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Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"?

vasovist

Rough_Rock
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Jul 7, 2016
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12
Hi all, I'm in the market for an HOF engagement ring. GF has her heart set on one and despite the premium paid I have decided to limit my search on just HOF rings.

HOF is quoting me $11K+tax for a 1.00 center ct "Signature" and $13.4K+tax for a 1.00 center ct "Sensational". This is the Transcend Premier Halo Split Shank engagement ring.

Does anyone with experience with HOF know how much different the Sensational looks? HOF unfortunately gives a "range" for both these types, Signature being I/J and Sensational being G/H, both VS1-SI1.

So I'm not sure if the Sensational will ultimately be worth it. Thoughts?

Also, is there any advantage to buying directly through HOF vs. independent retailers that sell the rings? Can I expect a better deal from a retailer?

Thanks all.
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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4,273
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

I don't know much about HOF. However, you owe it to yourself to check out Briangavin.com and view their "signature collection"; and check out Whiteflash.com and look at their "A cut above (ACA)" stones. Many experienced PS'rs would most likely recommend you do this. Good luck! The price on those HOF stones seem quite expensive to me. :wavey:
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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10,433
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

Queenie60|1467948293|4052863 said:
I don't know much about HOF. However, you owe it to yourself to check out Briangavin.com and view their "signature collection"; and check out Whiteflash.com and look at their "A cut above (ACA)" stones. Many experienced PS'rs would most likely recommend you do this. Good luck! The price on those HOF stones seem quite expensive to me. :wavey:
+1 to this. I think if your GF appreciates HOF she would be excited about ACA or the BG signature collection. Another potential route is a CBI (crafted by infinity) diamond--I've heard only amazing things about them and they are among the best cut diamonds. So even if you do end up going with a HOF, it's always worthwhile to investigate some of the other "branded/ideal" cuts just to compare. Plus, that sounds like a pretty high price to pay, even for a branded cut. :wavey:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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55,629
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

I believe you can buy HoF settings without a diamond. At least that has been true in the past (but you could have similar ones custom made, if not). The good news is, there are other sources that sell diamonds absolutely equal to or better than Hearts on Fire. I looked at one when I was first looking for a diamond for our anniversary 10 years ago, and I discovered that HoF has extremely inflated prices! All true hearts and arrows diamonds are priced higher than a regular excellent cut diamond, but you can do MUCH better with other brands than HoF. You can get her a much larger stone for your budget.

So they are telling you $13,400 for a 1 ct G-H VS1-SI1. That sounds bizzarre, to be honest. Diamonds have an exact grade, and I can guarantee you that a G VS1 costs a good bit more than an H SI1. Is that including the setting or not???? It is not as horrible if it incluses the setting, but I would not consider a price with diamond specs not being firm.

Anyway, let me show you what their competition charges for almost identical stones. Prices range from $8945 to $7525 bank wire price (plus if you are out of state, they do not charge tax) for 1 ct G-H, VS-SI1.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3644857.htm?source=pricescope

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664937.htm?source=pricescope

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/g/HPD6436/?shop=yes

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/udzfxv-1.027-g-si1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round#cmp=prds

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search/1.04-ascendancy_heart_arrows-I-AGS--VS1-diamond-stock-12498-cert-104073164016

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/diamonds/HPD6697/?shop=yes

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/4thutz-1.024-h-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round#cmp=prds


Now, here's what you can get for $13k:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3642151.htm?source=pricescope

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/g/HPD7507/?shop=yes

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/pvmq8q-1.428-h-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round#cmp=prds

I agree wholly with getting the best cut diamonds. And the ones I have listed are absolutely as good or better for much more realistic prices.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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10,433
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

diamondseeker2006|1467950323|4052880 said:
I believe you can buy HoF settings without a diamond. At least that has been true in the past (but you could have similar ones custom made, if not). The good news is, there are other sources that sell diamonds absolutely equal to or better than Hearts on Fire. I looked at one when I was first looking for a diamond for our anniversary 10 years ago, and I discovered that HoF has extremely inflated prices! All true hearts and arrows diamonds are priced higher than a regular excellent cut diamond, but you can do MUCH better with other brands than HoF. You can get her a much larger stone for your budget.

So they are telling you $13,400 for a 1 ct G-H VS1-SI1. That sounds bizzarre, to be honest. Diamonds have an exact grade, and I can guarantee you that a G VS1 costs a good bit more than an H SI1.

Anyway, let me show you what their competition charges for almost identical stones. Prices range from $8945 to $7525 bank wire price (plus if you are out of state, they do not charge tax) for 1 ct G-H, VS-SI1.


