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Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yellow?

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
7
Hi everyone,

I'm trying to decide between 2 yellow Diamond e-rings:

1) 1.8 IF fancy vivid yellow, modified cushion.
6.83 x 6.83 x 4.36 mm
Medium Blue fluorescence
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 63.8%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 60%
Polish, very good
symmetry very good
Slightly thick to Thick girdle

2) 1.95 VS1 fancy intense yellow, modified cushion.
7.56 x 6.86 x 4.44 mm
Faint Blue fluorescence
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 64.7%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 62%
Polish excellent
Symmetry very good
Thin to medium girdle

These two rings happen to be carried by the same jeweler, and are $100 apart.

My dilemma: I prefer an elongated shape since my fingers are long, but my boyfriend prefers a flawless stone for the money he's spending - plus he's got an eagle eye for inclusions! We both want as yellow a stone as possible.

We can see 2 black inclusions in the intense stone, one on the side and one in the center, looking (closely, by eye without loupe) from the top. This stone is ever so slightly lighter in color, seems to have slightly white edges (North, South, East, West) under bright light, and seems to both glitter in the inside of the stone as well as throw chunkier light out (yay sparkle). The vivid stone is a perfect square, seems to glitter intensely inside the stone but doesn't sparkle on the outside as much/Throw chunky light out.

Both are beautiful to my untrained eye.

Attached are some pictures.

Could you please help me figure out why they're so close in price?
AND
Which stone would you choose and why?

A decision needs to be made today!

Thank you so much! Looking forward to reading all your responses.

image-1242559431.jpg

image706124578.jpg

image2138287486.jpg
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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31,792
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Did GIA grade both stones?

GIA is the most reputable lab for FCDs.
I'd never buy an FCD over perhaps $500 without a GIA report.
Why?
Because I worked too hard for my money.
I don't believe FCD color or clarity grades from other labs.

When it comes the FCDs GIA grades are the most-reputable of all labs.
... and since price is a function of the specs that means you can judge when the report is from GIA.
Other labs? Not so much. :blackeye:

If their reports are not from GIA I'd pass them up.
 

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
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Oct 27, 2015
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

No, these stones were graded by the jeweler (starts with T).
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Diamondog|1445999192|3942843 said:
No, these stones were graded by the jeweler (starts with T).

A jeweler 'grading' their own stones is an oxymoron!
That's like a student grading his own final. :knockout:
Can you say, conflict of interest?

Take your money to Vegas.
Better odds.

I've bought many colored diamonds from Leibish.
http://www.leibish.com
I LOVE this vendor.
 

Travelgal

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
329
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Is there a reason why you are looking at the jeweler that starts with T and assuming ends in Y? Many here will say why pay for something you can't see (ie inclusions). A VS1 stone is almost always eye clean- there may be instances where you can see an inclusion with the naked eye, but the exception not the rule. Do you have your heart set on this brand? I ask, because we can probably help you find a great stone for half the cost you are looking at, but don't want to go in that direction if you have your heart set on robins egg blue.
 

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
7
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

I see your point. It does make me slightly uncomfortable that they don't get the stones independently graded. But I do also know they're reputed to hold themselves to a higher standard than most jewelers. I'm not one of those people that dream of an e-ring from this vendor. They just have the closest to what we are looking for.

Leibish is a great vendor, I looked at their offering and didn't see anything that fit our desired criteria. Have called around to quite a few places and seems like stones in this size range/clarity/color are difficult to come by.
 

gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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3,406
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

kenny|1445999316|3942844 said:
Diamondog|1445999192|3942843 said:
No, these stones were graded by the jeweler (starts with T).

A jeweler 'grading' their own stones is an oxymoron!
That's like a student grading his own final. :knockout:
Can you say, conflict of interest?

Take your money to Vegas.
Better odds.

I've bought many colored diamonds from Leibish.
http://www.leibish.com
I LOVE this vendor.

X10000.

Listen to Kenny.

I have also bought 3 FCDs from Leibish.
Really happy with service from Leibish. very patient and accommodating.

