HCA alternative for Princess Cuts?

[larsmd09]

I''ve been doing much research, with the help of this site and others, before buying a diamond for my girlfriend. I''ve looked at quite a few B&M shops around here (Phoenix), and have made the decision to buy online and have the setting done locally. I''ve run into a problem though: I have no way to analyze the dimensions of the cut to determine whether it is a "bad" diamond. Is there some alternative to the HCA that would allow me to analyze the dimensions of princess cut diamonds? If yes, or if there are some general guidelines concerning certain percents and angles, your help would be much appreciated by myself, and I''m sure in the future by my girlfriend. As a side note, if anyone could make a recommendation to a jeweler in the Phoenix area for a setting (custom or generic) and even diamonds if they are reasonably priced, this would also make my quest much easier. Thanks for your help, and just in case there is curiosity, I will post the info on the diamond I''m hoping to find.

Cut: Ideal, AGS0, Excellent
Clarity: VVS1 - better looking VS1
Color: Preferably D-F, possibly G for right price
Size: .85-1.00, not too important
Budget: about $5,000...perhaps a little more if I find the right stone

Again, thank you.

 

[belle]

if you are looking for an ags0 princess cut go to www.craftedbyinfinity.com and look through the list of dealers. i know diamondexpert (gary dutton) is in chandler and he carries infinity stones. best of luck to you!

 

[Hamster]

Sounds like AGS 0 Princess cuts are getting popular! I just got one and I absolutely love it.
One thing I am wondering though - you could maybe afford to go down a bit in clarity and color and still have an absolutely stunning stone. The AGS 0 princesses face up very white because of their superior light performance, so you can go a bit lower in color. Also, a "D" color stone will be very expensive - are you sure that the difference between a D and a G is worth all that extra money to you? Remember that the stone will be set in a ring eventually and that once set, even lower than G stones can look very, very, white if they are cut well. However, some people (like myself) are very color sensitive and can spot minor color variations while others cannot. I do not detect any color whatsoever in my stone in face up, but I detect a small hint of it from the pavillion side (which will get covered up mostly anyway once it is set). I could, however, detect face up color in some lower quality G princess cuts that I had seen. I would suggest that you contact a dealer that carries AGS 0 cuts and talk to them about your color concerns and see if you can actually see these stones in person. Also, take into consideration the type of setting you will get - if it is a bezel setting and the pavillion will be completely shielded, you could knock the color down even more and still have the stone looked very white in the face up position.

Also, if you are looking for an AGS 0, my guess is that a VVS1 D-F stone could be more than $5K in the size range you are looking at. I have a VS1 and it is SOOOOO hard to find the tiny inclusions with a 30X magnification, let alone 10X. There are many eye clean SI1-2 stones out there, so don''t limit yourself. Sometimes it is hard to get past the labelling because "slightly included" doesn''t sound as nice to the ear as "internally flawless", but you may not be able to see the difference with your own eye. If that is the case, do you really want to pay for something you cannot see?

 

[DiamondExpert]

OK, a little quiz...all 4 stones are AGS graded...please indicate the relative color differences (left to right)...I''m not asking for the individual colors as that would not be fair...pic taked in indirect diffused sunlight at a window with lots of green and pastel pinkish surrounding colors with the blue AZ cloudless sky in the background

!

I''ll post the specifics in an hour or so....good luck!

 

[DiamondExpert]

Actually, the that pic looks a bit dark...try this one, and note that the sequence is changed...

 

[larsmd09]

I can''t detect any difference between the 4 diamonds...but is it as easy to tell the difference on a computer screen? No, this is not a rhetorical question. In response to opening up my "restrictions" on the diamonds I am looking for: I am very open to diamonds at the bottom of the range (VS1 & G). I would prefer an F stone because in the relatively few diamonds I have looked at there seemed to be a significant difference between F & G stones. This could be the result of lower grade G stones, but I haven''t met with any knowledgeable salespeople at the stores I''ve been to, so all I''ve heard is a sales pitch. I also have yet to see an AGS0 in person, and from what I read on here, this cut rating alone will "make up" for a relatively lower clarity. If this sounds very "unexpertlike," it is. Perhaps DiamondExpert (forgive me if your name is not correct) would be willing to sit down and show me some diamonds sometime this week so I would know what I was looking at. It would be so nice to talk with a diamond salesman who is also a diamond expert. Thank you for your help.

 

[larsmd09]

Ahhh yes...I forgot...I''m still looking for the answer to my initial question: Is there an alternative program to HCA that can be used for princess cut diamonds? And if not, could someone please provide some general guidelines as far as angles & percentages are concerned. I remember reading some general info on crown & depth percentages somewhere here on PS, but from what I remember the ranges were very wide...and all the diamonds I''ve looked at have seemed to be in the upper reaches of these ranges (68%-75% for both depth & table). Thank you.

