hearts & arrows

[brendan]

hi all a query from ireland, i have been trailing through all the internet sites in the past few weeks in search of the perfect diamond at the perfect price, you would be amazed at the prices the jewellers in ireland charge for your basic g/h s11 diamond!! i have finally hit upon two stones and i would be most appreciative if someone more experienced and unbiased could steer me in the right direction.
details are as follows
option 1
colur e
vs1
1.00 carat
depth 61.3%
table 57%
crown angle 34.1
pavillion angle 40.7
culet 0.3%
girdle medium faceted
fluresence none
gia cert
polish/symmetry both excellent
hearts & arrows
option 2
colour e
carat1.00
vs1
depth 62.7%
table 54%
CROWN ANGLE 35.2
PAVILLION ANGLE 40.7
CULET 0.8%
GIRDLE MEDIUM FACETED
POLISH/SYMMETRY BOTH EXCELLENT
NO FLURESENCE
gia cert/sarins
hearts & arrows

There is about $200 in the difference between the two which i presume is down to quality. i have found the advise and information on this site very insightful and helpful. any advise or suggestions would be most welcome

thanks

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

if you enter the #'s into HCA you will see I prefer the shallower crown larger diameter stone by a slight margin.

 

[brendan]

yes i have done this both come under the 2 mark one with TIC and the other FIC, (I DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM?) but which one would exhibit the best results do you think for fire,brillance light leakage AND ARE THEY TRUE HEARTS & ARROWS.

My hesitation is based on the fact that i am purchasing without first seeing the diamond

 

[Rhino]

It is impossible to assess whether they are true H&A stones as the variances in the major & minor facets can greatly affect optical symmetry. I would 2nd Gary's assessment with the shallower crown angle and if I had to choose between either of those it would be that. If you're to "show them the money" for an H&A, my response would be show me the proof. It's impossible to tell just from the proportions alone as there are many other factors that go into determining whether a diamond is a true H&A or not.




Regards,


Rhino

 

[brendan]

thanks how exactly do you think i should put it to the retailers what further information should i request?

also seperate question how do i calculate total depth for these two diamonds i know the sarins report shows it but how do they arrive at it and what is the a good total depth figure does it relate to the spread of the diamond

i know many questions but this stuff starts getting addictive!!

 

[Giangi]

I advise you to get pictures of the H&A images.

Total depth: Stone's height / (average diameter)
EG. 4.00mm / 6.30 = 63.5%

 

[Giangi]

Also, a good depth is between 59.5% and 62.5%. The best is 60-61.9%.

 

[magna2]

Brendan,

You've already received two great inputs from Garry and Jonathan - the first diamond is probably the better of the two.

Since you are buying over the internet, check to see if the seller is willing to send the two diamonds to a local independent appraiser. That way, you can schedule to see the two diamonds with your own set of eyes and also have the appraiser assess the quality of the diamonds for you so that you may make a more prudent decision.

 

[brendan]

thanks for the input everyone.

one extra problem with appraisal/buying on internet without seeing the stone is that im in ireland, the stones are in america, should i have a problem what recourse do i have other than the dealers goodwill,
which is why i am seeking independent expert advise from you guys to try eliminate any potential problems.

the gia cert and sarins report i was given do stack up quite well but as i have learned on this site they only give you half the picture.

i wonder if you any of guys with access to the necessary software could punch in the figures and see how each stone compares.

once again

thanks

 

[brendan]

ARE THESE VALID QUESTIONS TO ASK AND SHOULD I EXPECT A RESPONSE ON ALL OF THEM?

(1)in relation to the inclusions present in both stones can you determine if there any black inclusions present, if any of the inclusions present can or cannot be covered when the stone is set, are there any surface opens in the diamond if yes where are they positioned

(2)how would you class the luster of each stone is there any whiteness or cloudiness present i.e do they exhibit milkiness

(3)Can you produce Brilliant scope readings for each stone and how does each stone perform under the 5 light views.

(4) Can you give us the Megascope readings for each stone

(5) Can you produce actual Images from the hearts & arrows viewer of both stones so that we can see the internal cut of each stone. How well formed are the hearts & arrows images in each stone are they all the same size and symmetrical .

(6) Can you produce a Firescope, Lightscope, or idealscope images to show you how much of the light entering the diamond is being reflected back or being returned to your eye. Does each stone exhibit a good balance of dark reds and blacks.

I hope i dont seem to be too demanding in my requests for further information,I know that the Sarins results and GIA certs provided do stack up quite well but they can only tell you so much.

Thanks

 

[Giangi]

1) inclusions in a VS 1 stone are so small that it's almost insignificant where they are.
2)Yes, but they should not be cloudy...
3 to 6)Yes.
Now, that's a lot of questions... Try to split them in 2-3 calls and/or emails.

 

[brendan]

okay thanks for the advise, so the lab reports are the most important which one will show the optical symmetry the best? i will ask for that first

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Answer = none

Giangi do you have a reason for your commet on avoiding clouds on a VS1?

 

[brendan]

no i am really confused,none of them will show optical symmetry?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Labs do not know how to show optical symmetry - they know how to show facet alignment.
This is the historic development.
Sometimes the two are similar, sometimes they are not.
Buy an ideal-scope or ask the supplier to look and tell you what they see.
Copy and send them this chart

 

[brendan]

thanks all for the advise,

they came back and told me all the hearts & arrows on both are crisp and clear is this open to interpretation?

and they will send h&a viewer with diamond so i can view them myself

they have a seven day return policy

 

[sylvesterii]

seven days may be cutting it short in regards to time with the shipping to ireland. will they maybe ship to an appraiser so you can see both? H&A is somewhat up to be interpreted. Is the seller a reputable dealer that we may know of? If so, the opinion on this forum could be trusted as to the reliance on what "crisp" means...

 

[DP]

Hi Brendan,

It might help to know who the seller is - many of the better ones pop up here regularly. If it's anyone like Good Old Gold or Whiteflash then those worries are over - I bought a Cut Above H&A from Whiteflash and the symmetry was perfect. When I showed it to my local jeweller in England he'd never heard of Hearts and Arrows. Cut doesn't seem to be a big factor over here - for shame!

OK now you're comparing the prices of the diamonds themselves but don't forget there's the VAT to pay if you're shipping them home so make sure that's in your budget too.

 

[pyramid]

DP Is there not import tax of 5-6% also on diamonds shipped to the UK?

 

[brendan]

hi dp/pyramid

thanks for your input,

yes i am more than aware of the vat and customs issue vat 21% here!!

which is another reason why i have to get it right first

do you think if i send it back that the customs and vat will refund the money paid?imagine that would be next to impossible

dp interesting to hear your comments from england about the jeweller never hearing of hearts and arrows, i bet thats what will also be said in dublin, makes you think?