Help a newbie out with a blue sapphire purchase :)

[chrono]

The colour is pretty but I'm concerned it may have a cut issue. I thought the centre of the sapphire looked rather light and a bit different and this was confirmed when I verified the depth of the stone. It measures rather shallow and while it might not be windowed, expect to spot a tilt window rather easily. This stone was not faceted by Andrew.

Spinels are tough and durable, if slightly less so than sapphires. It is a very good candidate for e-rings.

 

[airplay355]

Thanks for the advice! Is there a secret trick to looking at a stones measurements and knowing how it will look?

I'll talk to her about spinel...it's less run of the mill than sapphire, and we're kind of going for that so maybe she will like it

 

[chrono]

Not a secret at all but note that it will not work 100% of the time, but works more often than not. Divide the depth over the length (or averaged length and width, again the number used depends on the shape of the stone). Anything lower than 60% spells trouble although I like to stay above 65% just to be safe. Anything higher than 75% spells trouble too but for different reasons. If colouration is excellent, I am willing to accept the smaller face up measurement up to an 80% depth as long as the extinction isn't bad.

A caution on spinels; many blues tend to black out outdoors and many tend to gray out indoors. A good blue spinel can be elusive but when you find it, it is unbelievable to behold!

 

[airplay355]

Thank you so much! Your advice is invaluable! I'm really starting to understand what to look for and what to avoid. Now I won't have to buy every stone I think I like just to see it in person

 

[ChrisA222]

Also...

A trick I learned is to look for stones that might have great color,clarity, but not the best cutting...because you can have a stone recut for not a lot of money. The key is that the stone has to have enough depth...if there's not enough material to work with, it won't recut.

Generally, when I say recut, it usually means just the stone from the girdle down. Most of the time, the native-cut stones are cut for weight retention and that results in poor optics. With stones with heavy bottoms/bellies, or incorrect angles used in the pavillion, you won't get the sparkle from the stone that it is capable of providing. I did it with my Sapphire in my avatar and it really worked well.

There are some great cutters who would recut the bottom of the stone for under $100, sometimes half that. Dan Stair (www.customgemstones.com) and Jerry Newman (www.gemartservices.com) are the two that I use for partial-recuts.

Dan cuts a lot of Sapphires...you may want to even contact him to see what he has to offer. You are guaranteed a top-cut gemstone, which makes a big difference in how it will perform. Yes, I am cut-obsessive..but what catches the eye better than incredible sparkle and fire coming from the stone? Just a thought. And, like I said...the stone has to have depth for this to work, and I LOVE Chrono's numbers that she posted..if you find one with the depth close to 70+ that would be ideal for a pavillion-recut.

 

[chrono]

Chris,
Not just enough depth, but it must be very clean. With sapphires, one has to also make sure the recut does not make any colour zoning more obvious too, supposing the tweaking is minor enough to not decrease the tone and saturation.

 

[ChrisA222]

Right about that.

 

[airplay355]

As promised, here are some pictures of the stone. Some are 10x and some are a little higher, I didn't label each picture with the mag I used though. These are backlit pictures. Compare with the original pics posted on page 1 from the vendor. You should be able to see all the naturals, the fuzzy center, and the cracked windshield effect. These are highly technical, industry accepted terms The stone also fluoresces pretty heavily under UV light. The swirly blue marks turn bright orange. Not sure if that is normal or makes this stone even less desirable.

I've already gotten in contact with gemline and then said returning it is no problem. My e-mail was answered about 15 minutes after I sent it, on a Sunday! At least that part went well

 

[airplay355]

As promised, here are some pictures of the stone. Some are 10x and some are a little higher, I didn't label each picture with the mag I used though. These are backlit pictures. Compare with the original pics posted on page 1 from the vendor. You should be able to see all the naturals, the fuzzy center, and the cracked windshield effect. These are highly technical, industry accepted terms The stone also fluoresces pretty heavily under UV light. The swirly blue marks turn bright orange. Not sure if that is normal or makes this stone even less desirable.

I've already gotten in contact with gemline and then said returning it is no problem. My e-mail was answered about 15 minutes after I sent it, on a Sunday! At least that part went well

 

[airplay355]

We did some more shopping together and she's made some new decisions...

