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Hearts On Fire Diamond

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richie5120

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
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34
I came across a store in the mall that is going out of business because they haven''t paid their taxes. Anyways huge sales going on. I need some advice please. I''ve been told never to buy from a mall but the price seems so good!

They have a 1.72 AGS cert round cut hearts on fire H in color SI1 for $23k, they guy said he''d sell it to me for $12k and knock off another 3% if I pay cash. I looked really hard and only saw 1 small inclusion with naked eye. I looked under the proportion scope and saw the inclusion but nothing else. The cert shows about 3 more inclusions that I couldn''t see.
I''m going to take my girlfriend with me tomorrow to look at it. What else should I be looking for? I saw the certificate it was laminated. Should I be excited that I''m getting such a great deal, or worried that it seems like such a great deal?

They had a sign that says all sales are final! This scares me a bit since they are going out of business and there will be no warranty on it. When I go to heartsonfire.com I can''t find this company as a authorized seller. Is this something I should be concerned about too?

TIA
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Date: 12/9/2006 11:59:35 PM
Author:richie5120
I came across a store in the mall that is going out of business because they haven''t paid their taxes. Anyways huge sales going on. I need some advice please. I''ve been told never to buy from a mall but the price seems so good!

They have a 1.72 AGS cert round cut hearts on fire H in color SI1 for $23k, they guy said he''d sell it to me for $12k and knock off another 3% if I pay cash. I looked really hard and only saw 1 small inclusion with naked eye. I looked under the proportion scope and saw the inclusion but nothing else. The cert shows about 3 more inclusions that I couldn''t see.
I''m going to take my girlfriend with me tomorrow to look at it. What else should I be looking for? I saw the certificate it was laminated. Should I be excited that I''m getting such a great deal, or worried that it seems like such a great deal?

They had a sign that says all sales are final! This scares me a bit since they are going out of business and there will be no warranty on it. When I go to heartsonfire.com I can''t find this company as a authorized seller. Is this something I should be concerned about too?

TIA
I would suggest you discuss this sale with an attorney.

It is very possible that the jeweler not only owes taxes, but also owes his suppliers. If his supplier filed a UCC 1 lien on that stone, it is very possible that it can''t be legally sold.

It would be prudent to do some due diligence here to make sure there are no financial statements by other creditors where the inventory of the store was pledged as collateral.

Depending on your state laws, that could have a serious affect on the ability to transfer ownership of the stone.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc
 

Kay

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
2,573
Is the diamond inscribed to show it is a HOF stone? If you decide to buy, I would pay with a credit card and not get greedy trying to save another 3% by paying cash. If you pay by CC you have some recourse to get the charge reversed if the stone turns out to not be what they say it is or if the store''s creditors do have liens on inventory.
 

decodelighted

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Date: 12/10/2006 12:28:15 AM
Author: RockDoc
I would suggest you discuss this sale with an attorney. It is very possible that the jeweler not only owes taxes, but also owes his suppliers. If his supplier filed a UCC 1 lien on that stone, it is very possible that it can''t be legally sold.
Rockdoc
This is an excellent idea. If its in effect a sale of "stolen property" - it can be seized from you & you have NO recourse especially if you paid CASH & don''t even have a credit card company to help your fight.

Something smells funny about this & I don''t think it''s worth the risk. Def not without consulting an attorney.
 

3hearts

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
188
One on my local jewelers stores that had been in business for 50 years was going out of business and he carried hearts on fire. When I asked if the hearts on fire were also on liquidation, he said "no" the stones were going back to hearts on fire and he could not discount the stones because hearts on fire dictates the prices.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 12/10/2006 12:56:11 AM
Author: DBM

Date: 12/10/2006 12:06:09 AM
Author: JulieN


Price is amazing.
i''m not so sure about that...
i take that back. i don''t know much about the going price for Hearts On Fire -- just the going price for an ideal cut H SI1...
 

richie5120

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
34
thanks for all your input. yes, the diamond is inscribed and thank you very much about the cc idea just in case they do come after me! I will definetly seek answers tomorrow.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Date: 12/10/2006 12:58:21 AM
Author: DBM


i take that back. i don''t know much about the going price for Hearts On Fire -- just the going price for an ideal cut H SI1...
you''re welcome
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,509
Date: 12/10/2006 12:44:56 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 12/10/2006 12:28:15 AM
Author: RockDoc
I would suggest you discuss this sale with an attorney. It is very possible that the jeweler not only owes taxes, but also owes his suppliers. If his supplier filed a UCC 1 lien on that stone, it is very possible that it can''t be legally sold.
Rockdoc
This is an excellent idea. If its in effect a sale of ''stolen property'' - it can be seized from you & you have NO recourse especially if you paid CASH & don''t even have a credit card company to help your fight.

Something smells funny about this & I don''t think it''s worth the risk. Def not without consulting an attorney.
Not all credit card companies are good about disputes. In working with many people who buy on the cruises some of the credit card companies are good and some really are not.

In my experience in dealing with these things I have learned that consumers can have trouble with Pay Pal and with Discover.

