Healthier Lifestyle Thread 7th July till 13th July

[Lorelei]

Happy new week!

The weather here CONTINUES to be pants, Dee, I might just take you up on your kind offer! The skies are full of dark grey threatening clouds, with intermittent bursts of rain....So much for summer.

I wanted to do a reminder about the benefits we are all getting from our workouts, especially the ones we can''t see. Although seeing the physical outward changes is great and very encouraging, it is also good to remember that we are increasing our cardiovascular health -
strengthening bones and joints
lowering blood pressure
blasting cholesterol
increasing mobility
decreasing the chance of certain diseases
And we are also helping to reduce stress which is of huge benefit.


So do bear in mind if the outward physical changes aren''t happening as fast as you would wish, that you are still benefiting from your efforts in other ways.

Keep up the excellent work everyone

 

[perry]

Lorelei:

This is a wonderful new forum (I missed when it was created), and a great thread idea.

I hope you and the others don''t mind if I join. My goal in this is several fold - and the most important one is that I need you all to bug me and keep me on track.

Overall I have to get my diet under control, exercise more, and need to loose about 90 Lb, and I have to get my diet under control.

Biggest health issues: Type II diabetes - which is not currently well controlled, and lots and lots of food allergies so that I can''t eat a lot of things - and have to home cook almost all of my food.

I''m also mentally burned out from work and other family issues (parent care).

I have created a Daily task list for the week. Key goal this week is just start doing some of the very basic things I need to do every day (like check my weight, some walking, and take my vitamins and meds on schedule). I kinda let life take over to where I let a lot of things slip like that.

It takes 3 weeks to develop a habit. As I get my initial ones down I will add more task to the list. Within several months I should be well on my way with a new lifestyle that will get me where I want to get to - both physically and mentally.

So I''ll play, and will all of you keep bugging me about where I am with my task each day.

Perry

 

[Miscka]

Lorelei-thanks for the great reminders.

Happy Belated Anniversary, Rod!!

I tried my best over this holiday weekend, but it is time to kick myself back into gear!! I am going to work on cutting back on my wheat-based carbs, as well as processed sugar. When I was on my allergy diet, I was not allowed any sugar and it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. So I am going to try to go back to that. I am going to concentrate on getting good protein in, as well as fruits and veggies.

Hope everyone is doing well!

ETA: I forgot to mention, I test drove one of the bikes from that company I linked last week. I LOVED it!!! I had not been on a bike in AGES, so I was really nervous. But it had pedal brakes like my bike when I was a kid, I never learned hand brakes! LOL! But it was really fun and I think would be great exercise. So I am saving up my pennies!

 

[KimberlyH]

Morning All!

We''re back from Portland and settling back into routine. We had a wonderful trip ate some delicious food at a newly opened restaurant, did lots of sightseeing, lots of walking, and a bit of shopping. I gained back 1.2 pounds while gone, but so not a big deal, I''m back on track as of today.

Happy belated anniversary to you and Charlie, Rod.

Miska, what a fun thing to save your pennies for. I remember back-peddle-breaks!

Welcome, Perry. This is a really great thread with a group of amazingly inspirational people that certainly keep me going. It''s nice to have you join us. Your goals for the week sound attainable, and healthy! We''re here cheering you on.

Thanks for the reminder of all the good stuff we do by exercising and eating right that we can''t see, Lorelei.

Today may be a good one for an evening walk as I''m off to work and will be kidsitting this afternoon, it''s a typical Monday. Have a great day, everyone!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Happy Monday all!

I was going to do an hour on the bike this morning (picked up more trashy vampire novels at the bookstore yesterday!) and then come into my office for a few hours but I ended up coming in early so I'll work out this afternoon. I think I overdid the treadmill the other day with such a high incline for so long and the back of my knees were just KILLING me yesterday. They fell a lot better today but I'm not going to chance it.

Lorelei, thank you for the great opener! I certainly focus on the outward rewards from a healthier lifestyle, but you are so right about the rewards that we can't see! As for the pant's weather, let me know when you're coming and I'll prepare the 4th floor for you (but be warned, The Demon and Oscar like to creep up there in the early morning when we have people over just to make sure everything's OK, so you might have two furry friends in bed with you!)

