Hearts On Fire Brand Stones - Tints of a Slight Yellow

[Gearhead]

Aloha!

I'm 99.5 % sure that I will purchase a H&A cut, AGS000 stone from a VERY VERY reputable jeweler that frequents this forum regularly. I've learned a lot as an observer to Pricescope threads the past month, but this is my first post. I'm getting engaged this February

Two weeks ago on a Friday evening after work, armed with the knowledge and solicited advice from my brother-in-law..."If I had to do it over again....eye clean SI1, E color and just under a carat".... I thought I would have an engagement ring in my pocket come the next Monday morning. To put it lightly, what the *%#$! was I thinking. I now have 26 days left until I meet my fiancee's parents to let them know my intentions and ask for their blessing so to speak. I would like to have the ring with me, and in my pocket by then. Still on my quest

and just a few days ago, I was finally able to finally see (for the first time) a branded stone. I compared the HoF stone to a non-branded GIA cert stone to see if there was a discernable difference. Both stones were VVS1, F color 1.14 ct +/ with excellent polish. I immediately noticed in order:

1. The non-branded stone was noticeably MORE brilliant/white throughout. Sparkle reflections more concentrated towards the center table area.
2. The HoF had more sparkles/fire/dispersion in the table area extending further out towards the edges

If I were to make a decision today I'd choose the non-branded stone because it looked more white and bright, and would cost 30% less. The extra sparkles just didn't do it for me Sat evening. I proceeded home and thought more research would be in order so I hopped on the usual sites, GOG, Blue Nile, SuperB Cert, Pricescope, NiceIce, ... only to be more confused! Tonight, I went back to the same jewelry shop (BTW, the are located across from Tiffany's in the same mall) and asked to look at another HoF stone in their inventory. She proceeded to bring out a .92, G VS2 and I noticed a slight yellow off white transparent color consistency. Then I asked her to bring out a standard GIA cert stone of the same Color, Size and Polish. Again, holding the two stones in front of me, and before she told me which stone was the HoF, I was able to pick out the HoF. I then asked for her to bring out an E color HoF which she promptly complied. The E HoF stone was noticeably more white/clear of color compared to the G HoF, of course that was to be expected. I asked her to then compare the E color HoF to the standard GIA cert. They were a bit reluctant, so I didn't push

In response to my question they suggested that I purchase a non branded, E color, VVS2

because that was the only way I was going to be happy. Will somebody please tell me if I know too much to be dangerous or am I just not getting "it". What ever "it" may be

They still couldn't explain to me why I saw the non branded stone as brighter other than, their store lights were not ideal and I was not observing them in natural sunlight/office setting.

I even asked another couple at the store if they can pick out the brighter stone - they also picked the non branded GIA cert stone. If HoF diamonds far exceed the avg mass marketed diamonds in polish, proportion, symmetry and to me they look a little yellow, then what can be said about the other branded stones (H&A, A Cut Above, EightStar, Lazar, SuperB Cert, etc,...). Perhaps the lighting was not ideal? I really would like to maximize brilliance, fire, dispersion and scintillation, but do not want to pay anmore $$$ than I need to get it.

Aloha,

-GH

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I skimmed this - but you know that it is possible the generic GIA was a unusual proportioned ideal (of the sort that I have defined - but then I am commonly thought to be quite mad

)
EG could have been 30 degree crown and 41.5 degree pavilion.
A very bright stone.
AND
You may have had a 35C 41.2P HOF that would not cut it as my ideal

 

[chris-uk04]

Just because it was a branded diamond doesn't mean it would be really white. I was looking at the "Leo" diamond and found they will go down to as far as SI2 and I. An I color stone is an I color stone whether there is a brand or not.
Secondly, who certifies the HoF diamond if anyone? A IGI or EGL "G" may be classified as an "H" if it was AGS or GIA certified.

 

[hoorray]

My understanding is that the HoF stones all have 55% tables, and more fire than white brilliance. It could be that your preference is for more white brilliance than fire. It also sounds as if you are pretty color sensitive (some people can see it more than others -- but it is mostly when comparing stones side by side than in a single stone.)

It sounds as if you are zeroing in on what you like. Maybe it's time to get on the phone with some of the online vendors and let them be your eyes to narrow it down to a couple of stones.

 

[valeria101]

HoF or not, teh "name" is not going to be printed on that diamond's table: and neither the "ideal proportions" not a brand in itself are perfectly synonimous with "great light return". How about Mara's stone? It seems that you were very lucky to find one of those off-beat (and off-brand) successes.