Oops- posted at the same time when i read your comment about Leibish.
As far as T+(Y, i would still consider getting the stones graded by GIA. if there was a reason to resell/ upgrade at some point, ppl are going to ask for the GIA report. Unless you upgrade with T_)_)y again.
 

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
7
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Thanks, Greg and Kenny. Your advice is appreciated.

Getting my purchase graded by GIA after purchase is a very good idea. I'll do some reading on this.

This assumes I'll make the purchase. If I make the purchase, which one should I choose? Time is ticking until decision time. (15 hours....)
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
31,792
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Diamondog|1446000751|3942852 said:
Thanks, Greg and Kenny. Your advice is appreciated.

Getting my purchase graded by GIA after purchase is a very good idea.

GIA grading AFTER purchase is a terrible idea.

Price is a function of grades.
Paying price T, THEN grading the stone properly is putting the cart before horse.

If you must buy from Toofunny just close your eyes, hand them the money, and don't look back.
 

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Kenny and Greg, I understand that grading is important. Seeing the stone is also important - and I can't seem to find any vendors that carry more than 1 stone for me to evaluate. T***Y was one of the last places on my list, and I had just stopped by there out of curiosity after a month of searching and inquiries with 10+ jewelers with no real results.

They were the only vendor that has had more than 2 matches to choose from. I've already eliminated 3 of 5, but choosing between these two stones really stymies me.

Some life events need to happen soon, and waiting around for months until the perfect stone pops up and then designing a setting isn't really an option, although ideal.

With your expertise, could you please teach me about these stones so that I can make a more informed decision? (and perhaps that decision may be to walk away)
 

Diamondog

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

LLJsmom,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

Those diamonds you suggested are beautiful as well - they have the lemon yellow color that I'm looking for. I prefer the rounded edges of a cushion cut, more like this.
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/ind...w-vs1-cushion-cut-gia-exceptional-stone-r4606

The price is in between those two stones you suggested, closer to the 2nd. From what I have seen online, the T markup doesn't seem nearly as ridiculous as I had imagined.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Messages
78
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Diamondog|1445998463|3942838 said:
We can see 2 black inclusions in the intense stone, one on the side and one in the center, looking (closely, by eye without loupe) from the top.

Both GIA and "Blue Box" grading you should not see inclusions in a VS1 stone without magnification. If I was looking at the photograph I see head shadow 'obstruction' across the centre of the stone(a function of the cut) not inclusions so I can't validate what you saw.

Could you please help me figure out why they're so close in price?

Color trumps all other factors in FCDs a Vivid is worth more than a Fancy Intense hence the similar pricing. But "Blue Box" pricing doesn't have to follow the rest of the FCD market it can be priced at a substantial premium or may be only be priced with a slight one.

Blue Fluroro in Yellow FCD has a negative impact on FCD pricing as it can wash out the intensity of the yellow under UV containing light.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
31,792
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Diamondog|1446005278|3942862 said:
From what I have seen online, the T markup doesn't seem nearly as ridiculous as I had imagined.

But without independent grading you don't know how good a price is since grades set price.
Everything depends on the integrity of those grades, and self-grading is the ultimate conflict of interest.

Be wise.
Falling for jeweler-determined grades is like believing all those personal ads about all those perfect sexy babes, all 21, all rich, all everything you want them to be.
 

gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
3,406
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

+1 With Kenny, again.


GIA reporting is more well renowned to get the understanding of the stone that you are getting.

So getting GIA report BEFORE you pay is better than AFTER.

Scenario:
you pay $X for the T*(## stone.... their report says it is XYZ.
You send it into GIA to get it graded.
GIA says the stone it is ABC.

The pricing of XYZ> ABC.... how are you going to feel that you paid more that what it is worth?

I know timing is the issue... but if this person is the person whom you are going to propose and therefore spend the rt of your life with, I would hope that a few months more is not going to be an issue. However, there is nothing wrong with saying... that is the time frame that i have set and i am going to get the best bling for my $. And if these 2 stones are the 2 that you are choosing that is ok, too. But you will then have to ignore the fact that the stones are not reported by GIA, but T.