Perry, this thread will give you a lot of support and encouragement and great tips too. Plus, I find it keeps me more accountable--if I *say* on here that I'm going to do something, I find I'm more likely to actually do it. Welcome!

Miscka, I'm going to live vicariously through you and your fun bike experience! I actually never learned to ride a bike (can you belive that?!?) and at 37 I think I'm too old to try (6 year olds don't really think through all the bad things that can happen if you wreck it, but that would be ALL I could think about LOL!).

Kimi, I'm glad you and J. had a good trip! I've never been to Portland but I hear it is a wonderful city.

 

[Lorelei]

Perry, we would be DELIGHTED to have you join us, welcome aboard!!!

Try to check in each day, and we will always be here to encourage and help you!

Congrats on taking the first step!!!! One of the things we find helpful wherever we are with our plans, is to drink enough water daily. This helps in so many ways, so try to aim for 2 litres daily if possible. You may find that it takes you a few days to adjust with extra visits to the lavatory, but it does calm down!

What are your food allergies Perry? Maybe we can suggest some meal ideas that might work for you.

 

[Miscka]

Perry-I did a food allergy diet awhile back...so I had to work around all the common allergens. Hopefully I can help think of things you can try!

Dee*Jay-I can totally believe it! In fact, I never wanted to learn. My dad bribed me with a hamster!! I just never had much of an interest. And then everyone had bikes with hand brakes and gears, and it just intimidated me so I dropped it. My old bike was pink with a purple polka-dotted seat. I guess I haven''t grown up much!

 

[phoenixgirl]

Lorelei, thank you for the reminder about the benefits we can't see. Those are the ones that matter most.

Perry, welcome! I can't say I have had as much to deal with on a daily basis as it sounds like you do, but I have absolutely found getting in shape to decrease my stress levels and increase my energy levels. Just like you plan to, I made one or two changes at a time . . . working out with weights three times a week for a month or two, then adding walking, then running instead of walking after six months, etc. I've also stopped drinking soda, eat more veggies and fruits, eat more whole wheat grains, and eat less red meat. I'm not sure what restrictions you have with your allergies but maybe a nutritionist can help with good ways to eat well? Good luck to you as you make those little changes in your daily life that will add up to big changes in your quality of life!

Mondays seem to be the hardest (following the unexpected loss of my dad last month, and I'm a teacher on summer vacation so there's very little I have to do right now). I've accomplished very little today other than dropping off my diamond wedding band because a couple of the diamonds were loose (see, I'm keeping my priorities straight!). I will do a Firm video shortly and then possibly grocery shopping, but I might save that for tomorrow. We have the bare necessities, so I want to plan out some healthy meals before going, and I'm not sure I can work out and figure all that out before DH comes home. OK, that's what I'm doing -- grocery shopping tomorrow. It's also good to have a reason to leave the house each day.

Oh, speaking of bikes, I have been encouraging DH to get another new bike. I'm an idiot! But he races single-speed (mountain bike) most often, and his single-speed was converted from a geared bike, and he's had two mechanical malfunctions during races due to the converted parts. I should definitely be due for some new diamonds after I also encouraged him to get a cyclocross bike recently, and he traded up his road bike, and he made a Frankenmountainbike out of parts he got from eBay.

He was cutely asking about details on the drop earring idea I had for the extra diamonds I'm going to remove from the tennis bracelet I inherited recently, so hopefully he can take that idea and run with it. Since I picked out my studs and pendant it would be fun to get something that's more of a surprise.

 

[appletini]

I went to my TBT class today and had a great workout it was tough, I also have my PT tomorrow since I have a conflict on Thursday. The Boot Camp instructor was trying to recruit me again, I feel like he''s not going to give up easily since he seems to have an answer ready for each of my "cons."

DJ, I think you need to invest in some training-wheels, I just cannot believe that.

Perry, they say its 80% nutrition and 20% exercise, so for you try to start with healthy eating habits (small frequent meals/snacks works well for me), and for your physical health just try to start by walking 30 minutes a day, once you get going its easier to keep it up and its not difficult (unless its super hot outside).

