OEC's face up whiter than RB's, so does that mean I could get a lower color OEC, and thus at a potentially cheaper price, and have it look the same as a higher color RB? I guess my overall question (and forgive my rambling) is will I get a larger, whiter looking stone if I go the RB route or the OEC route? I know that each of these types of stones are beautiful in their own right, but my main priority is having the finger coverage (without compromising the beauty/quality of the cut).

Any advice would be appreciated!!

 

[Chicago Girl]

Hello pricescope....I've been lurking on these boards for a while and am now seeking some additional advice from the experts. My dear hubby said that I can upgrade my engagement ring, and I am trying to do some research on what I would like. I know I want a stone that "faces up" large (of course without compromising the beauty of the stone) so that leads me to believe that a round brilliant should be my shape? I also really love the look of the OEC's as well, and it seems that it is possible to find an OEC that faces up large, although it seems that generally they face up smaller than a RB of the same carat size. It also seems that OEC's face up whiter than RB's, so does that mean I could get a lower color OEC, and thus at a potentially cheaper price, and have it look the same as a higher color RB? I guess my overall question (and forgive my rambling) is will I get a larger, whiter looking stone if I go the RB route or the OEC route? I know that each of these types of stones are beautiful in their own right, but my main priority is having the finger coverage (without compromising the beauty/quality of the cut).

Any advice would be appreciated!!

I would like to hear responses from experts as well, as I have recently started learning about OEC's on this site...

 

[yssie]

Hello pricescope....I've been lurking on these boards for a while and am now seeking some additional advice from the experts. My dear hubby said that I can upgrade my engagement ring, and I am trying to do some research on what I would like. I know I want a stone that "faces up" large (of course without compromising the beauty of the stone) so that leads me to believe that a round brilliant should be my shape? I also really love the look of the OEC's as well, and it seems that it is possible to find an OEC that faces up large, although it seems that generally they face up smaller than a RB of the same carat size. It also seems that OEC's face up whiter than RB's, so does that mean I could get a lower color OEC, and thus at a potentially cheaper price, and have it look the same as a higher color RB? I guess my overall question (and forgive my rambling) is will I get a larger, whiter looking stone if I go the RB route or the OEC route? I know that each of these types of stones are beautiful in their own right, but my main priority is having the finger coverage (without compromising the beauty/quality of the cut).

Any advice would be appreciated!!

Have you actually seen some OECs of the size you're thinking about, and compared them to RBs in-person?

I ask because as it stands you're liable to get twenty responses to your post with twenty different suggestions from twenty people with different personal preferences. Some of us would prefer an OEC, some of us (like me) would prefer an MRB... but our preferences aren't what's important here!

OECs are in general much harder to judge by the numbers because true antiques aren't likely to have symmetric faceting patterns (physical and optical (virtual)) like RBs. They were generally cut to preserve weight and so face-up smaller than RBs for the same carat weight, though there's quite a bit of variance. They don't "face up whiter" than RBs but the nice ones show edge-to-edge light return like nice RBs, and because the virtual facets (the facets you see when you look into the stone, reflections of facets and reflections of reflections) are bigger, and because bigger facets reflect and ultimately refract higher-energy outputs back to your eyes, and because higher-energy means bigger and brighter, and because our eyes interpret "brighter" as "whiter"... OECs "face-up whiter".

IMO OECs photograph beautifully - the asymmetries and abraded facet meets and large, chunky patterning... RBs by contrast are so predictably patterned, they make for very boring photos! Still photos and those 'round-on-the-pedestal videos so many vendors are preparing these days aren't good ways to judge real-world performance or whether you'll like the type of light return any particular stone specialises in. You really do have to see it for yourself, no shortcuts.

...

 

[bunnycat]

I think the first thing that would be good to do is go to see some rings with OEC's in them if you can. They perform differently than a MRB, in general. There are lots of threads on here if you search in the box up top about OECs, MRB versus OEC and so forth. I would also read through some of those.

Modern RB are pretty easy comparatively to find a well cut one. It's easy to review the numbers, point you to trusted vendors who deal in super ideal/ideal cuts and Bob's Yer Uncle, you are done.

OEC's are not at all like that. Numbers don't mean a whole lot and you can't just say "I want an J VS1 2ct stone" and have it be that easy. You will spend a lot of time looking for stones you like, facet patterns that attract you and other things and may end up going through several stones before you find what you like or want. Working with a vendor like Jewels By Erica Grace or Old World Diamonds will be your safest bet, unless you spend a lot of time educating yourself on them to hunt for them yourself. You are right that they can be cut deep so face up smaller than an MRB ideal cut of similar weight.

I think your first step is to do a little research on here to see if you like what you see when you look at them and see some stones in person if you can.

 

[Ashley_E]

Have you actually seen some OECs of the size you're thinking about, and compared them to RBs in-person?