I agree wholly with getting the best cut diamonds. And the ones I have listed are absolutely as good or better for much more realistic prices.
This is exactly the part that was a red flag for me as well. It's ridiculous to charge one rate for a "range" of diamonds. That makes zero sense, and it shouldn't be an issue for them to tell you EXACTLY what you are buying.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

Okay, I have just figured out something. They are setting a center stone in the setting and making a total price. It says $13,650 (plus tax) for a 1 ct signature center (I-J) and $16,500 for a sensational (G-H) center. So you ARE paying more for the sensational, which is a higher color stone.

http://www.heartsonfire.com/shop-jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/transcend-premier-hof-halo-split-shank-engagement-ring.aspx#s4VpEDMcCYXm4suz.97

Here they are saying that they provide you with a diamond quality document for the center stone. That is absolutely not in your favor.

"Hearts On Fire will provide a Diamond Identity Document to accompany each complete diamond engagement ring. The unique Hearts On Fire serial number, Hearts On Fire Cut quality, the Quality Category ranges (Sensational and Signature) and the specific carat weight will be documented on the Diamond Identity Document.

Every Hearts On Fire diamond engagement ring is offered as a complete ring with a center Sensational or Signature quality diamond."

http://www.heartsonfire.com/guidance/understanding-quality/sensational-and-signature.aspx#OAJaADXkYKtarBS6.97

No way. You want a diamond with an AGS Ideal cut or GIA XXX grading report to prove cut grade, color, and clarity. ASET or Idealscope images to prove light return. You also always should be selecting a loose center stone (graded) and then have it set in a setting. The customer is always the one who loses when stones are not lab graded. That lack of transparency is a huge red flag. This is more problematic than just being overpriced.
 

vasovist

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

Hi all, wow, I definitely wasn't expecting so many replies so quickly. Thanks again. To answer the general questions:

diamondseeker2006 said:
I believe you can buy HoF settings without a diamond. At least that has been true in the past (but you could have similar ones custom made, if not). The good news is, there are other sources that sell diamonds absolutely equal to or better than Hearts on Fire. I looked at one when I was first looking for a diamond for our anniversary 10 years ago, and I discovered that HoF has extremely inflated prices! All true hearts and arrows diamonds are priced higher than a regular excellent cut diamond, but you can do MUCH better with other brands than HoF. You can get her a much larger stone for your budget.

So they are telling you $13,400 for a 1 ct G-H VS1-SI1. That sounds bizzarre, to be honest. Diamonds have an exact grade, and I can guarantee you that a G VS1 costs a good bit more than an H SI1. Is that including the setting or not???? It is not as horrible if it incluses the setting, but I would not consider a price with diamond specs not being firm.
Thanks for this detailed post - I am going to investigate ASAP buying the HOF setting without the center diamond, and then I will look into the diamonds you posted - thank you so much for those.

And yes, sorry, the prices I quoted were the setting + center diamond. So the total ct weight is 1.40 which includes the 1.0 center diamond.

lovedogs said:
This is exactly the part that was a red flag for me as well. It's ridiculous to charge one rate for a "range" of diamonds. That makes zero sense, and it shouldn't be an issue for them to tell you EXACTLY what you are buying.
diamondseeker2006 said:
No way. You want a diamond with an AGS Ideal cut or GIA XXX grading report to prove cut grade, color, and clarity. ASET or Idealscope images to prove light return. You also always should be selecting a loose center stone (graded) and then have it set in a setting. The customer is always the one who loses when stones are not lab graded. That lack of transparency is a huge red flag. This is more problematic than just being overpriced.
OK, here is where I am hoping that someone with experiencing buying through heartsonfire.com directly can chime in here, because I am really wary about this. My understanding is that this is par for the course when buying direct through HOF. I completely understand that diamonds do not fall under a range of cuts, clarities, etc. - it is either a G/VS1/etc or it is not, period.

I emailed the rep I am working with through HOF to clarify if there is any way I can know before hand. If not, then perhaps my best option would be to buy the setting separately and just find my own loose stone - right?

I also want to say that I have been strongly encouraged by family/friends of my girlfriend to pursue this particular HOF (transcend split shank) - mainly because she has been so attached to it for so long. I completely understand I am paying a 20%+ premium to do so, but this is my girlfriend's wish and I sort of want to limit my solution space to this particular design, as frustrating as that might sound.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467951722|4052885 said:
OK, here is where I am hoping that someone with experiencing buying through heartsonfire.com directly can chime in here, because I am really wary about this. My understanding is that this is par for the course when buying direct through HOF. I completely understand that diamonds do not fall under a range of cuts, clarities, etc. - it is either a G/VS1/etc or it is not, period.