Amex is reasonably good, but it varies and Visa is pretty good, with Master Card being a little less cooperative than the other two.

Secondly, with a credit card TIME is also of the essence as well.

Just be cautious, do your due diligence, and check out the lien situation with the state and county.

Rockdoc
 

tmcnally

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
13
And p.s. all GooB sales are B.S. Every furniture store near me is currently GooB. Why sell it to you at a discount when he could just return it to the supplier for a full credit?
 

richie5120

Rough_Rock
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Nov 6, 2006
Messages
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Well I called HOF direct and sure enough they stated the company is liquidating and all their HOF are legit with no liens. Company owns all of them.

Today I looked at it again. Took GF with this time. I noticed it had a knot on the outter edge, SI1 under proportion scope. We turned the stone upside down and put it on white paper and noticed the knot with naked eye. I took my finger nail and it was catching on the spot I saw. The jeweler stated looks like it got chipped. He took stone to 2 other jewelers they said it's a natural inclusion and both said it's not a chip. 1 guy stated it did indeed break the surface while the other guy said it didn't!

It's a very nice price and the 1st jeweler said he'd come down even more on the 12k price. We told them we'd think about it. Wanted to report here to see what ideas everyone had. GF really wanted it until I noticed the knot/chip below the girdle. We are contemplating on purchasing with this information. If it's set could it stress stone and cause to crack?

Can they really grade it as a SI1 if you can see the inclusion on the stone with naked eye with stone being upside down? Is it a bad sign that the certificate date is 1999? We're guessing it was someone else's.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 12/11/2006 10:46:12 PM
Author: richie5120
Can they really grade it as a SI1 if you can see the inclusion on the stone with naked eye with stone being upside down?
of course. You can read this recent thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/visible-inclusion-on-vs2.54694/

naturals are on the surface, they don't break the surface.

If it is on the pavilion (that is what I think you mean by "below the girdle") it could be a chip I guess. That shouldn't need any special care when setting, though, and if you can't see it from the top it probably doesn't need a repolish or anything.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,108
Scary situation.

I'd buy this instead.
1.708 ct H SI1 AGS 0 cut ACA, $13,110 if you tell them you want the Pricescope discount.

link

It is new and on its way in so they don't have pics up yet.
 

richie5120

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
34
one of the jewelers said that HOF cut through the inclusion in the cutting process. would any diamond cutter ever do that?

also if my fingernail is getting caught is this a sign it broke the surface, or is it just a chip?
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 12/11/2006 11:08:41 PM
Author: richie5120
one of the jewelers said that HOF cut through the inclusion in the cutting process. would any diamond cutter ever do that?

also if my fingernail is getting caught is this a sign it broke the surface, or is it just a chip?
mm, I'm thinking, why not? if that is true, it would be a cavity (?)

Could you clarify where it is? Pavilion? confined to the girdle? goes from girdle to crown? girdle to pavilion?

breaking the surface means that it must also exist below the surface. otherwise, it is just on the surface.

how many jewelers did you see? your guy said it looks chipped, two other guys said it was a natural, and one guy says that it is an inclusion.
 

richie5120

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
34
it's on the pavilion right below the girdle but not part of it. it's a knot on the cert 1 guy claimed it was on the cert. it is below and on surface. 3 salespeople at the same place.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
27,108
Look at it under a stereo microscope.

Have a qualified independent appraiser evaluate it.
 

dtnyc

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
1,082
I didn''t know that they still left naturals on modern cut stones. I have one on my transitional brilliant- just below the girdle and from most of what I read, I thought they were very rare.
Have you been able to inspect the HOF inscription?
 

richie5120

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
34
yes, we saw the inscription. the dating cert was from 1999 so I''m not sure what you mean by modern.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 12/11/2006 11:24:10 PM
Author: richie5120
it's on the pavilion right below the girdle but not part of it. it's a knot on the cert 1 guy claimed it was on the cert. it is below and on surface.
If this is true, I am inclined to think that your stone is absolutely fine; the SI1 grading is accurate and you should have no problems with setting and wear.

Independent appraiser?
 

Anthony K

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
42
Hey listen I would call hearts on fire again and ask if the number on the diamond is legit, because I know for a fact that hearts on fire only uses knot free crystals for their diamonds, so if it has a knot that was cut over it then it is defiantly NOT hearts on fire.

Anthony
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
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Date: 12/11/2006 12:31:45 AM
Author: tmcnally
And p.s. all GooB sales are B.S. Every furniture store near me is currently GooB. Why sell it to you at a discount when he could just return it to the supplier for a full credit?
Because often wholesalers will not take back items for full credit, they want to be paid. This is especially true if the items have already been paid for and the wholesaler would have to come up with cash out of pocket to take it back.

If the diamond has been paid for HOF really has nothing to say about what it can be sold for as they can not hold the threat of throwing the retailer out of the ability to buy more over the retailer''s head.

Wink
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
7,366
P.S. Nothing in the above post has anything to do with the diamond in question, I have not looked at the specifics or the price. It is simply a comment on the GOB sales all being bogus. Many are, many are totally legit and a means for the retailer to raise money to pay taxes and other bills with things they alreay own.
 
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