 

[Love2Travel]

Today is the start of my 2nd month or riding my bicycle into work everyday. So far the rain gods are being nice to me Only one month in and I can already tell a difference physically (in mirror) and mentally. I think I am going to purhcase running sneakers this coming up weekend. My g/f has also started hitting the gym everyday (start of her 2nd month as well). Neither of us are over weight. We just want to be more fit and "tight". We have been eating VERY healthy this past month as well. Per my past eating habits, that''s a huge change. lol

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to the thread L2T, and well done on the bike riding!

 

[somethingshiny]

Welcome, Perry and L2T! This is a great place for inspiration, accountability, tips, and just having someone on your side.

Sorry I haven''t posted much lately. I hope everything is going well for all of you!

Update: Somehow lost 8 lbs. Don''t know when or how because I don''t weigh myself often. Swam for 30 minutes hard yesterday, didn''t even get winded. Wore a swimsuit yesterday without a coverup or towel. (that would account for the sunburn.) Walked miles and miles over the last few days and never got sore or tired! Realized after I''d done it, that I carried my 30lb son for over a mile.

(I think I count on Lorelei''s opener this week!)

 

[Skippy123]

Welcome Perry and Loves2Travel!!! Perry, I agree with Apple 80% of working on health is eating healthy and the rest exercise! L2T, I love to travel too!hehe

 

[steph72276]

Hi, guys and happy new week. I have pretty much been on track this weekend except for a Mexican meal out yesterday, but I prob. only ate less than half b/c it wasn't that great and I didn't want to waste calories on it. I did lots of working out though. 2 walk/run session, one lasting over an hour, and lots of swimming. When Adam gets to go with us on the weekends and can help out w/ Andrew, I use it as an opportunity to do laps which is an excellent workout. I do have cookies in the oven right now that Andrew wanted to make with me--homemade chocolate chip cookies with M&M's added in. Yum! But I will limit to 1 cookie. Anyway, hope everyone is doing well!

 

[Skippy123]

Hi all! The spinach lasagna was a hit since it had yellow and green onions, garlic and parsley for added flavor!!! I am taking the day off from working out. I also am going to make another spinach lasagna this week. hehe

Hope everyone is having a wonderful Monday!!!

Lorelei, great opener! Sorry the weather is pants! I hope the sun comes out!

Marcy, my mom is doing great; I am so proud of her working hard with the physical therapists. Thanks for asking and glad you are home! Can''t wait to see pics!

Rod, praying for your dear brother!

Miscka, I bought a new bike recently too and a good bike makes a world of difference! Glad you are saving up your pennies; another good way to save money is by buying the 07 models.

Kimi, fun for Portland, I have never been there! Sounds like a great trip!

Hey Dee, hope the knees get better! Good for the workouts!

Apple, yay for TBT!

PHX, hello! When do you leave for Paris?

Somethingshiney, woooo hoooo for losing 8 lbs

Steph, your workouts are great! Yum, cookies!!!

 

[choro72]

somethingshiney, woo hoo! You could kick some serious butt with your endurance!
perry, welcome

I''m pretty new myself. My cousin was diagnosed with type II diabetes as well, and it was so bad that the doctor told him 90% he is going to need medical treatment/surgery or something (I''m not too sure), and that there was only a 10% chance that he can get his body function in control with pure lifestyle changes.
Well, my stubborn cousin refused to get any painful treatment, so he cut off sweets, soda, red meat, started eating tons of veggies, beans, tofu, exercising, portion control...And he did it! He is half the size he was back then.
So I''m sure you can do it too! Here''s a cheering toast for you!

Last week I feel down spectacularly and embarrassingly

. Now my knee and hand is butchered with the "fake skin" band aid. Does anyone know if it''s safe to swim? Or should I wait until my skin regrow? It''s much too hot to run.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Just a quick fly-by before I go off and run a ton of searches for a new client.

Did an hour on the STATIONARY (

) bike today with a new vamp novel. I'm going to be really sad when I get through the whole series!! My knees are feeling pretty much better, but the left on is still a tiny bit sore. I might have also really found a trainer (the first one never called me back, and the second one only works with people at her gym, but this one was actually in my gym tonight with someone that I see there frequently, so there's hope!). I am going to be out of town part of this week and next, but hopefully the week after I can get the ball rolling.

