dieterbaylor
Rough_Rock
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Hearts and Arrow Diamond......Need Advice
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dieterbaylor
Rough_Rock
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i would never buy a H&A diamond without seeing a few things:
1) sarin report or better yet, report listing angles of every crown and pavilion facet
check this link out for more info http://www.goodoldgold.com/cutanalysis101.htm
2) Ideal-scope image
3) H&A images
There are a lot of phony H&A diamonds out there and if you're paying the premium, make sure you're getting the real deal.
Where are you looking to buy this stone from? Do they not have access to a sarin machine?
1) sarin report or better yet, report listing angles of every crown and pavilion facet
check this link out for more info http://www.goodoldgold.com/cutanalysis101.htm
2) Ideal-scope image
3) H&A images
There are a lot of phony H&A diamonds out there and if you're paying the premium, make sure you're getting the real deal.
Where are you looking to buy this stone from? Do they not have access to a sarin machine?
dieterbaylor
Rough_Rock
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Hi Dieter,
This stone is not a H&A-stone, because a true H&A at least has 'Very Good'-polish.
The fact of the laser-inscription is very deceptive. It is the seller who puts the inscription, and GIA just mentions the text of the inscription as one of the stone's characteristics.
In the same way, one cut put the inscription 'gold medal for cut in the year 2003' and GIA would just repeat this wording on its grading report.
As for the price, it is way too low for a true H&A. To know whether it is a great price for this stone, we need more information.
Live long,
Paul
This stone is not a H&A-stone, because a true H&A at least has 'Very Good'-polish.
The fact of the laser-inscription is very deceptive. It is the seller who puts the inscription, and GIA just mentions the text of the inscription as one of the stone's characteristics.
In the same way, one cut put the inscription 'gold medal for cut in the year 2003' and GIA would just repeat this wording on its grading report.
As for the price, it is way too low for a true H&A. To know whether it is a great price for this stone, we need more information.
Live long,
Paul
lovesparkles
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Mikesgirl
Shiny_Rock
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If the H & A inscription is the only proof it's H & A, that by itself would send up red flags for me. The price is very good - too good for a
D VVS2 1 carat H & A diamond (lowest would be about 8,500)- something isn't right here(If it seems too good to be true, it probably is). Have you seen the GIA cert? Is it GIA excellent or Very Good?
I assume this is a brick and mortar, not online. They certainly can get this stone to a Sarin machine if they don't have one. Or request an AGS cert. Or better yet, let them know you won't buy anything without all the numbers, and let them look for a better stone for you. Let them know what your parameters are.
Personally, I would (and did) go online, but if you must go to a Brick and Mortar, make sure you get all the info. If you're going to pay too much, at least get the most you can for your money.
D VVS2 1 carat H & A diamond (lowest would be about 8,500)- something isn't right here(If it seems too good to be true, it probably is). Have you seen the GIA cert? Is it GIA excellent or Very Good?
I assume this is a brick and mortar, not online. They certainly can get this stone to a Sarin machine if they don't have one. Or request an AGS cert. Or better yet, let them know you won't buy anything without all the numbers, and let them look for a better stone for you. Let them know what your parameters are.
Personally, I would (and did) go online, but if you must go to a Brick and Mortar, make sure you get all the info. If you're going to pay too much, at least get the most you can for your money.
dieterbaylor
Rough_Rock
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It is Good/Very Good. Are you sure (POSITIVE) that a true H&A is at least a Very Good/Very Good? A GIA Cert inscribed stating H&A could be misleading? Will a sarin report clear all these answers up for me? Seller stated this H&A stone is going for 7800 only because it has a small culet and has a Good/Very Good Polish/Symetry. If it is true, is is a good price. I will try to get a sarin report before I purchase, if I purchase. In other words, can this be an H&A stone and still get a bad sarin report, therefore making this a bad purchase? Thank you very much.
Mikesgirl
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The H&A standards require that the CUT GRADE be excellent or very good. A GIA Cert would show a cut grade. I do not know if a small culet would prevent it from being gradede excellent or very good by GIA. There should be an H&A certificate from Japan (my understanding is all H&A's are certed there)if it is a true H&A.
dieterbaylor:
The first red flag is the good, very good for polish and symmetry. A TRUE hearts and arrows diamond must have at minimum a GIA ex ex on polish and symmetry or an AGS000 (ideal symmetry, polish and cut). And that is just the beginning. To begin with, ask the vendor for a SARIN so that you have the pavilion and crown angles, and then ask for pictures of the H and A images. The diamond you have selected will be a really nice diamond but it does not meet the minumum requirements of a TRUE H and A diamond.
LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com
The first red flag is the good, very good for polish and symmetry. A TRUE hearts and arrows diamond must have at minimum a GIA ex ex on polish and symmetry or an AGS000 (ideal symmetry, polish and cut). And that is just the beginning. To begin with, ask the vendor for a SARIN so that you have the pavilion and crown angles, and then ask for pictures of the H and A images. The diamond you have selected will be a really nice diamond but it does not meet the minumum requirements of a TRUE H and A diamond.
LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com
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Sorry MG. Not true either. I know you are only trying to help and your heart is in the right place but this is misguided info dear.
There is one Japanese lab that does also state whether a stone is an H&A or not and there is a certain standard they follow (the lab is CGL and I have their chart somewhere) but most, if not all H&A's sold in the United States have not been sent first to Japan to be H&A certed.
The standard is set by the company doing the QA. There are companies calling diamonds H&A that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. I can point you to examples of stones we've called in for analysis being advertised by some websites as H&A that were I to link you, you wouldn't believe it.
If a company is advertising their diamond to be an H&A I say tell them to put their money where their mouth is. Let's see some proof as in photographic evidence and verification by a professional 2nd opinion.
My .02c
Rhino
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Since the others have already told you this is not the stone it was advertised to be...I'll pop in and say...if cut is your top priority..which it sounds like it is with the H&A--I would drop the clarity down a few notches, keep the D color if that is what you want, and get something like a D VS1/VS2 for the same money or less that IS a true H&A. If you are not set on D color, drop it to an E and you will save $$ as well. E VS1 is a very great combo...99% of the people out there wouldn't see a difference between D and E and the clarity no one sees anyway until around VS2/SI...so don't waste your money on that.
I ran a quick Pscope search by 'cut quality' and found over 15 separate stones that were all slightly over 1c, D, E or F color and VS1 or VS2 clarity for under $7700 from very reputable vendors. These stones are all under 2.0 on the HCA and most are TRUE confirmed H&A with AGS 0 standards. You have alot of options.
I'd pass on this stone and keep looking. Just because you have bought from a vendor before does not mean they are not trying to screw you. I've run into this myself...get the facts, cold hard numbers and then make your decisions. But I would pass on a H&A advertised stone with polish of only 'good'. You're making an important purchase here and spending alot of your hard-earned money, make it count.
Best of luck!!
I ran a quick Pscope search by 'cut quality' and found over 15 separate stones that were all slightly over 1c, D, E or F color and VS1 or VS2 clarity for under $7700 from very reputable vendors. These stones are all under 2.0 on the HCA and most are TRUE confirmed H&A with AGS 0 standards. You have alot of options.
I'd pass on this stone and keep looking. Just because you have bought from a vendor before does not mean they are not trying to screw you. I've run into this myself...get the facts, cold hard numbers and then make your decisions. But I would pass on a H&A advertised stone with polish of only 'good'. You're making an important purchase here and spending alot of your hard-earned money, make it count.
Best of luck!!
Mikesgirl
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Sorry Rhino. No intention to suggest any expertise. From this site, under "Grading Parameters For Hearts and Arrows Diamonds"
"The original home of hearts and arrows diamonds was Japan.
The Central Gem Laboratory (CGL), Tokyo, Japan sets standards and parameters for hearts and arrows.
Presently, there are no laboratories in the USA that grade hearts and arrows.
THERE ARE NO VARIATIONS ON THE TRUE PATTERNS."
NO HEARTS AND ARROWS STAMP IS ISSUED IF: (among other things)
. . .The CUT GRADE is not "excellent" or "very good".
I should have directed the writer to that part of this site.
My bad on the "GIA GRADE". I was thinking of EGL's comments on cut quality. You are absolutely right, and may be about the other stuff as well - I was basing my understanding of the above H&A information that comes up under "pricescope" if you select H&A as part of the search when looking for a stone. So are you saying, Rhino, that there are H&A stones that are certified here in the US and they don't necessarily require a cut grade of excellent or very good, as stated on this site? Just goes to show how "a little learning is a dangerous thing". If I misunderstood I apologize to both of you, Dieterbaylor and Rhino.