I ask because as it stands you're liable to get twenty responses to your post with twenty different suggestions from twenty people with different personal preferences. Some of us would prefer an OEC, some of us (like me) would prefer an MRB... but our preferences aren't what's important here!

OECs are in general much harder to judge by the numbers because true antiques aren't likely to have symmetric faceting patterns (physical and optical (virtual)) like RBs. They were generally cut to preserve weight and so face-up smaller than RBs for the same carat weight, though there's quite a bit of variance. They don't "face up whiter" than RBs but the nice ones show edge-to-edge light return like nice RBs, and because the virtual facets (the facets you see when you look into the stone, reflections of facets and reflections of reflections) are bigger, and because bigger facets reflect and ultimately refract higher-energy outputs back to your eyes, and because higher-energy means bigger and brighter, and because our eyes interpret "brighter" as "whiter"... OECs "face-up whiter".

I appreciate your response very much. I have not yet looked at stones in person - I am kind of starting all of my research now, so my question stems from me trying to decide which stone I should focus on. I definitely will not purchase a stone without seeing it first (or purchasing online from a PS recommended vendor with a return policy) but just wanted to get some more information. At the risk of sounding materialistic (but also being honest!) my main priority is finding a beautiful stone, whether it's a beautiful OEC or a beautiful RB, that gives me maximum finger coverage. That's my #1 priority. Can it be affirmatively stated that either RB's or OEC's are generally more expensive than the other, or is it just entirely depending on the situation?

 

[Ashley_E]

I think the first thing that would be good to do is go to see some rings with OEC's in them if you can. They perform differently than a MRB, in general. There are lots of threads on here if you search in the box up top about OECs, MRB versus OEC and so forth. I would also read through some of those.

Modern RB are pretty easy comparatively to find a well cut one. It's easy to review the numbers, point you to trusted vendors who deal in super ideal/ideal cuts and Bob's Yer Uncle, you are done.

OEC's are not at all like that. Numbers don't mean a whole lot and you can't just say "I want an J VS1 2ct stone" and have it be that easy. You will spend a lot of time looking for stones you like, facet patterns that attract you and other things and may end up going through several stones before you find what you like or want. Working with a vendor like Jewels By Erica Grace or Old World Diamonds will be your safest bet, unless you spend a lot of time educating yourself on them to hunt for them yourself. You are right that they can be cut deep so face up smaller than an MRB ideal cut of similar weight.

I think your first step is to do a little research on here to see if you like what you see when you look at them and see some stones in person if you can.

Thank you for your response! I absolutely need to do more research than I have (even though I feel like I've spent hours searching on this site, I know there's so much more to learn). Maybe there isn't a clear cut answer to my question as to what is generally more expensive, a MRB or an OEC? I personally do love the look of some of the OEC's that I have seen on the JBEG website (admittedly none in person) but I will also say that my priority is just getting a stone that has the best spread (is that correct terminology?) whether it is a MRB or an OEC.

 

[bunnycat]

Have you actually seen some OECs of the size you're thinking about, and compared them to RBs in-person?

I ask because as it stands you're liable to get twenty responses to your post with twenty different suggestions from twenty people with different personal preferences. Some of us would prefer an OEC, some of us (like me) would prefer an MRB... but our preferences aren't what's important here!

OECs are in general much harder to judge by the numbers because true antiques aren't likely to have symmetric faceting patterns (physical and optical (virtual)) like RBs. They were generally cut to preserve weight and so face-up smaller than RBs for the same carat weight, though there's quite a bit of variance. They don't "face up whiter" than RBs but the nice ones show edge-to-edge light return like nice RBs, and because the virtual facets (the facets you see when you look into the stone, reflections of facets and reflections of reflections) are bigger, and because bigger facets reflect and ultimately refract higher-energy outputs back to your eyes, and because higher-energy means bigger and brighter, and because our eyes interpret "brighter" as "whiter"... OECs "face-up whiter".

I appreciate your response very much. I have not yet looked at stones in person - I am kind of starting all of my research now, so my question stems from me trying to decide which stone I should focus on. I definitely will not purchase a stone without seeing it first (or purchasing online from a PS recommended vendor with a return policy) but just wanted to get some more information. At the risk of sounding materialistic (but also being honest!) my main priority is finding a beautiful stone, whether it's a beautiful OEC or a beautiful RB, that gives me maximum finger coverage. That's my #1 priority. Can it be affirmatively stated that either RB's or OEC's are generally more expensive than the other, or is it just entirely depending on the situation?

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong, but retail on OEC's versus MRB has a gap that has been closing up lately, I think. Your bonus is that as most people will say, you can probably drop down in color on an OEC and possibly save some cash that way but until you know which one you like better visually, it's kind of a moot point. There are still a few deals to be found out in the wild west of Ebayland, but it's not a route I'd suggest for your first time.