Appletini, LOL on the training wheels! I would be *absolutely mortified*!!! One of my commercial clients has a storefornt that we rented out to a scooter dealer. I just went in there to look around now that the place is all done and the inventory is in, and my client saw me there. He marched right in and and said to the guy who's renting the place that if he even CONSIDERED selling me any scooter he would suddently find his inventory in the back alley and himself padlocked out of the property because I wouldn't survive on the City streets for 5 minutes on a scooter and he wasn't going to be responsible for me being splattered all over Milwaukee Avenue. I think the tenant believed him because now he keeps glancing at the door to make sure the owner doesn't see me in there when I stop to say hi.

Gotta go take the monsters out for a W-A-L-K.

 

[perry]

I'm short on time (typical during the week - and I owe Karen an answer on another forum that I won't get to tonight too).

Thanks to (and lets hope I get everyone):

KimberlyH

Dee*Jay (and yes, I need the accountability thing - one of the reasons I posted).

Lorelei (food allergy list below)

Miscka (Lets see how you and Lorelei do with my list)

phoenixgirl (I'm on a heavy red meat diet - I'm awaiting your options)

appletini (I think I need more exercise due to some other issues than just 20%)

somethingshiny

Skippy (could it be skip to my lou, my darling?)

Choro72 (I edited you in as you posted while I was writing; and yeh I know that I have to get my diabetes under control)

Hope I did not miss anyone:

I completed my checklist today - and found I needed to better specify some things (like all the Meds that fall into the "take meds" line).

Food allergy list (this is probably not complete - but list most of them).

All Citrus fruit and products.

All Dairy products (including whey, etc). This includes goat as well as cow.

All Beans and Peas (and I am sure anything else in that plant family).

All members of Nightshade plant family (Potatoes, Tomatoes, Bell Peppers, Red Pepper, Paprika, Goji Berry, etc - and the "etc" is a long list)

Banana

Lettuce

Mushrooms

Pineapple

Soy (and soy oil)

Canola (Rapeseed and Canola Oil)

Wheat

Rye

Sesame

Brewers Yeast

Chicken

Eggs

Peanuts

Cashews


Are we having fun yet?


A few guidelines:

1) Many commercially processed foods almost always contain soy in some form or other, and soy and canola oils are the cheapest vegetable oils on the market and used almost everywhere.

2) Beware of anything that says "natural flavors" or "spices" on the ingredient list. These usually contain something I cannot handle.

4) I have to home cook the vast majority of what I eat due to all the modern additives (I also make home made beef jerky for traveling). This leads lots of time for other activities as everyone knows that cooking is a snap.

Anyway... I'll let you folks see what you can come up with for meal plans of readily available stuff while avoiding all that stuff - and It'd be nice if I could prepare a meal quickly too. One Hint: One commercially processed food that I can eat is Frito's as it is corn fried in corn oil. Marvelously nutritious too,

Oh, and don't be offended if I tell you one of your foods that was not on the list above doesn't work as I don't promise that the above list is complete - or that I would have to research what plant group the food is in (I do that a lot).

Thanks in advance.

Perry

 

[Skippy123]

Oh gosh Perry, that is a long list! What about beans, they are so good for you and filling! I love some many beans and what about rice? Have you seen a registered dietician?

 

[Rod]

I can''t believe it''s already 11 PM and I''m just now getting around to saying hey.........So, at least for tonight, I won''t have the time to write everyone. It was a loooooooong day. I didn''t sleep too well last night. It will take me some time to get used to a weekly vs. weekend schedule. I guess because I slept in yesterday, I just wasn''t ready to go to bed earlier and then I just tossed and turned. And, I keep waking up at 5:30 AM worrying that I''ve missed the alarm and am late for work, so I miss my last hour of sleep too. Hopefully, I''ll get my sleep rhythm''s regulated again soon.

Work was OK. I''m still in learning mode and hope I''m doing a good job. I have fallen in love with the chicken salad they offer in the building''s deli. It''s homemade and oh so good. I know I should try something else, but it''s just that good. I left work around 5:30 (got there at 7:45 - yuck) and headed to the gym. Monday night at the gym is notoriously crowded. I guess people are trying to work off the sins of the weekend. But, tonight it was absolute bedlam. We''d had a thunderstorm around 5 PM and I guess all the people who might have done outdoor activities wound up at the gym. I think all of Tampa wound up at the gym. Still, I managed to get in a very productive 2.5 hour workout, but was quite exhausted at the end. I wound up having a whey protein shake and a Lean Cuisine for dinner. It''s just not convenient to have to worry about cooking much when you don''t get home until 9 PM.

