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Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a ring

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
I am in need of an engagement ring.

Saw this ring in a large / reputable store in NYC Chinatown. The round diamond, with GIA cert is already set, similar to this BlueNile setting. http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-engagement-ring-white-gold_9937. I estimated the diamond price, prior to negotiation is $2492. (The price of the ring together is $2880 (i have not negotiated). I also looked at other loose diamonds to go with the setting, and found out the setting would be $388 if I buy another loose diamonds there)

Shape: Round
Carat: 0.71
Color: F
Cut: ?
Clarity: SI1
Cert: GIA

I think the cut is probably VG, but unfortunately I left without taking the down that important information.

Any advice?

1. Should I buy a ring with the diamond already set?
2. Is SI1 going to be a problem in terms of quality?
3. Is the price fair? ($2880 for the whole ring?)

Thanks in advance!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

We need more information from the lab report to judge cut quality. Can't judge price withou that information.

Si1 is usually find if graded by GIA. But would need the report number to make sure there are no red flag notations (like "clarity grade based on clouds not shown").
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

yeah -- I was hitting myself for not having the cut information.

However, is it possible to guestimate the value based on 3 cut scenarios?

If the cut is excellent, is the price ok?
If the cut is very good, is the price ok?
If the cut is good, is the price ok?

Then I can just go back to the store and ask for the cert, verify with a loupe and buy it there. Sorry I'm a novice so if the procedure sounds bad, I would appreciate your suggestions.
 

nkarma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
636
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1307981818|2944768 said:
yeah -- I was hitting myself for not having the cut information.

However, is it possible to guestimate the value based on 3 cut scenarios?

If the cut is excellent, is the price ok?
If the cut is very good, is the price ok?
If the cut is good, is the price ok?

Then I can just go back to the store and ask for the cert, verify with a loupe and buy it there. Sorry I'm a novice so if the procedure sounds bad, I would appreciate your suggestions.
Nope! Read up on HCA and cut on here. Cut is the most important factor to diamond's sparkle and we need all the numbers table, depth, etc...to determine the light performance of the stone (whether it leaks light or reflects it all back to the eye). The best thing to do is get the GIA number and we can look it up online.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1307981818|2944768 said:
yeah -- I was hitting myself for not having the cut information.

However, is it possible to guestimate the value based on 3 cut scenarios?

If the cut is excellent, is the price ok?
If the cut is very good, is the price ok?
If the cut is good, is the price ok?

Then I can just go back to the store and ask for the cert, verify with a loupe and buy it there. Sorry I'm a novice so if the procedure sounds bad, I would appreciate your suggestions.
You can doa search using the PS search function to check out those scenerios. ETA: Searching Blue Nile's website is also a good method for comparables.

For me, I would only buy a diamond with a GIA Ex or AGS0 cut grade, in addition to other indices of cut quality. For others, the lab report cut grade is succicient. But I won't comment on value without the actual information.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Gia report 1102228147
Thanks...
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

I would pass. It is pretty deep and only gets a 4.6 on the HCA.... you could do much better for your money.
ETA: Okay, you just changed to a different report! So this one is very shallow and is rated a "fair" on the cut so you know to begin with it isn't a great cut. The HCA on this one is 5.0 also not good. It's cut shallow to look bigger than it is.

Here are some options in that price range with top cut:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8306/
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2649049.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2638930.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040407590004
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104051366015

All from reputable vendors with great reputations, trade in policies, and return options if you aren't happy.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Thanks. I am actually back and apparently that one's sold anyway.

I am considering this one now, with the setting now priced at $2688...

GIA 6127848168

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.56 - 5.61 x 3.55 mm
Carat Weight: 0.70 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 63.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics:
Feather



nfowife|1308001107|2944998 said:
I would pass. It is pretty deep and only gets a 4.6 on the HCA.... you could do much better for your money.
ETA: Okay, you just changed to a different report! So this one is very shallow and is rated a "fair" on the cut so you know to begin with it isn't a great cut. The HCA on this one is 5.0 also not good. It's cut shallow to look bigger than it is.

Here are some options in that price range with top cut:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8306/
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2649049.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2638930.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040407590004
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104051366015

All from reputable vendors with great reputations, trade in policies, and return options if you aren't happy.
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

5.4 hca. I'd pass.
 

Sizzle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,304
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Why not just by from a reputable PS vendor and save yourself the drama
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,058
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1308003940|2945044 said:
Thanks. I am actually back and apparently that one's sold anyway.

I am considering this one now, with the setting now priced at $2688...