I emailed the rep I am working with through HOF to clarify if there is any way I can know before hand. If not, then perhaps my best option would be to buy the setting separately and just find my own loose stone - right?

I also want to say that I have been strongly encouraged by family/friends of my girlfriend to pursue this particular HOF (transcend split shank) - mainly because she has been so attached to it for so long. I completely understand I am paying a 20%+ premium to do so, but this is my girlfriend's wish and I sort of want to limit my solution space to this particular design, as frustrating as that might sound.
Is this the setting you mean? Just so we know what setting you're looking at: http://www.heartsonfire.com/shop-jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/transcend-premier-hof-halo-split-shank-engagement-ring.aspx

I think given the info we have about HOF you'd be much better off buying the setting by itself from them and buying a center stone elsewhere. I definitely understand wanting to give your GF what she wants, and applaud you for knowing her preferences and tastes and taking them seriously :appl: :appl:

Don't want you to think that I am trying to discourage you from what she wants, definitely not the case. We just want to make sure you are spending your money on the best quality that you can, and not spending extra for things you don't need to. If this is the setting she's dead set on that's totally fine--I'd just make sure that they use high quality melee for the halo + sidestones, and then let people here find you the best quality diamond that you can afford. DS gave you some drool-worthy options that will almost certainly be of higher quality (and more reasonable price) than HOF. :wavey:
 

vasovist

Rough_Rock
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Jul 7, 2016
Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

lovedogs|1467952890|4052892 said:
Is this the setting you mean? Just so we know what setting you're looking at: http://www.heartsonfire.com/shop-jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/transcend-premier-hof-halo-split-shank-engagement-ring.aspx

I think given the info we have about HOF you'd be much better off buying the setting by itself from them and buying a center stone elsewhere. I definitely understand wanting to give your GF what she wants, and applaud you for knowing her preferences and tastes and taking them seriously :appl: :appl:

Don't want you to think that I am trying to discourage you from what she wants, definitely not the case. We just want to make sure you are spending your money on the best quality that you can, and not spending extra for things you don't need to. If this is the setting she's dead set on that's totally fine--I'd just make sure that they use high quality melee for the halo + sidestones, and then let people here find you the best quality diamond that you can afford. DS gave you some drool-worthy options that will almost certainly be of higher quality (and more reasonable price) than HOF. :wavey:
Thank you so much! Just a question - and my apologies for my ignorance here - is there anything special I need to request when purchasing this setting? Do I need to have the final size of the loose stone in mind before I buy the setting so the setting is the appropriate size for it, etc.?

For instance HOF offers a range of total carat weights for this particular engagement ring - so I imagine the setting for each is different, right? So which setting do I request?

And I have to identify a jeweler willing to forge this together for me - right? Once I have the loose stone (say I get it from whiteflash.com or something) and the setting in hand, does it cost much to have it made together?
 

vasovist

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

Hi all, I reached out to the HOF rep, and here is what she said (edited names):

Another question that came up, I've noticed that the signature and sensational colors and clarities come in a "range" from G/H and I/J and VS1-SI1. Why is that? So if I order the 1.0 signature or sensational center, what color and clarity can I expect? Also, do your rings come with an AGS or GIA certification?
Her response:

Yes, we offer two categories of qualities for all of our engagement rings. We did this to give our customers two options of diamond qualities and price points. Sensational quality means that all of the diamonds, including those accent diamonds on the band itself will be G-H in color and VS-SI in clarity. If you choose signature quality, those diamonds will be I-J in color and VS-SI in clarity. All of the diamonds are hand picked to match each other including the center diamond that is chosen at time of production. Because the center diamond is serialized, you will also be receiving the Hearts On Fire Diamond Identity Document with purchase. All of these center, serialized diamonds are graded by the AGS lab, so if you want to request the AGS certificate for the center diamond, you can certainly do so. Like I mention above, if you order a sensational quality ring, the center stone will fall within the range of G-H in color and VS1-SI1 in clarity.
So she quite literally just repeated what I said to her. WTF? So buying a "Sensational" diamond can get me anywhere from a G/VS1 to an H/SI1.

I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around this situation because I thought by buying direct from heartsonfire.com I would avoid this kind of trouble. Should I just avoid them altogether and go through a retailer that sells HOF so at least I know a priori what diamond I'm getting?