Someone else commented on the colours of the pictures of the stones.

I will make this comment about comparing both stones: you need a standardise pictures of the stones that you are going to be comparing. ie both sets of pictures need to be the exactly same. both have to be head on, both have to be side on and so on, both on the same background. If you go to the leibish website, all stones have been photographed exactly the same. This shows you the credibility of the vendor. You can critically assess BOTH/ any stone. The pictures that you have given of both stones have been taken at differnet angles adn therefore reflect different lighting. So, it is dangerous to compare the 2 stones that you have shown us.

However, your eyes have seen these stones in real life and in instore lighting. Others can comment oninstore lighting!
 

kb1gra

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1,063
Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Tiffany is a pretty reliable joint as far as grading, though I don't know that anyone knows if that holds true for their FCDs.

However, if you want a ring - what is your plan if you bought a stone set in a pendant?

If you plan to pull a Tiffany stone out of its Tiffany setting, and use it elsewhere, you've significantly devalued the stone because signed jewelry is only worth what it's worth as a complete signed piece. I guess it all depends on how much you're willing to pay for the retail experience of being able to see a FCD in person - which, FYI, is really not a thing. In FCDs, the odds are pretty much all-on that you will need to either have a jeweler bring in stones for you, or order them yourself online for viewing. It's not something you can just walk in off the street and expect to see a broad array of, like white stones. And you're limited to what is on the market at the time you're looking, so if you "can't wait" then you're potentially going to pay a lot more.

I'm pretty sure if you called him, David at DBL could find you what you want.

I don't like #1, and I doubt that you are actually looking at a Tiffany stone that is VS2 and not eye clean. That's not a product they'd sell, so I think you're seeing something else.

And if a feature of FCDs that you don't like is that light bounces around inside them versus sparkles - probably not the right avenue. FCDs are specifically cut this way.
 

chrono

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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Agree wholehearted with Kenny, Greg, and kb1gra. Without independent GIA grading, those stones are unlikely to be as stated by TF, especially given that you can seen the inclusion in a supposedly VS1 diamond. Note that colour sets the pricing, not clarity. As it is, I would that their Vivid and Intense grading with a grain of salt due to the strong conflict of interest.
 

sharonyanddave

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Chrono|1446035706|3942962 said:
Agree wholehearted with Kenny, Greg, and kb1gra. Without independent GIA grading, those stones are unlikely to be as stated by TF, especially given that you can seen the inclusion in a supposedly VS1 diamond. Note that colour sets the pricing, not clarity. As it is, I would that their Vivid and Intense grading with a grain of salt due to the strong conflict of interest.

+1 Color trumps everything and without GIA standard and grading you may think you are getting a "deal" when instead could be paying double instead.

Look at these two stones in your spec range:

http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamonds/fancy-vivid-yellow-cushion-23402 52k

or

http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamonds/fancy-intense-yellow-cushion-22029 21.4k

30k difference predominantly on the difference between Fancy Intense and Vivid yellow saturation. A picture or a video isn't really going to help you decide what is "yellow enough" it really will depend on your lighting and the viewer's eyes.

While none of us here should decide what is ultimately the most beautiful to you, everyone is cautioning you about fair pricing and in FCD a GIA report really sets the standard. Sometimes the "Blue Box" may have a GIA report you can ask them, without it you could be paying way too much.
 

Diamondog

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Messages
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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

so T***y agreed to take the stone out of the pendant if I choose that one, and set it in the ring setting. so non-branding is a non-issue.

and as for the color, to my eye, they're EVER so slightly different - but by very little. seems like they're on the cusp, but seems subjective.

kb1gra, what is it that you don't like about stone #1? i'd' find your opinions helpful.

i prefer the look of the light inside the stone in FCD than the flashes of light outside the stone of a white diamond. however, when comparing the 2 side by side, #2 seemed to have both, whereas it was very difficult to get an outside flash with #1. is this an indicator of anything?

yes, there are inclusions in #2. the salesperson was shocked when she verified with loupe.

i regret not taking pics of the stones head-on, side by side in the same position/lighting. sigh. last chance for advice!