GIA 6127848168

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.56 - 5.61 x 3.55 mm
Carat Weight: 0.70 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 63.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics:
Feather
pass!!...these #s don't belong in an RB... :knockout: this stone was intentionally cut to make the .70ct weight
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

I would suggest you stick to GIA Ex cut grade to ensure a nice looking stone with balanced light performance accross lighting environments. If that means dropping color to G or H, then I would highly recommend that compromise, rather than trying to find a really nice GIA VG that is F color.

You can find nice GIA VG cut diamonds, but it is harder for a novice who has not "trained their eyes" by looking at many many stones and determined their own preferences.

You can also compare this diamond you are considering to another in your budget with a GIA Ex cut grade and then decide whether it is worth it to you to pay for the better cut or not.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

You guys are really helpful! (and I have so much to learn)

I decided to pass on this one, too. Despite the fact I was able to get the price of the diamond down to $2388 and the 18k white gold 0.21 ct total setting for another $300 for a sum of $2688. I hope I'm not regretting it...

I really do like to have 0.70+ ct, a color grade of F or better, with an excellent cut grade and no or minimal fluorescence. My total budget is about $2700 ($2100 for the diamond and $600 for the setting), because my girlfriend really likes the style of diamond setting. Am I just asking for too much?


Dancing Fire|1308007585|2945096 said:
motorman|1308003940|2945044 said:
Thanks. I am actually back and apparently that one's sold anyway.

I am considering this one now, with the setting now priced at $2688...

GIA 6127848168

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.56 - 5.61 x 3.55 mm
Carat Weight: 0.70 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 63.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.0%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics:
Feather
pass!!...these #s don't belong in an RB... :knockout: this stone was intentionally cut to make the .70ct weight
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Yes. With a $2100 stone budget you are going to have to go down in size and/or color to get an excellent cut diamond of around .7 carats. That is the reality of prices today for a GIA triple excellent or an AGS 000 which a top cut diamond will have. If you have a top cut you can generally go a little lower in color as they face up whiter than the crappy cuts you've been seeing.

How about one of these:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8412/
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8413/

or

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2632181.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2564434.htm
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

May I ask why you have a preference for F color or better? Have you compared F to G color in person? Is it a cultural preference?
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Dreamer_D|1308011697|2945155 said:
May I ask why you have a preference for F color or better? Have you compared F to G color in person? Is it a cultural preference?
I suppose. I like the diamond to look white... and my eyes /unfortunately/ pick out yellow quite readily... I've seen some G's and I think they are okay if can be compensated by better shine. My preference is not to go below G, and stay at 0.70ct.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Several things to note.

Badly cut stone shows more color, probably influence your color preception there.

Carat weight does not equal face up dimensions, the 1st stone you posted have the face up dimensions of a 0.75c stone, but is too shallow, will have obstruction issue. 2nd stone has the dimension od a well cut 0.65c stone.

These 2 have ths same dimensions as your second stone.
This could work if eye-clean. Request for idealscope image and ask if eye-clean if interested.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1382599.asp

This is slightly above your budget if you use wire-transfer to get further discount in additions to PS discount.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1303145.asp
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1308012934|2945172 said:
Dreamer_D|1308011697|2945155 said:
May I ask why you have a preference for F color or better? Have you compared F to G color in person? Is it a cultural preference?
I suppose. I like the diamond to look white... and my eyes /unfortunately/ pick out yellow quite readily... I've seen some G's and I think they are okay if can be compensated by better shine. My preference is not to go below G, and stay at 0.70ct.
Then you have a choice to make -- what is more important, carat or color? You will be unlikely, once set, to see tint in a properly graded and ideally cut G. You will also be unlikely to see a size difference between a .60ct and a .70ct once set. So the choice is yours! I don't think you can get both.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Dreamer_D|1308016832|2945232 said:
Then you have a choice to make -- what is more important, carat or color? You will be unlikely, once set, to see tint in a properly graded and ideally cut G. You will also be unlikely to see a size difference between a .60ct and a .70ct once set. So the choice is yours! I don't think you can get both.
I think carat would be more important -- i think it's a mental thing. :) I agree that you probably can't see a difference, especially if the diamond is ideally cut, between F and G.

I am looking at the following two candidates from an online retailer

Diamond#G1
------------
Measurements 5.70-5.73 x 3.53
Caret: 0.71
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Cloud
Cut: Excellent
Depth: 61.8%
Table: 56%
Symmetry: VG
Pol: VG
Girdle: Med - Slightly Thick
Culet: None
Fl: None
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pav Angle: 40.6
HCA: 0.9 (using the tool on pricescope)


Diamond#G2
------------
Measurements: 5.69-5.73 x 3.54
Carat: 0.71 carat
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal
Cut: Excellent
Depth:62.0%
Table: 57%
Symmetry: Excel
Pol: Excel
Girdle: Med to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Faint
Crown Angle:35.0°
Pav Angle: 40.6°
HCA: 1.0

Both are within my budget, with G2 slightly higher priced than G1.