No fault of the rep (she's actually been really nice to me), I can't believe people settle for this kind of standard for their diamonds when buying a BRANDED ring... am I missing something here, or is everyone that buys through HOF just losing out?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

That is ridiculous! Honesty I'd avoid them altogether at this point. You'd be surprised at how little they average customer knows about stones--people spend thousands at kays, Robbins brothers, Jared, etc, for uncertified horrible stones when they could have purchased much higher quality for the same price (or often for less). So yes, everyone who buys from them is getting overcharged significantly.

I'd go though a trusted vendor who can order the particular setting you want. That way you know exactly what you're getting, and the vendor can make sure the setting will fit your particular center stone. I'm not sure who of the trusted vendors here can get HOF settings, but maybe one of the more experienced posters can chime in on that?
 

vasovist

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

lovedogs|1467986253|4053022 said:
That is ridiculous! Honesty I'd avoid them altogether at this point. You'd be surprised at how little they average customer knows about stones--people spend thousands at kays, Robbins brothers, Jared, etc, for uncertified horrible stones when they could have purchased much higher quality for the same price (or often for less). So yes, everyone who buys from them is getting overcharged significantly.

I'd go though a trusted vendor who can order the particular setting you want. That way you know exactly what you're getting, and the vendor can make sure the setting will fit your particular center stone. I'm not sure who of the trusted vendors here can get HOF settings, but maybe one of the more experienced posters can chime in on that?
Thanks lovedogs, yes, I just asked the HOF rep if it is possible to buy the setting only.

Could you review my reply to your post above - what is the process of purchasing a setting + loose stone like? Could you point me to a post that describes that? Would just about any jeweler do this for me, about how much would it cost, do I need to purchase the loose stone first so setting can be fit to the diamond, etc...
 

diamond_newbie15

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467986559|4053030 said:
lovedogs|1467986253|4053022 said:
That is ridiculous! Honesty I'd avoid them altogether at this point. You'd be surprised at how little they average customer knows about stones--people spend thousands at kays, Robbins brothers, Jared, etc, for uncertified horrible stones when they could have purchased much higher quality for the same price (or often for less). So yes, everyone who buys from them is getting overcharged significantly.

I'd go though a trusted vendor who can order the particular setting you want. That way you know exactly what you're getting, and the vendor can make sure the setting will fit your particular center stone. I'm not sure who of the trusted vendors here can get HOF settings, but maybe one of the more experienced posters can chime in on that?
Thanks lovedogs, yes, I just asked the HOF rep if it is possible to buy the setting only.

Could you review my reply to your post above - what is the process of purchasing a setting + loose stone like? Could you point me to a post that describes that? Would just about any jeweler do this for me, about how much would it cost, do I need to purchase the loose stone first so setting can be fit to the diamond, etc...
I realize that your GF is in love with that particular setting. But has she seen it in person? Or only online?

I ask because the setting may or may not be great quality. It's $4900 (!!!) in platinum, and it's likely made from a mold. For the same price, you can hire a master ring maker who will hand forge the ring, and set quality melee by hand. This would likely be in the same ballpark (and much, much better made):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rHHmItU5zQ

EDIT: this one might be better since the HOF setting was a split shank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87vXgB2LYLI

But the style itself doesn't look unique and you should be able to reproduce it elsewhere with better quality.
 

vasovist

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

diamond_newbie15|1467987098|4053040 said:
I realize that your GF is in love with that particular setting. But has she seen it in person? Or only online?

I ask because the setting may or may not be great quality. It's $4900 (!!!) in platinum, and it's likely made from a mold. For the same price, you can hire a master ring maker who will hand forge the ring, and set quality melee by hand. This would likely be in the same ballpark (and much, much better made):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rHHmItU5zQ

EDIT: this one might be better since the HOF setting was a split shank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87vXgB2LYLI

But the style itself doesn't look unique and you should be able to reproduce it elsewhere with better quality.
Yes, she has seen it in person, I have seen pictures of her ring finger with it on (fwd'ed to me twice via her mom and best friend), and she has her heart set on this design.

Please understand my frustration when I say I am hesitant to go the custom made route. I have no doubt in my mind any reputable ring maker would be able to replicate this design, but as I said before I would like to limit my solution space on a ring that has the HOF name attached to it.

I'm hoping someone can chime in on purchasing a HOF setting only + a loose stone of their own and if that was a feasible route to go.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

We typically recommend buying stone first and then setting, since the setting should be specific to your exact stone size. The problem I'm afraid of in this case is that the HOF settings appear mass produced so they might not be making them for specific stones (e.g. they just make one type for 1ct, another for .5ct). So if you buy a .9 or 1.15ct then it might not work in their stock setting. Does that make sense?

