Hello and how much should I pay for this diamond?!!

[saradbx]

Hello Everyone

,

This is my first post - I am a complete newbie to diamond hunting and would like some expert advice please! I live in Dubai and would like to buy a diamond. I started researching on the net and going to the Diamond Park (in Dubai) to view stones only a couple of weeks ago, so I am just finding my feet with it all. So far, I have settled on the following specifications:

HRD certificate
Very Good proportions
Excellent polish and symmetry
VS2 (with no inclusions directly under the table)
G colour
No flourescence
Culet small or very small
Girdle thin to slightly thick
Round brilliant

I have been offered one diamond that has come close to the above, except the polish is ''good''. The table on this diamond is 64%, Pavillion depth is 41.5%, girdle is medium faceted 3.5%, it has a HRD Very Good grade for Proportion - final price $48,500. Sorry I didn''t write down the total depth but will get this tomorrow. I hope this is enough information and have a couple of questions for the experts..

1. There is no actual ''cut'' grade on a HRD certification. There is just Proportions, Polish and Symmetry. Is the Proportions grade the cut grade?
2. If I am only going to buy a Very Good Proportions diamond, which is the top grade for HRD, what are the good and bad variations for table and depth that I need to know within this grade?
3. Do you think this price is okay?
4. I am also considering buying from ajediam.com - they have a Dubai Diamonds wholesale price http://www.ajediam.com/Dubai_Diamonds_Prices.html - does anyone know anything about them?
5. I am going tomorrow to look at a diamond that one dealer has said is a ''Russian Cut'' that contains more facets than a normal diamond. I couldn''t find any information on this.. is this some kind of sales ploy?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Sara

 

[gwendolyn]

Hi there, Sara! What's the carat weight of that stone? I'm afraid I don't know anything about the company that certified that stone, so I can't comment, but I am curious what the size is.

 

[saradbx]

Hi Gwendolyn! I am looking for 3 carats - the one I was offered was 3.01. Most of the diamonds here are certified by HRD and IGI. HRD is (apppparently) Europe''s GIA equivalent. When I have looked at stones of the same clarity/colour grades from these labs side by side, the HRD stones have always been much better, so I am sticking to them!

 

[strmrdr]

sounds like commercial cut quality at a commercial cut price.
Myself id go smaller and a top cut.
A top cut 3ct is going too be in the 70k range for a G/VS which is where id go for color and clarity down to H/VS too save a little money.

Commercial cut is where you go when all you care about is it weighs 3ct....

 

[strmrdr]

Here is an example of a stone id consider having a PS vendor call in too give you an idea:
2.74 H VS2 61.3% 56% AGS no id id no 8.95x9x5.5 $31559

 

[strmrdr]

3.11 G VS1 61.1% 57% GIA tn-m no ex ex ft 9.4x9.43x5.75 $72510

 

[strmrdr]

Here is one in your range:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1087033.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

 

[saradbx]

Thanks Storm. I actually thought I was getting a top cut because the HRD grade ''very good'' is their top grade. Obviously not! I liked the look of the James Allen stone you linked to but I am not even sure anyone can deliver to me here in Dubai. I have contacted Union Diamond and they are trying to find out whether it is possible. The JA stone is an H.. what do you think about keeping it G and dropping to SI1? Which is the best option for value?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/16/2008 2:39:54 PM
Author: saradbx
Thanks Storm. I actually thought I was getting a top cut because the HRD grade ''very good'' is their top grade. Obviously not! I liked the look of the James Allen stone you linked to but I am not even sure anyone can deliver to me here in Dubai. I have contacted Union Diamond and they are trying to find out whether it is possible. The JA stone is an H.. what do you think about keeping it G and dropping to SI1? Which is the best option for value?

if you can find an eyeclean si1 its kewl but in 3ct vs2 is safer unless the vendor has the stone in stock.
If buying long range remotely in today''s market I think id drop too an H first.

 

[saradbx]

Thanks again but first I have to find someone I can trust. This is a big purchase for us and I need to be absolutely sure before I buy. Ideally I would like to buy at the local Diamond Park simply for the reassurance of being able to see the stone, and also the prices are competitive - it''s tax free too. I am getting very confused with the certification though - I have been told by many people and read online that HRD is a very well respected Antwerp-based grading lab. Their top grade for proportion is ''Very Good'' so this is what I have been looking for. Can you explain to me why it is a commercial cut? This would be very helpfu thanks.

 

[saradbx]

Can anyone explain to me why this diamond, given the top grade by HRD (supposedly Europe''s most respected grading lab in Antwerp), is a ''commercial cut'' and not as good as an ''ideal'' cut from another lab? I am very confused and would appreciate a clear, jargon-free answer from anyone...

 

[strmrdr]

Im up for a few minutes and saw your question.

64% table is well outside the "ideal" and "excellent" range.

There are 2 schools of what the best round cut is...
old school 60-60s 60% table with 60% depth, shallow crown, deep pavilion
modern ideal cut 55%-58% table with complementary angles.
usually 34 to 35 degrees for the crown and 40.6 too 41degrees and a little over 41 with crowns in the low 34s high 33s for the pavilion.
Then there are some pockets of other combos that can make for very nice diamonds...
Such as 36C/40.5P/55T that don''t fit in the above categories.

64% table isn''t in any of those categories....I call 64% tabled rounds aircraft carriers because the table is big enough too land a jet on.

 

[saradbx]

Thanks that is very clear and useful information. I am going to continue looking here locally using these figures as a guide and when I find something I like I will run the figures by you for verification! Bit worrying that this diamond had a ''top'' grade for proportions from a supposedly top lab.. I have posted another thread for industry experts to find out more about HRD although I am not holding out for replies.. thanks.

 

[gwendolyn]

Do you have to find someone who can import ideal-cut stones because you want to look at them in person first? The folks at GOG are happy to make videos of stones in different lighting to give you a good idea how they compare with each other. If you stick to round brilliants (which I think you are getting?), if you go by the numbers and run the stone by the experts here, you are guaranteed to get a great performer.

The only thing you''d need to figure out is what colour level you would be happy with, which I have to do myself! I''m going to find a local jewelry store and window-shop for diamond colour to see how low I can go, to get the most bang for my buck. Then I plan on ordering online, from GOG or WF! And save myself a TON of money from buying here (I am in the UK).

 

[gwendolyn]

There is one at GOG which is good--2.51 ct G VS2--scores a 1.9 on the HCA, although the pav and crown angles aren't listed so I had to go by percents (of which I know nothing, but they seem like the stone might possibly be a little bottom-heavy? I'm no expert):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=3009&shape=1&ctMin=2.5&ctMax=3.2&clarity=255&color=63&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=1

Regular price is $40,351.11, and $38,986.58 with the bank wire price. I know it's smaller than you want, but I just thought I'd throw it out there, just in case.

 

[saradbx]

Thanks Gwendolyn. I am considering buying online but I am looking around locally also. The prices here are very good and there is alot of choice, as Dubai has become a diamond centre as well as being tax free. I did talk to Union Diamond, but I never heard of WF and GOG until I came onto this site. I was really impressed by GOG and all the information they give, so I think I would probably go with them if I go an online purchase. In the meantime I am going to get down to the Gold and Diamond Park again and start looking again. Hopefully with my new knowledge I will at least avoid any more ''aircraft carriers'' lol