HOnestly, I wouldn't go about this from a "which is cheaper?" standpoint. You can certainly find some cheaper OEC's, just like you can find cheaper MRB's. But just like with a MRB the ones with better cut (that you can get an idea of by looking at the numbers) are going to cost more than one that is less well cut. The downside on OEC's is you do not have numbers to rely on for initial culling. You need experienced eyes or someone to do it for you.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep my options open and look at both possibilities unless you know for certain you prefer only one or the other.

 

[Ashley_E]

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong, but retail on OEC's versus MRB has a gap that has been closing up lately, I think. Your bonus is that as most people will say, you can probably drop down in color on an OEC but until you know which one you like better visually, it's kind of a moot point. There are still a few deals to be found out in the wild west of Ebayland, but it's not a route I'd suggest for your first time.

HOnestly, I wouldn't go about this from a "which is cheaper" standpoint. You can certainly find some cheaper OEC's, just like you can find cheaper MRB's. But just like with a MRB the ones with better cut (that you can get an idea of by looking at the numbers) are going to cost more than one that is less expensive. The downside on OEC's is you do not have numbers to rely on for initial culling. You need experienced eyes or someone to do it for you.

You clearly know much more about this than I do, so this is a genuine question, but what is wrong with the "which is cheaper" standpoint, if I am wanting to get the best bang for my buck? If you took a beautifully cut OEC and a beautifully cut MRB with the same diameter dimensions, clarity, color, etc....which would be more expensive? Generally speaking?

 

[Ashley_E]

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep my options open and look at both possibilities unless you know for certain you prefer only one or the other.

Fair enough! I do need to continue to research as much as possible!

 

[bunnycat]

I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong, but retail on OEC's versus MRB has a gap that has been closing up lately, I think. Your bonus is that as most people will say, you can probably drop down in color on an OEC but until you know which one you like better visually, it's kind of a moot point. There are still a few deals to be found out in the wild west of Ebayland, but it's not a route I'd suggest for your first time.

HOnestly, I wouldn't go about this from a "which is cheaper" standpoint. You can certainly find some cheaper OEC's, just like you can find cheaper MRB's. But just like with a MRB the ones with better cut (that you can get an idea of by looking at the numbers) are going to cost more than one that is less expensive. The downside on OEC's is you do not have numbers to rely on for initial culling. You need experienced eyes or someone to do it for you.

You clearly know much more about this than I do, so this is a genuine question, but what is wrong with the "which is cheaper" standpoint, if I am wanting to get the best bang for my buck? If you took a beautifully cut OEC and a beautifully cut MRB with the same diameter dimensions, clarity, color, etc....which would be more expensive? Generally speaking?

Not quite exactly a fair question, because many people find they can only go down so far in a modern stone, and can drop lower in an old cut. But for basic reference here is a price on a 3ct K modern stone:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/3.09-carat-k-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-25785

versus retail pricing on a 3ct old cut L on the front page of OWD website:

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/

good luck finding your preference!

 

[AprilBaby]

Do you prefer a vintage or modern setting?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I wanted excellent cut in an OEC, so I went with a newly cut OEC called an August Vintage Round from Good Old Gold. But they are scarce and a little more expensive than an ideal cut round brilliant. A lot of antique OEC's will be a little deeper than a mrb, so I am thinking that you need to focus on ideal cut round brilliants. I do not think you can say that OEC's face up whiter. It is just that some people are willing to tolerate more color in an antique stone than they would in a modern cut rb. Finding a well cut rb will be a LOT easier than an OEC, and you shouldn't go after an OEC unless you are in love with them, and I am not really hearing that from you.

 

[arkieb1]

If you are after size alone its complicated!!! A round brilliant size wise versus and OEC will generally be larger and look larger because better cut OECs are deeper and have taller crowns than round brilliants. A well cut RB can visually appear larger on the hand and in certain styles of settings..... Having said that you can find transitional diamonds that were cut between OECs and modern brilliants that give a lot of flash and fire that face larger than both.

Better cut stones regardless of the type of cut will always give you more fire and sparkle which is what most people desire.

Colourwise my threshold for a round brilliant is a high "I" or a white facing "I" colour. I love lower coloured RBs as well down the bottom end X, Y, Z and some in the middle but it depends on the colour they appear on the hand, so I take it on a stone by stone basis. Old cuts can hide colour so in theory yes you can get a very white facing stone that is in a mid to lower colour range for less money. Some, however are "cape" stones and can look very yellow or very brown. Its best to ask a lot of questions and better again, if you can actually see the stone yourself because what looks white to one person might not look white to you and what looks tinted to one person might look white to you.

If you have a chance go and look in some second hand shops, antique jewellery shops or pawn shops and jewellery stores with new items - try and see a range of stones to see what your eye prefers. Also try on things - you should quickly get a sense of what size feels right for you.