I do agree w the previous poster that the setting she loves drom HOF isn't complicafed to make (for one of the trusted vendors on here), and you'd certainly get better quality stones in the setting by going with one of them. But I do understand that your GF loved this exact setting...but just keep in mind that there are vendors here who could make something incredibly similar and it would be an overall better setting.

I can't point you to a particular post about buying stone and setting separately, but it's done all the time. Usually you buy a stone and send it to the vendor who's making the setting (or who you are buying the setting from), and they set it for you. That cost is usually zero if you are buying a setting (E.g. some dont charge extra for setting a stone into their setting). Some might charge, but I believe the cost is minimal (although I haven't done this myself).

I think if I were you at this point I'd look at the diamonds posted above by DS, see which ones you like, and reach out to those vendors to see if they could source a HOF setting for you and set the stone.
 

diamond_newbie15

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467987782|4053049 said:
diamond_newbie15|1467987098|4053040 said:
I realize that your GF is in love with that particular setting. But has she seen it in person? Or only online?

I ask because the setting may or may not be great quality. It's $4900 (!!!) in platinum, and it's likely made from a mold. For the same price, you can hire a master ring maker who will hand forge the ring, and set quality melee by hand. This would likely be in the same ballpark (and much, much better made):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rHHmItU5zQ

EDIT: this one might be better since the HOF setting was a split shank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87vXgB2LYLI

But the style itself doesn't look unique and you should be able to reproduce it elsewhere with better quality.
Yes, she has seen it in person, I have seen pictures of her ring finger with it on (fwd'ed to me twice via her mom and best friend), and she has her heart set on this design.

Please understand my frustration when I say I am hesitant to go the custom made route. I have no doubt in my mind any reputable ring maker would be able to replicate this design, but as I said before I would like to limit my solution space on a ring that has the HOF name attached to it.

I'm hoping someone can chime in on purchasing a HOF setting only + a loose stone of their own and if that was a feasible route to go.
Ok. Please disregard my suggestion. I think your approach is the correct one since your GF knows what she wants, and has even worn the actual ring on her finger.

I would probably confirm that the setting is available alone and that they would set an outside stone, but wait until purchasing it until you have selected the stone. That way, you can keep your search for the right stone open, and not have to have the setting you purchase dictate the size of the stone you buy.
 

vasovist

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

lovedogs|1467987947|4053051 said:
We typically recommend buying stone first and then setting, since the setting should be specific to your exact stone size. The problem I'm afraid of in this case is that the HOF settings appear mass produced so they might not be making them for specific stones (e.g. they just make one type for 1ct, another for .5ct). So if you buy a .9 or 1.15ct then it might not work in their stock setting. Does that make sense?

I do agree w the previous poster that the setting she loves drom HOF isn't complicafed to make (for one of the trusted vendors on here), and you'd certainly get better quality stones in the setting by going with one of them. But I do understand that your GF loved this exact setting...but just keep in mind that there are vendors here who could make something incredibly similar and it would be an overall better setting.

I can't point you to a particular post about buying stone and setting separately, but it's done all the time. Usually you buy a stone and send it to the vendor who's making the setting (or who you are buying the setting from), and they set it for you. That cost is usually zero if you are buying a setting (E.g. some dont charge extra for setting a stone into their setting). Some might charge, but I believe the cost is minimal (although I haven't done this myself).

I think if I were you at this point I'd look at the diamonds posted above by DS, see which ones you like, and reach out to those vendors to see if they could source a HOF setting for you and set the stone.
diamond_newbie15 said:
Ok. Please disregard my suggestion. I think your approach is the correct one since your GF knows what she wants, and has even worn the actual ring on her finger.

I would probably confirm that the setting is available alone and that they would set an outside stone, but wait until purchasing it until you have selected the stone. That way, you can keep your search for the right stone open, and not have to have the setting you purchase dictate the size of the stone you buy.
OK - understood. Thanks lovedogs, diamond_newbie and all, I think this is the most feasible route for me. My next step will be to reach out to the vendors and investigate my options from there.

Thanks again.
 

vasovist

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

OK, the HOF rep got back to be re: purchasing the setting only:

The settings are made to accommodate our diamonds specifically, so we do sell them separately however there is no guarantee that a non-HOF diamond or gemstone would fit properly into the setting. This is why we typically sell our engagement rings complete, with the Hearts On Fire center diamond included.