It doesn't have to have a sapphire center stone; spinel, tourmaline, ruby (I know, it's just a red sapphire, I've been reading ), sapphire, tanzanite are all candidates provided you guys don't think tanzanite and tourmaline are too soft (I think tanzanite is too soft for everyday where, tourmaline is borderline but spinel and sapphire should hold up fine). What do you guys think? She's a professional ballerina so the only chance to scratch it would be doing her hair and makeup She wants it set in a micro pave halo, so that will offer some additional protection for the edge of a softer stone.

The color doesn't have to be blue. Light pinks all the way to hot pinks are acceptable (blue still is too, except lighter robins egg blues/teal).

The cut has to be oval, antique cushion or cushion. Oval is her favorite. She's also decided she wants a concave cut because it's extra shiny. Other cuts will do if the stone is an amazing deal, or something like that...

Some candidates are...

http://www.gemfix.com/tourmaline_red_pink.html tourmaline_rp_1066, tourmaline_rp_1067, tourmaline_rp_1065

http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5252
http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5725
http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6669
http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=4057 (I think this one is TOO big and will end up getting beat up from being in a ring, but she definitely likes it. Thoughts?)

 

[chrono]

A good ruby is going to be more difficult to find than a good sapphire, so it's something to keep in mind if you think the search will be too tiring. Tanzanite and tourmaline are not recommended for e-ring stones, even if care is taken. Tourmalines chip easily and you already know about tanzanite. Garnet will hold up better than tourmaline if she takes extra care (remove it as soon as she steps through the door at home and that sort of careful wear). The halo will only offer girdle protection, still leaving the crown facets exposed but as mentioned above, a garnet will do fine. Do note that even a micropave ring requires careful wear as the ring can easily be bent out of shape and have the melees drop out.

Has she seen a concave cut in person? It's not exactly shiny so I am unsure what it means. It is not a sparkly stone, rather more of a shimmery stone. Some have even described it as "static". I think it is beautiful but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[airplay355]

OK, tourmaline/tanzanite are scrapped. I'll check out garnet and see if I can find something she'd like.

She's never seen a concave cut in person. From pictures online she seems to really enjoy it. I read it improves brilliance, I took this to mean it would sparkle more, be brighter/more flashy. Is that not the case? I'm not sure I know the difference between sparkle and shimmer. It's all the same to us boys

 

[chrono]

1066 - it is orangish brown around the edges. Perhaps some might call it peachy but that is what it is to me.
1067 - Nice strong colour
1065 - sweet pastel colour although super light.

With Gemfix, their colour accuracy is hit or miss, so please request hand shots.

RH 1 Blue - If interested, request this on a neutral rather than dark background which amps up the colour.
RH 2 Pink - This isn't exactly a rare colour. I've seen plenty of orangish pink spinels on eBay. Again, the dark background will skew perception.
RH 3 Pink - Sweet pink
RH 4 - Nice colouration, but again, the dark background could amp colour.

Also note that tourmalines colour shift more than sapphires and spinels, so the colour you see now, could brown out or get muddier under indoor lighting. There are some maintain a pretty look but most do not. You'll have to weed those out.

 

[chrono]

She's never seen a concave cut in person. From pictures online she seems to really enjoy it. I read it improves brilliance, I took this to mean it would sparkle more, be brighter/more flashy. Is that not the case? I'm not sure I know the difference between sparkle and shimmer. It's all the same to us boys

There might be some videos of concave cut stones on PS, so see if you can find one. With traditional cutting, you'll get big bold flashes of colour. With concave cutting, you'll get little slivers of colour, but lots of little slivers.

 

[SB621]

Have you thought about perhaps buying a colored stone ring that is an estate piece? That would really probably help with the pricing plus there are beautiful sapphire and ruby rings out there.

Check out
Jewels by Erica Grace (she has a drop coming on thursday with colored stone rings + they do layaway with no interest)
http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/home

Dover Jewelry (great store, but don't believe there starting pricing)
http://www.doverjewelry.com/

New York Estate Jewelers

 

[airplay355]

Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't realize the bright spots are ALWAYS bright. Static was a great word to describe it. I'm not sure I like it so much anymore...I'll have to check with my better half and see what she thinks.

 

[ChrisA222]

Airplay, Concave cuts are COOL! But, not for everyone as Chrono mentioned. I just got my first really excellent concave cut stone, an Aqua from Gene. I think that Concave cuts are great for solving tilt windows in low RI gemstones like Aqua. That being said, unless she really loves it...I think that the extra sparkles from a nicely cut faceted gem are my preference, especially for something that she will wear every day. You get so many different "looks" when the stone is moved.