1. Are these good choices? They do not post real pictures of the diamonds so I don't know how eye-clean these are.
2. Also, the problem with this online retailer is that they don't really have the setting I want, which is a inexpensive cathedral, pave, but thin 4 prong setting. Where would people get their settings?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Both might be good options.

Who is the vendor? I don't like the buy diamonds without images of the stones, and for SI1 I prefer that the vendor can look at the diamond in person. Can they call it in for you to examine in person and photograph before you buy?

What you describe is a fairly simple setting. Perhaps the vendor can get it for you if you provide a picture? Or would you consider a different vendor with a setting you like (since there are many vendors with stones similar to those you selected, sometimes selecting a vendor based on a setting can be a good way to go, provided the vendor has a good selection of stones).
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

I live chat with the vendor this morning. Apparently the diamonds themselves are on the other side of the country so I wouldn't be able to go and examine it. The saleslady will try to get photographs and if available, Sarin reports and get back to me if the the diamonds are still available. (I hope they are! and in eye-clean condition!)

When looking at a photograph, how do you determine it will be eye-clean?

Dreamer_D|1308032868|2945390 said:
Both might be good options.

Who is the vendor? I don't like the buy diamonds without images of the stones, and for SI1 I prefer that the vendor can look at the diamond in person. Can they call it in for you to examine in person and photograph before you buy?

What you describe is a fairly simple setting. Perhaps the vendor can get it for you if you provide a picture? Or would you consider a different vendor with a setting you like (since there are many vendors with stones similar to those you selected, sometimes selecting a vendor based on a setting can be a good way to go, provided the vendor has a good selection of stones).
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

you cannot determine if a diamond will be eye-clean from a photograph...you must define what eye-clean means to you and ask someone who is viewing the diamond in person.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Who is the vendor? We know most of them and can comment on their track record with eye clean etc.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

the vendor is b2cjewel. I am also considering eternity diamonds. there seems to be a couple of success stories posted here. thanks for your thoughts!

Dreamer_D|1308063291|2945552 said:
Who is the vendor? We know most of them and can comment on their track record with eye clean etc.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1308073910|2945723 said:
the vendor is b2cjewel. I am also considering eternity diamonds. there seems to be a couple of success stories posted here. thanks for your thoughts!

Dreamer_D|1308063291|2945552 said:
Who is the vendor? We know most of them and can comment on their track record with eye clean etc.
Too new to really comment on the vendor. Read their policies carefully re: returns and also any fees there may be for them to call in a stone from the supplier and then return it in the event you do not like it.
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

Neither are available -- back to ^1. :(sad

Thanks for your comments!
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

nfowife|1308086536|2945924 said:
Can't tell if it is eye clean but it is within your budget and hits your G and .7 requirements. HCA is exactly 2.0 and it is an AGS 000. You will need to check if it is eye clean to your specs and also request idealscope if you like it.
that looks like a candidate... thanks i'll contact them to see if it's eyeclean...
 

motorman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2011
Messages
22
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1308090409|2945984 said:
nfowife|1308086536|2945924 said:
Can't tell if it is eye clean but it is within your budget and hits your G and .7 requirements. HCA is exactly 2.0 and it is an AGS 000. You will need to check if it is eye clean to your specs and also request idealscope if you like it.
that looks like a candidate... thanks i'll contact them to see if it's eyeclean...
If the GIA-rated cut is lower (e.g., G or VG, instead of Excellent), but has an excellent HCA score, would that matter much?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Re: Help (1st timer)! 0.71 carat with GIA already set in a

motorman|1308092734|2946024 said:
motorman|1308090409|2945984 said:
nfowife|1308086536|2945924 said:
Can't tell if it is eye clean but it is within your budget and hits your G and .7 requirements. HCA is exactly 2.0 and it is an AGS 000. You will need to check if it is eye clean to your specs and also request idealscope if you like it.
that looks like a candidate... thanks i'll contact them to see if it's eyeclean...
If the GIA-rated cut is lower (e.g., G or VG, instead of Excellent), but has an excellent HCA score, would that matter much?
If you can find a GIA with a cut grade of VG and an HCA score under 2.0 and a good looking ideal scope image, then you will have found a rare bargain. Sometimes stones are demoted to VG for reasons irrelevant to light performance/optics, like symmetry or polish or a certain pavilion/crown angle. So you can look for GIA VG with those other features (HCA < 2 and good ideal scope) if you want.

Remember, the HCA is a dichotomous tool -- under 2 means condier, over 2 means reject. Stones scoring close to 2 may also be worth considering if you can get an idealscope image and/or inspect the stone in person to decide if you are satisfied with its appearance.
 
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