However, if you want to consider it, you would have to purchase the setting from an authorized retailer directly. It would be $2900 USD + tax for it in 18k white gold, with the sensational (G-H) quality accent diamonds. It would take 4 weeks to make in your desired finger size from the day you place the order with the retailer. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
love_dogs as you say this seems to confirm that the setting is mass produced. What I'm worried about now is that if I buy a 1.0 +/- 0.1 ct diamond, I have no guarantee that it will fit onto that setting. Is that true? Perhaps I should speak to the vendor with the desired stone dimensions I have in mind and they will be able to figure that out for me?
 

CareBear

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

I just clicked around the link for the halo setting on HOF site and the way they allow you to select the center stone using simply 'Signature' and 'Sensational' is preposterous! Usually with a round halo setting, there is a slight bit of wiggle room for the diameter of the center stone that can fit the halo, vs other shapes where it has to be an exact fit. A reputable vendor should be able to tell you that diameter range. It is also not difficult to find a round stone with the exact diameter.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467988629|4053064 said:
OK, the HOF rep got back to be re: purchasing the setting only:

The settings are made to accommodate our diamonds specifically, so we do sell them separately however there is no guarantee that a non-HOF diamond or gemstone would fit properly into the setting. This is why we typically sell our engagement rings complete, with the Hearts On Fire center diamond included.

However, if you want to consider it, you would have to purchase the setting from an authorized retailer directly. It would be $2900 USD + tax for it in 18k white gold, with the sensational (G-H) quality accent diamonds. It would take 4 weeks to make in your desired finger size from the day you place the order with the retailer. If you have any further questions, please let me know.
love_dogs as you say this seems to confirm that the setting is mass produced. What I'm worried about now is that if I buy a 1.0 +/- 0.1 ct diamond, I have no guarantee that it will fit onto that setting. Is that true? Perhaps I should speak to the vendor with the desired stone dimensions I have in mind and they will be able to figure that out for me?

I would speak with the vendor with the desired stone in mind to see what they think. I agree with the previous poster (CareBear) that rounds give you more "wiggle room" than other shapes--you just want to be sure that your stone will fit into the setting.

I think that's why I'd try to purchase the setting through whoever you get the diamond from (if possible). I don't know who is or is not an authorized HOF dealer, so that's something you'd have to ask the vendor. But vendors know much more about the amount of 'wiggle room' in settings, so they should be able to help you with it.
 

diamondseeker2006

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55,629
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

You are safe if you buy exactly a 1 ct diamond (like 1.0-1.07) to go in that setting. No issues at all. If you buy the diamond from Whiteflash, for example, which I can guarantee will be equal or better quality and most importantly, AGS graded to know what you are getting, I think you can send the setting to them, pay them a setting fee, and they will set that diamond for you. Just when you talk to them, tell them you already have the setting to fit a 1 ct stone. I am not sure if the others will set the stones or not, but I can recall WF doing so in the past.

I think this diamond would be a great choice.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664937.htm?source=pricescope

That setting is a crazy price and there are like thousands of settings like it out there. BUT, I would far rather see you overpay for the setting than the diamond. So as long as you want to stick with a one carat center stone, then by all means tell HoF that you want to order the setting alone, in platinum, to fit a 1 ct center stone, and be sure you know the correct ring size.

With that diamond (assuming you don't live in TX) and buying the setting at $4900 plus tax, you'll be in the high $13k range with a G VS2 diamond which they would have charged $16,500 for, and still the diamond could have been H SI1!!!! MUCH better deal!!!

Or you could go to H VS2 and save $900:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3692936.htm
 

vasovist

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

diamondseeker2006|1467992265|4053117 said:
You are safe if you buy exactly a 1 ct diamond (like 1.0-1.07) to go in that setting. No issues at all. If you buy the diamond from Whiteflash, for example, which I can guarantee will be equal or better quality and most importantly, AGS graded to know what you are getting, I think you can send the setting to them, pay them a setting fee, and they will set that diamond for you. Just when you talk to them, tell them you already have the setting to fit a 1 ct stone. I am not sure if the others will set the stones or not, but I can recall WF doing so in the past.

I think this diamond would be a great choice.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664937.htm?source=pricescope

That setting is a crazy price and there are like thousands of settings like it out there. BUT, I would far rather see you overpay for the setting than the diamond. So as long as you want to stick with a one carat center stone, then by all means tell HoF that you want to order the setting alone, in platinum, to fit a 1 ct center stone, and be sure you know the correct ring size.