DECISION TIME :/
 

kb1gra

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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Diamondog|1446058987|3943089 said:
so T***y agreed to take the stone out of the pendant if I choose that one, and set it in the ring setting. so non-branding is a non-issue.

and as for the color, to my eye, they're EVER so slightly different - but by very little. seems like they're on the cusp, but seems subjective.

kb1gra, what is it that you don't like about stone #1? i'd' find your opinions helpful.

i prefer the look of the light inside the stone in FCD than the flashes of light outside the stone of a white diamond. however, when comparing the 2 side by side, #2 seemed to have both, whereas it was very difficult to get an outside flash with #1. is this an indicator of anything?

yes, there are inclusions in #2. the salesperson was shocked when she verified with loupe.

i regret not taking pics of the stones head-on, side by side in the same position/lighting. sigh. last chance for advice!

DECISION TIME :/

I don't like the lack of facets in the midline to the left and right. I prefer a stone with edge to edge faceting that keeps the light inside, like #2.

I realize the colors for this are not accurate because of the differences in the photography, but I really don't see such a strong color difference between the two that I'd be pursuing #1 solely because it's a fancy vivid.

I'm afraid to ask the prices on these, because I'm sure they're astronomical relative to what you could find out in the open market if you really put out the search.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

Hey Dog!!

If there were 10 high res pics of each, I'd still say that any evaluation based on pics is incomplete....but with the pics you have, any assessment is blind....
Personally, the GIA report is crucial to me, as a buyer. But there's many reasons people choose the blue box- so not every buyer has the same considerations.

I can not comment specifically on another vendors diamond- but in general- Medium Blue is a wildcard- even more so in a Vivid Yellow.
The most remarkable Vivid I've seen had Strong Blue Fluorescence- yet in far more cases, MB or SB Vivid Yellows have proven to have undesirable ( to me) color variation.
Remarkably, there's just no consistent "right" answer on this subject.
I'd say MB or SB lowers the price of Yellow diamonds- but in the case of the noteworthy stone I referred to- It was an SI2, and Strong Blue, yet it cost about double average market price of other Vivid Yellow VS stones with NO blue.
So we can't make rules.....

Tiffany's ( there, I said it) has a very strong consumer reputation- if you're comfortable there,it's hard to argue with that.....
 

gregchang35

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Re: Help! 1.8 IF Fancy Vivid Yellow vs 1.95 VS2 FIntense Yel

It seems that time is of the issue here and seeing stones physically v virtually is going to prove more in line with your thinking for both of you.

I am by no means great a picking FCDs.... but here is my novice assessment.

Based on the 2 stones that you have described and the pictures that you have provided, in the time frame that you are in: this is what i see:-

Stone 1: in the first pic there are areas where the colour seems to fade out. it is at the 3 oclock and 9oclock position. in the second pic of stone 1, there is not that fade out of colour.
Stone 2: The colour seems to be more all over the stone. But it could be the angulation of the picture.. ie more like picture 2 of stone 1. I understand that you can see black inclusions with the naked eye... that is a deal breaker for me. However, they graded that VS1.

I guess the next thing is the price. Is stone 1 and stone 2 about $100 difference?

If I had to choose between these 2 stones: i would choose stone 1 at a push. It is nice to say that i have an IF stone...... and from Tiffanys!

if the inclusions do not bother either one of you then i think stone 2 would be the better option... the dimensions suit on your finger and the overall colour saturation based on the pics you provided are better than stone 1.

I hope that helps.

When you choose the stone.. dont look back... it is the stone that you have chosen. dont second guess yourself once the choice has been made. you will give yourself an ulcer and a bigger headache!!!

of course, comeback when you have made the purchase and the ring is completed!

Exciting.... Woo hoo!>
 
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