 

[Gearhead]

I was told HoF go through the hands of three gemologists as a form of QA before they hit the street. HoF are either GIA or AGS certified. Perhaps I’ll go back and ask to look at the certs to find out the pavilion and crown angles. So the continued education process continues *eager sigh*

Lop, I have already spoken to GOG and am leaning towards them. Actually, I went to see the HoF stone too see what all this talk about H&A cuts, symetry, ISee2, LScope, Bscope, Fire, etc,... is all about. I’ve never bought anything of this value before, both tangible and non-tangible. I’m really just trying to see real life samples to bolster my online education and limit post buyer remorse. Your comment about HoF is VERY interesting (that HoF = more fire than brilliance). If true, then perhaps the way I see it, Fire is secondary to Brilliance given one or the other. But on the other hand is it possible to get BOTH fire and brilliance or do we sacrifice one for the other. Or if we get both qualities then, is the sum of the visual output an average of the two?

Aloha,

gh

 

[Gearhead]

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On 1/7/2004 1:58:41 PM valeria101 wrote:

....How about Mara's stone? It seems that you were very lucky to find one of those off-beat (and off-brand) successes.

----------------

This forum is great. Thanks for all your help. I spent a few hours last night trying to search for an old post from Mara. Her post generally summed up her buying/decision process and how happy they were in comparison to a few other stone they bumped into after their purchase. I like to find that post and re-read it now that I'm "dangerously" educated. Not sure if that's a good thing or not

Aloha

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/7/2004 2:10:31 PM Gearhead wrote:

----------------
I spent a few hours last night trying to search for an old post from Mara.
Aloha----------------

No idea which is that: what I reffered to was a more recent discussion about the parameters of her stone. Since I have not spent all that much time around here, I have not followed the respective decision. However, I cited Mara's diamond as an example of a non H&A off the beaten track of the ideal proportions altogether (but shallow and large instead) with great light return. I surely understand why people like their diamonds to sparkle (no color in them, so what else? ), but I have much more trouble understanding why would one want to see H&As in their stones? If the H&A (pattern, brand and premiun) do not serve to guarantee light return, what are they good for than?

About fire and brilliace: if I understand it right, there should not be a trade off. Stones with great briliance and low fire (I guess the old cuts qualify for an exteme example) would need a flashlight beneath to alow their dispersive qualities to shine. And surely there are a few blessed pieces pegging the charts for both fire and brilliance. What I have yet to see is a diamond with great fire and low briliance (I guess brilaince can be somewhat lower than fire in a very fiery stone, but not too much lower). So there is no straightforward trade off to speak about. After all, BIC and FIC both cross the set of measurements producing top light return. I hope I am right with these.

There is one thing that puzzles me about those Hofs: how could you possibly see a yellow tint in an E stone? If everything is what it sounds, you were able to set apart a low E againt a high one over the counter of the store. This should be imposible: or you have a good reason to change your career to dimaond grader

Unless you get too see these stones (the non-branded vs Hof or H&A or whatever) outside the range of those store lights, chances are any diamond would look wort while...

 

[Gearhead]

----------------

There is one thing that puzzles me about those Hofs: how could you possibly see a yellow tint in an E stone? If everything is what it sounds, you were able to set apart a low E againt a high one over the counter of the store. This should be imposible: or you have a good reason to change your career to dimaond grader

----------------

Please forgive me here if I cross or incorrectly use terminology as newbies often do. I might of been observing an optical phenomena under the jewelry
store lights. Perhaps I should of said the E stone seemed darker. I'm going to research a few more threads in this regarding:

".....my diamond appeared white & bright in the store but dull when I got it outside....."

My goal here is to maximize brilliance, fire and scintillation without the WoF (wallet on fire)

branded or non-branded, heats & arrows present or not.

aloha!

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/7/2004 2:52:55 PM Gearhead wrote:

----------------

My goal here is to maximize brilliance, fire and scintillation without the WoF (wallet on fire)

branded or non-branded, heats & arrows present or not.

----------------

I nearly fell of the chair laughing

C'mon, "wallet on fire" surely is a tough brand to beat!

I know what you mean about that diamond: the sad truth is that jewelry store lights are not the best diamond viewing medium, quite on the contrary. What you have seen really means that the respective stone was not an exceptional cut at all and, that the Hofs did not do a great job to impress you either. It sounds like the branded stones had better light return and quite a bit of "fire" but were nothing to write home about.