With that diamond (assuming you don't live in TX) and buying the setting at $4900 plus tax, you'll be in the high $13k range with a G VS2 diamond which they would have charged $16,500 for, and still the diamond could have been H SI1!!!! MUCH better deal!!!

Or you could go to H VS2 and save $900:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3692936.htm
diamondseeker, can't thank you enough for the specific recommendations.

Just so I have an idea of how much HOF is overcharging me: about what is the price difference for the highest quality color/clarity I can expect HOF to give me (G-VS1) and the lowest quality (H-SI1)?

I am completely on board with you though, the bigger issue is not so much the overcharging, it's the uncertainty of not even knowing what diamond I am paying for.
 

vasovist

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

Sorry another question - is there a reason I need to order the setting in platinum? My girlfriend would prefer white gold.
 

lovedogs

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10,433
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467994126|4053132 said:
Sorry another question - is there a reason I need to order the setting in platinum? My girlfriend would prefer white gold.
We generally recommend platinum for e-ring settings since it is more durable than white gold. The other disadvantage of white gold (vs platinum) is that your GF will have to get it re-dipped in rhodium once a year or so because the plating will rub off/fade over time (making it appear more yellow). As someone who has a 14K engagement ring, I definitely would recommend platinum as the white metal of choice since it's a pain to re-dip the ring, and I hate being without it while it gets re-dipped! Also, platinum "feels" nicer to many people--it's heavier and has a more luxurious feel. So I think if she wants a white metal and you can afford platinum go for it!
 

WillyDiamond

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

OP
I know that some of the posters who have responded to you are recommending WF and BGD as an alternative to HOF, but if your GF wants HOF and you have the extra coin to spend, that seems to be the direction, unless when you give it to her and tell her its not a HOF, she won't have that disappointed look. That is your call. My vote is to get her what she wants, given you have the money.

I am no expert, and I ask other PSers for advice all the time. I have held in my hands many of the top diamonds from some of the PS vendors, and they are beautiful. However, I was in St. Maarten last year and went into a diamond store that was a HOF dealer. I held with tweezers a 3 carat G/VS2, of course the price was over a $100K, but I have to tell you that it was the most amazing diamond I have ever seen. It just blew me away. Best of luck in your search.
 

vasovist

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Messages
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

WillyDiamond said:
OP
I know that some of the posters who have responded to you are recommending WF and BGD as an alternative to HOF, but if your GF wants HOF and you have the extra coin to spend, that seems to be the direction, unless when you give it to her and tell her its not a HOF, she won't have that disappointed look. That is your call. My vote is to get her what she wants, given you have the money.

I am no expert, and I ask other PSers for advice all the time. I have held in my hands many of the top diamonds from some of the PS vendors, and they are beautiful. However, I was in St. Maarten last year and went into a diamond store that was a HOF dealer. I held with tweezers a 3 carat G/VS2, of course the price was over a $100K, but I have to tell you that it was the most amazing diamond I have ever seen. It just blew me away. Best of luck in your search.
Thanks for the kind words. After I left this thread it got me thinking - I am certain my GF is set on the HOF setting, but I am not sure how she would feel if I did not get the HOF sourced diamond, despite the premium I would pay to get it.

A short update: I spoke with a local retailer that carries HOF and is very willing to work with me. Interestingly, while for the life of me I cannot figure out why when purchasing HOF online I am not able to specify exactly the color/clarity diamond I want, the local retailer IS able to go to HOF and tell them more specifics about my diamond. I'm not sure why retailers get this option but the consumer does not.

The retailer said in a matter of a week, once I specify which carat HOF center diamond I want, she will give me a range of options to look at - G/H + VS1/VS2/SI1/SI2 - so I can pick the one I like. Plus, she would ship it to me directly - I save 6% on the sales tax!!

She also said it would in fact be possible for them to order the setting only and have them put a loose diamond of my own choosing.

So this is working out great. Let me see exactly what I can get for my money with the various HOF options, and then see what a loose diamond of my choosing would get me. I feel a little bit better knowing that I can for sure get the color/clarity I want, given the premium I am paying to get the HOF name.

Thanks all again for confirming my suspicions about the lack of transparency on HOF's website - my money will go a long way now. I hope others might benefit from the conversation here.
 

lovedogs

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1468012909|4053322 said:
A short update: I spoke with a local retailer that carries HOF and is very willing to work with me. Interestingly, while for the life of me I cannot figure out why when purchasing HOF online I am not able to specify exactly the color/clarity diamond I want, the local retailer IS able to go to HOF and tell them more specifics about my diamond. I'm not sure why retailers get this option but the consumer does not.