Tomorrow is not a workout day and I''ll be able to meet Charlie at favorite sushi spot #2 for dinner.

Oh, my father was released from the hospital today and doing much better. But, we did learn that he did have a mini-stroke in addition to the ear infection. Fortunately, the mini-stroke didn''t do any damage and all the heart tests he had showed a remarkably strong heart for an 87 year old man. Thanks for the well wishes for both my brother and father.

Alwasy a winning opener Lorelei!! I do often think of the diseases I''m hopefully avoiding and having watched my mother become less and less mobile throughout her life, I know I''m not going to follow in her footsteps since I plan to continue working my muscles until the day they roll me out......LOL

Welcome to our new members perry and Love3Travel! I hope you find the encouragement and advice here will really help you stay focused and committed to your goals and I hope you find the caring and friendships we have will enrich your lives as much as they mine!

I''m glad you enjoyed Portland Kimberly and thanks for the anniversary wishes.

Thanks to you too Miscka! Good luck saving your pennies for that new bike!

As always Skippy, your extra thoughts for my brother are oh so appreciated!

Again, sorry for not addressing everyone today, but it''s late and I must head to bed now.

Sweet dreams everyone!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Wow Perry... that''s quite a list. It might be helpful if you mentioned a couple of things that you *can* eat (other than Fritos!) so we can think from that perspective. The HH is mulling things over and hopefully he''ll have some ideas for you.

What about fish and seafood BTW? And other grains like hominy (at list I *think* that''s a grain ???).

 

[Skippy123]

Rod, sweet dreams; yay for your dad leaving the hospital!!!!! I hope you sleep well! Dee glad you are staying put. hehe

 

[marcy]

Hi everyone! Happy new week. I can’t believe it’s the second week of July. The last time I was at work was the end of June. I hope you had a great day.
The scream you heard from the Rocky Mountains this morning was me – I gained 3 pounds on vacation but I know most of it is water weight.

I did not drink a lot of water last week – when you are 3 to 4 hours away from a little HLT’ers room you don’t drink your usual 8 plus glasses of water. I am sure tomorrow’s results will be better.
Lorelei, your openings always seem to hit it precisely on the mark for me. I was just thinking last night how different things are for me now. On our vacation I climbed in and out of a big truck, climbed the steps of the 5th wheeler, climbed in to a helicopter, walked in and out of shops, visitor’s centers and walked up and down some walks to take photos. I even made sure we walked around the camp grounds at night. I am so much healthier, limber now and my endurance is a complete surprise and delight to me. Woo hoo for healthier living!
Perry, welcome to the HLT thread. I have lots of food allergies too and just try to keep my food very plain, very simple and in my limited food groups. It is a challenge! Creating lists and finding things to work towards is a great start! I’ll help in any way I can. Your food list is pretty similar to mine. Have you tried any medicine for it? I took gastrachrome for years and it seemed to help. Some foods I can tolerate once about every 3 months, some I can never eat and some I can eat once a week; it just varies. I know what you mean about finding help – all the nutritionists or dieticians they sent me to were no help AT ALL.
Miscka, yay for finding a bike you like as well as a way to burn calories at the same time.
Kimi, I am glad you had a great trip to Portland. I am back on track today as well. I plan to be good this week – because Saturday we are going to one of our favorite Italian restaurants and I know I’ll exceed those 1200 calories that day (maybe even that meal LOL)!
DeeJay, rats for your knees bothering you but that’s good news they feel better today.
Phoenix Girl, good idea to get your rings fixed before loosing a diamond. I am very low on food too; I think I’ve got one more supper and that’s about it. What idea do you have for drop diamond earrings? They sound fun.
Appletini, yay for a great work out today. I certainly agree with your 80 / 20 view. I find I can do a bit more exercise all the time but for me it’s been watching the food I eat.
Love2Travel, it’s great to see you here. What a great idea to ride your bike to work. That’s wonderful you can see results in a month.
Somethingshiny, congratulations on loosing 8 pounds. That is awesome.
Steph, your cookies sound divine. One cookie is well worth the treat. I will probably make some cookies for work next week and eat one when they are warm.
Skippy, I am sure everyone loved your lasagna. That’s great your mom is working hard with her physical therapist, just trying is ½ the battle.
Chrono, ouch! You poor girl. I hope you are okay. Feel better soon. Yay for your cousin changing his life so dramatically.
Rod, glad to hear your dad is out of the hospital and in good health for his age. Woo hoo for a great workout at the crowded gym tonight.
Take care!
Marcy