 

[DiamondExpert]

I think the point I''m trying to make is that it is more difficult to see the true body color of a brilliant cut diamond in the face up position than it is in the pavilion up position - I will show a pic of these same stones upside down soon.

That''s part of the beauty of a well cut stone, and the "masking" of the color difference can be more striking than most folks think.

I agree that a computer screen is not the best way to view diamonds - especially when dealing with color. However, it is valid to a certain extent in showing a small difference in color face up, but a much larger difference in color pavilion up.

 

[Hamster]

Diamondexpert - Is this a trick question?

My guess is 1, 4, 2, 3 (if number 1 is the left-most diamond)

 

[DiamondExpert]

No tricks...just a little fun!

 

[belle]

hey larsmd09,
to answer your question about an hca alternative, no there is not one. fancy cuts are just too complex for such a tool. also, princess cuts are going thru somewhat of a change right now with the new ags0 grading. these stones are quite different from the general market share available at the moment. you could look at the depth and table, even the pavilion angle and try to decide if you have a well cut stone, but the fact is, with princess cut stones there is more than just those parts of the equation that must be considered. i hope you get a chance to look at some ags0''s and compare them, i think it will be an insightful experience. best of luck to you.

 

[DiamondExpert]

OK, it's getting late...here are the sequence results shown in the first pic (not the first)...in the second pic the two stones on the right have been switched...

from left to right: 1.75ct., G, VVS1, AGS1 (symmetry); 1.31ct., J, VVS2, AGS0; 1.07ct., F, SI1, AGS1 (light performance); 1.57ct., G, VS1, AGS0.

Here is what they look like pavilion up...you can quite clearly see the color differences!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/3/2005 6:08:00 PM
Author: larsmd09
Ahhh yes...I forgot...I''m still looking for the answer to my initial question: Is there an alternative program to HCA that can be used for princess cut diamonds? And if not, could someone please provide some general guidelines as far as angles & percentages are concerned. I remember reading some general info on crown & depth percentages somewhere here on PS, but from what I remember the ranges were very wide...and all the diamonds I''ve looked at have seemed to be in the upper reaches of these ranges (68%-75% for both depth & table). Thank you.

The answer is the AGS cut grading system.
Table and depth % are next to useless.
Also stay away from thin girdles. i prefer slightly thick and we polish off the 4 tips to reduce the risk of breakage.
In 100 years from now most princess will be chipped.

 

[larsmd09]

Diamondexpert: Do you have a store here where I could go check out some of the infinity diamonds in person?

 

[Hamster]

Date: 10/3/2005 8:12:22 PM
Author: larsmd09
Diamondexpert: Do you have a store here where I could go check out some of the infinity diamonds in person?

Larsmd-

I think that any vendors can''t really "sollicit" your business on the forums, so don''t be offended if diamondexpert does not respond. Go to his website at www.diamondexpert.com though and find out how you can contact him.

also try checking out the information at the Infinity Diamonds website at:
www.infinitydiamonds.be

From a consumer standpoint, I would really urge you to see these stones - they are quite amazing. As you can see from the little demonstration, face up they are all really, really white due to their excellet cut.

 

[Hamster]

Date: 10/3/2005 8:02:20 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Also stay away from thin girdles. i prefer slightly thick and we polish off the 4 tips to reduce the risk of breakage.
In 100 years from now most princess will be chipped.

Cut Nut - are you refering to the chamfers on the stone? My understanding is that they are microscopic almost, so you can''t really see that they are there.

When you say in 100 years from now most princesses will be chipped, is this due to thin girdles and lack of chamfers, or is the cut prone to this anyway? Is this from normal wear and tear?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/3/2005 8:36:02 PM
Author: Hamster

Date: 10/3/2005 8:02:20 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Also stay away from thin girdles. i prefer slightly thick and we polish off the 4 tips to reduce the risk of breakage.
In 100 years from now most princess will be chipped.

Cut Nut - are you refering to the chamfers on the stone? My understanding is that they are microscopic almost, so you can''t really see that they are there.

When you say in 100 years from now most princesses will be chipped, is this due to thin girdles and lack of chamfers, or is the cut prone to this anyway? Is this from normal wear and tear?

Yes - the chamfering is going to save many stones and should be normal practice.
Thin girdles and the fact that the natural cleavage direction is lined up - that will account for an additional good % as well.

Most is more than 50%.
I would bet on it, but will not be around to collect my bottle of wine