IF she likes Pink..check out Spinels called "Mahenge Spinel". Do a search here, and you will see all the hot pink/bright pink/pinkish red, all vivid tones, here on PS. It is Chrono's avatar as well. That might be a better alternative to a pink sapphire.

This is one I know of thats for sale and won't break the bank. Is it a top top Mahenge, no. But it has some nice color and clarity, and this is being sold by a great vendor, Yvonne Raley on Etsy.

Size: 1.41 Ct
Measurements: 8.1 x 5.4 mm
Shape: Oval
Origin: Mahenge Mines, Tanzania
Color: Neon Bubblegum Pink
Treatment: None
Per carat price: $500
Price of gem: $705

 

[airplay355]

That's a great stone! You guys definitely know all of the best places to go!

Because the left side is darker, is that color zoning or just a function of how the light in the picture is? I can't tell the difference yet

 

[ChrisA222]

Not zoning...that's common for some ovals or other elongated cuts to not have all facets reflecting light at the same time.
Chrono or gene, was that explained correctly?

 

[chrono]

It is a function of how the light is reflected back to the eye due to the cut. I call it shadowing and do not like this look. When the stone is turned around, this darkening also moves around to the other side of the stone. Spinels typically do not show zoning, unlike sapphires.

 

[Starzin]

Ovals are the most susceptible to this and easier to avoid if you are open to cushions.

 

[minousbijoux]

Airplay, Bravo!! You picked up on the huge downside to that spinel, namely the significant difference in color between the two sides due to light. For a long time, we've been calling it "extinction" here, though the lapidaries have explained that it is caused by the angle of the light source and typically results from the viewer's head blocking light to one side. You commented right away, which means whether you want to believe it, you've learned a lot. Now go out there and find your stone - you can do it!

 

[chrono]

Ovals are the most susceptible to this and easier to avoid if you are open to cushions.

The squarer the cushion, the less likely you will see this. The more elongated the cushion, the more likely you will see this too.

 

[Starzin]

It might be worth checking out spinels 277 (I think your GF picked this one?) or 274 if you are looking for higher colour - over at Gemfix.

 

[airplay355]

I don't like the "shadowing" effect too much either. I feel like I can only see half the stone at any given time. The sapphire I had ordered had this problem as well.

There are just so many choices! This is much more complicated than strolling into the nearest Kays and picking out a diamond.

 

[airplay355]

More than I said I wanted to spend but I like this one quite a bit

http://www.thegemtrader.com/Sep12MSpinelPage.htm

 

[Starzin]

There are just so many choices! This is much more complicated than strolling into the nearest Kays and picking out a diamond.

Welcome to the coloured stone world Yes, it's much harder than picking a diamond because you can virtually pick a diamond by the numbers. That is impossible with coloured stones.

More than I said I wanted to spend but I like this one quite a bit

http://www.thegemtrader.com/Sep12MSpinelPage.htm

Yup...happens a lot - gotta be strong OTOH very nice - particularly given Brad's comments.

 

[ChrisA222]

Yes, thats the difference btween a $700 stone and a $2000 stone..better color, better optics, etc.

When I posted that stone above, with the shadowing, I had the small budget in mind...it isn't a bad stone when price is considered..plus, often the shadowing isn't an issue if the stone is set N-S. I've found this with a couple of my ovals. So lets not be TOO critical of Yvonnes stone, all things considered.

 

[chrono]

Contact Brad to see if he has anything within your budget. Also, sometimes he might entertain offers if it is a stone that has been sitting around for a while. You never know and the worst he can say is no.

Chris,
We all make sacrifices to keep within budget but I never sacrifice this much on cut, and I'm not even a precision cut nut. I'd rather get a smaller stone and see all of it than buy a bigger stone yet only see half of it. No one is being too critical. We are only stating our preferences. The spinel also has a rather longish window that may or may not close up once set.

 

[airplay355]

I did not mean to offend Chris I'm still trying to figure out how much I need to spend to get something I want and this is complicated by the fact that I don't know what I want. For instance, I also like this stone http://www.thegemtrader.com/Oct12TSpinelPage.htm even though it's 1/3 the price of the mahenge spinel. Yvonnes stones are certainly beautiful and well priced. I appreciate the help you and everyone else here has given me!

No work today because of Sandy so I guess I'll be trying to find stones all day