 

[appletini]

I saw this article about our body clock that I thought was interesting...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/144396?GT1=43001

 

[Miscka]

Wow, Perry!!! So can you have olive oil, seafood, or rice? Here is a sample day from my diet:

Breakfast-rice cereal with rice milk and dried strawberries.
Snack:Almonds
Lunch:Carrots with hummus (can you have chickpeas or are they the same as beans and other peas?), apple, and either rice cakes or these Krinkle Krisp things from Whole Foods (have potatoes in them though)
Dinner:Rice with Salmon, or rice with asparagus, or some other kind of fish.

What about Almond butter? I am going to try to think of some more things...

 

[Julianna]

HEY LOR! I''m back...ish!

Geez I suck at consistency. Ah well.

And would you look at this shiny new category "Healthier Lifestyle". Fabulous.

Thanks for the list o'' benefits. I never see much change on the outside of my body so it''s good to remember that all sorts of nifty things are happening inside, where I can''t see them.

These days I get up every weekday morning at 4:40 and head out to the gym. I''m on a stairmaster/treadmill schedule; three days of stairmaster and two of running. It was too hard to get up three times a week to go to the gym, so I decided it''d be easier to get up all five.

Twisted logic, workable logic.

ss: I haven''t been on PS for a while, and it sounds like you''re doing great! Especially the bit about the swimsuit sans coverup and the mysterious 8 lb loss.

Rod: You''ve managed to become gainfully employed since I was last here. Congratulations! Glad the deli has passable food. My company''s cafeteria food sometimes can''t even be categorized as food.

Hey marcyc!: I think I heard that scream here in MD, glad to have an explanation.

Best of luck losing that stupid 3 lbs.

Hope I manage to drop in more often...

Julianna

 

[Lorelei]

THERE you are Miss Julianna - I missed you verrry much!!!

I can''t get on with those Stairmaster things, so good for you!! Gives you some variety from the Treddy O'' Doom!!! * snerk* to use a Julianna -ism!

 

[Lorelei]

Perry,

I just thought of one of my vegetable dishes which is really easy and healthy. It freezes and reheats well, and keeps also in the fridge for 2 or 3 days and improves on keeping. You don't have to follow a recipe as such or exact measurements, but you can adapt it to suit you. I don't know if I list something that you might be allergic to but this is the general idea.

You will need -

onions - 2, peeled and quartered, or to taste.
zucchini - sliced
baby sweetcorn
eggplant - prepared and sliced
garlic cloves to taste, peeled and chopped/ crushed etc
add any other vegetables that you might like or can eat.

Once you have prepared the vegetables, place into roasting tin or foil container etc, drizzle with olive or corn oil and mix to cover veggies. Place into preheated hot oven ( roasting temp) and cook uncovered for about an hour, or until veg are tender and brown. To serve, sprinkle with sea salt and black pepper.

I normally use peppers and mushrooms in this, but it is a good method as it is so easy and you can adapt the veggies to whatever you like or is in season/ available.

Perry, I am so sorry about your allergies, that must really be challenging trying to come up with menus and meals.

 

[Julianna]

Ah, both the Treddy O'' Doom and the Stairmaster are my nemeses!! But I shan''t let them get the better of me!!! ONWARD AND UPWARD, SOLDIERS!! *ahem*

Walking up stairs at a constant speed for 25 minutes can only be described as riveting.

The only cool part is when I''m done and it tells me I walked up 103 flights or some such. That''s pretty neat, it makes me think of any number of mystical castle turrets/towers I might''ve reached the top of, had I been inside said turret/tower instead of sweating to death in the gym.

Glad to be back.

 

[Lorelei]

LOL - riveting - you crack me up!!!

I have nearly fallen off those dang stairmasters before, I can''t get the hang of them! You are very self disciplined to be able to keep going for so long with your castle stairs! I can''t seem to workout without a TV screen in front of me!!