"The original home of hearts and arrows diamonds was Japan.
The Central Gem Laboratory (CGL), Tokyo, Japan sets standards and parameters for hearts and arrows.
Presently, there are no laboratories in the USA that grade hearts and arrows.
THERE ARE NO VARIATIONS ON THE TRUE PATTERNS."
NO HEARTS AND ARROWS STAMP IS ISSUED IF: (among other things)
. . .The CUT GRADE is not "excellent" or "very good".
I should have directed the writer to that part of this site.
My bad on the "GIA GRADE". I was thinking of EGL's comments on cut quality. You are absolutely right, and may be about the other stuff as well - I was basing my understanding of the above H&A information that comes up under "pricescope" if you select H&A as part of the search when looking for a stone. So are you saying, Rhino, that there are H&A stones that are certified here in the US and they don't necessarily require a cut grade of excellent or very good, as stated on this site? Just goes to show how "a little learning is a dangerous thing". If I misunderstood I apologize to both of you, Dieterbaylor and Rhino.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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If I recall correctly, there is no way to 'certify' a H&A stone in the US. Anyone can inscribe that on their girdle, have it added to the cert with it's girdle notation, and sell it as an H&A stone, which is maybe what this original poster is seeing with their stone.
The only way to verify true H&A is to view the Hearts and Arrows under a viewer and then would suggest having them confirmed by an appraiser. Even just a random consumer viewing H&A under a viewer does not guarantee it's a TRUE H&A...as most of us regular consumers can't tell the differences between sloppy H&A and true H&A.
The only way to verify true H&A is to view the Hearts and Arrows under a viewer and then would suggest having them confirmed by an appraiser. Even just a random consumer viewing H&A under a viewer does not guarantee it's a TRUE H&A...as most of us regular consumers can't tell the differences between sloppy H&A and true H&A.
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robbe
Shiny_Rock
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hi,
the quality of polish cannot affect h&a, only proportions and symetry are responsible for h&a. having said that, most h&a diamonds have no defects in polish however this means one cannot say that the above mentioned diamond is not h&a because of 'good' polish (sorry paul but here you're wrong!). first, one has to know why this stone was graded 'good'. i have seen h&a diamonds, with or without laser inscription refering to h&a that were taken out of their setting, sent to a lab for grading and received 'good' for polish because there were some tiny scratches on the table surface. these scratches were created during the few years when that stone was set in a ring...nevertheless, this stone was still an h&a...with 'good' polish, that's all.
on the subject of japanese labs: almost all japanese labs (130 more or less!!!)do mention h&a when applicable. considering that h&a was discovered in japan over 25 years ago + every diamond in japan mut be certified (or else they won't sell) + japanese rules for h&a are very strict (too strict), you can be sure there were millions of nice h&a's overthere even before the first h&a was for sale in the usa...so yes, from time to time you could buy an h&a that originates from japan & most of the time these will be the better ones. (if you need to be in japan, do yourself a favor & buy overthere, slow economics in japan = good bargains!!!) robbe
the quality of polish cannot affect h&a, only proportions and symetry are responsible for h&a. having said that, most h&a diamonds have no defects in polish however this means one cannot say that the above mentioned diamond is not h&a because of 'good' polish (sorry paul but here you're wrong!). first, one has to know why this stone was graded 'good'. i have seen h&a diamonds, with or without laser inscription refering to h&a that were taken out of their setting, sent to a lab for grading and received 'good' for polish because there were some tiny scratches on the table surface. these scratches were created during the few years when that stone was set in a ring...nevertheless, this stone was still an h&a...with 'good' polish, that's all.
on the subject of japanese labs: almost all japanese labs (130 more or less!!!)do mention h&a when applicable. considering that h&a was discovered in japan over 25 years ago + every diamond in japan mut be certified (or else they won't sell) + japanese rules for h&a are very strict (too strict), you can be sure there were millions of nice h&a's overthere even before the first h&a was for sale in the usa...so yes, from time to time you could buy an h&a that originates from japan & most of the time these will be the better ones. (if you need to be in japan, do yourself a favor & buy overthere, slow economics in japan = good bargains!!!) robbe
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