I'd think F-G, VS2-SI and H&A if best of house cut is what you are after, and go on changing whatever C from there. No idea what your other priorities are. Otherwise, how about those ideal rounds at Whiteflash?

 

[valeria101]

Here's a sample:

ONE

 

[pyramid]

Gearhead
Here is a link I had saved in my favourites from 'that other site'

it is entitled ' '. I have not read it again so it may not be relevant here but I thought I would post it. I am just a consumer.

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/7/2004 7:38:54 PM pyramid wrote:


Gearhead
Here is a link I had saved in my favourites from 'that other site'
----------------

Link ?

 

[sfbayarea]

gearhead,

i would suggest that you take the stone outside of the jewelery store to look at the stone in different lighting. if you are in a mall, try looking at the diamonds under a skylight or go to a naturaly lit window. plus, if you want to compare the HOF with a nonbranded stone and you sense your jeweler is not more than happy to allow you to do so, go somewhere else! you are making a big purchase and you don't want to be wondering what the jeweler is trying to hide from you!

i have a HOF dream stone (so different than the round that i'm guessing you're considering) and in certain lighting it exhibits extreme fire while in other lighting it just knocks you out with its brilliance. i was not so impressed with the HOF fire (tiffany's lucida and many other stones i've come across are similiar) but my HOF stone definitely has a brilliance all its own. when we shopped for our stone we always took the diamond outside the store for different lighting and would put the diamonds under the table to compare. under the table, the HOF always sparkled even if there was very little light while other diamonds would just look dead.

 

[sfbayarea]

when you talk about seeing yellow in the diamond, make sure that it is in the actual body of the diamond because sometimes it is just a reflection of whatever is in the surroundings. my f color doesn't have any tinge of yellow and i'm pretty color sensitive (i could pick out the g and h HOF diamonds even when i wasn't told what they were).

and overall, just trust your own eyes. buy whatever stone is most appealing to you in person. it doesn't matter what it says on paper about your diamond because that's not what you or your fiancee are going to be staring at once its on her finger!

 

[pyramid]

Sorry



http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44222&highlight=trade%20brilliance%20for%20fire&pagenumber=1

 

[Kamuelamom]

Gearhead, welcome to Pricescope and good luck on your quest to find the right stone. I'm just here to say please make sure you pop into the Hawaii forum in Diamond Hangout. We take roll every now and then.

 

[Gearhead]

Val, first you tell me:

.......I'd think F-G, VS2-SI and H&A if best of house cut is what you are after, and go on changing whatever C from there.....

I must say you that you pretty much hit on the nail on the head with that post....but then your "ONE" turns out to be an E

Are you sure you didn't hit your head when you fell out of your chair

Kidding aside, I'm getting pretty close here. The only thing left really for me is to choose the ct. size. One of her good friends recently got engaged. I casually asked Lisa how she felt about the size of her friend's diamond. Her response was that she liked the way the stone complimented the size on her friends fingers and hand, but would rather have her stone a little bit smaller. What she said did not surprise me because her answer was perfectly aligned with her sensibility, practicality, and modesty. It turns out that her friend's stone is just under a Carat. So I've decided to "play it safe" and look for a 1.0 Ct, F-G, VS2 - SI. If in the end the stone is too big for her liking, I can always set the stone deep into the socket of another setting with slightly thicker prongs heads that wrap over the crown edge to make the stone look smaller.

~Aloha

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/8/2004 5:53:37 AM Gearhead wrote:

Val, first you tell me:

Are you sure you didn't hit your head when you fell out of your chair

Kidding aside, I'm getting pretty close here. If in the end the stone is too big for her liking, I can always set the stone deep into the socket of another setting with slightly thicker prongs heads that wrap over the crown edge to make the stone look smaller.
----------------

I'm fine, thanks

But the inventory at GOG seems to have been depleted over the Holidays (!) and that stone (E as it may be) was the closest to the above-stated principles. No idea if it makes a good buy to you, but it surely seems a hit. I surely hope you find what you want.

About hiding diamond (

) some say bezels do the trick. No idea if your girl is a bezel setting fan, but I am! Esp. those made of four parts seem particularly nice to me and a top cut stone will show its mettle very well indeed in them. Not sure what could be MORE understated than bezel setings, and... maybe this is my lucky day to convince someone to like what I do?

 

[Gearhead]

Val,

I think I found a stone. I started a new thread titled:

Gearhead Has Found a Stone - What Ya'll Think?

https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asptopicID=11695&sessionID=9B198DFD3A8642A6904B23B96B90CAF4


Please comment.

-gearHead