The retailer said in a matter of a week, once I specify which carat HOF center diamond I want, she will give me a range of options to look at - G/H + VS1/VS2/SI1/SI2 - so I can pick the one I like. Plus, she would ship it to me directly - I save 6% on the sales tax!!

She also said it would in fact be possible for them to order the setting only and have them put a loose diamond of my own choosing.

So this is working out great. Let me see exactly what I can get for my money with the various HOF options, and then see what a loose diamond of my choosing would get me. I feel a little bit better knowing that I can for sure get the color/clarity I want, given the premium I am paying to get the HOF name.

Thanks all again for confirming my suspicions about the lack of transparency on HOF's website - my money will go a long way now. I hope others might benefit from the conversation here.
That is excellent news! I'm really happy that you may be able to both get what your GF wants AND know exactly what you're getting. That's the best possible outcome. I would suggest giving your local retailer some "ranges" of table%, depth%, etc in order to be sure you're staying within the "excellent cut" range. Or maybe just tell the retailer you only want to see AGS 000 stones (since those pass stringent tests for excellence in terms of cut). Obviously HOF is a premium cut, but even within that you want to make sure you're getting the MOST ideal cut for your $. Gypsy and others often post the "ranges" for ideal cut--but I don't know them off the top of my head.

OK, found Gypsy's often cited post about Round diamonds in terms of which ranges to stay in for the best chance at something great (see quote below). But you'll see she says near the bottom that if you don't want to go through all of the checking,etc, you can stick with AGS 000. So read through this and maybe set some guidelines for the retailer. That way you know that the things he/she brings in are all within a range of excellent performers.


Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.
 

arkieb1

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9,517
Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

WillyDiamond|1468012228|4053318 said:
OP
I know that some of the posters who have responded to you are recommending WF and BGD as an alternative to HOF, but if your GF wants HOF and you have the extra coin to spend, that seems to be the direction, unless when you give it to her and tell her its not a HOF, she won't have that disappointed look. That is your call. My vote is to get her what she wants, given you have the money.

I am no expert, and I ask other PSers for advice all the time. I have held in my hands many of the top diamonds from some of the PS vendors, and they are beautiful. However, I was in St. Maarten last year and went into a diamond store that was a HOF dealer. I held with tweezers a 3 carat G/VS2, of course the price was over a $100K, but I have to tell you that it was the most amazing diamond I have ever seen. It just blew me away. Best of luck in your search.
They sell HOF diamonds here and I have had the opposite experience, a number of them are no better than top cut hearts and arrows stones and many of them can be worse cuts because they allow a wider range for "top cut" stones.

Personally I would buy a diamond from Victor Canera, Crafted By Infinity or one of the main diamond dealers, save your money, go for a 1 carat because if that is what HOF is selling it will be sure to fit and just pay a premium for the setting.

Otherwise buy a diamond from Victor, Crafter By Infinity or one of the main diamond dealers the others have suggested to you and put it into a setting made by David Klass that is a copy of that ring. Or if you want something really out of this world, go for one of Victors stones and ask him to make a version of that setting which will be many times nicer again than that ring.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

That was my experience, too, that jewelry stores had individually graded HoF stones for sale. But I am not understanding at all why you would even consider the HoF diamond when you can get equal or better for so much less money. I already said that overpaying for the setting is reasonable since that is the one she wants and it might be risky to recreate that (although it definitely could be done). But no one is going to be able to look at that ring and be able to tell the difference in the two diamonds.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: Hearts on Fire - diff btwn "Signature" and "Sensational"

vasovist|1467993736|4053129 said:
diamondseeker, can't thank you enough for the specific recommendations.

Just so I have an idea of how much HOF is overcharging me: about what is the price difference for the highest quality color/clarity I can expect HOF to give me (G-VS1) and the lowest quality (H-SI1)?

I am completely on board with you though, the bigger issue is not so much the overcharging, it's the uncertainty of not even knowing what diamond I am paying for.
Well, let me say this. If there were two identical cars and one had a pricetag of $10k more, which would you choose? Because this is the same issue. We are talking about identical diamonds. There is zero reason to consider HoF when we know their prices are very inflated. You can buy the HoF setting she wants and provide the diamond, which is awesome!

In reference to your question in bold, I think you missed a whole post of mine, so I will repost. You'll see a G VS1 at least through H VS2. I recommend going with VS2 because you will save so much money buy buying one of the other hearts and arrows vendors' stones.

diamondseeker2006 said:
 
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