shape
carat
color
clarity

Having trouble narrowing down a princess cut

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
Hey everyone.

I'm new here and getting a heck of an education. I was hoping some of the experts here could help me out.

I ma looking for a princess cut stone. Colour G or better. Obviously eye-clean, SI1 is acceptable but prefer higher. I have narrowed it down to a few stones but I just can't get a feel for which is going to sparkle the best. Obviously, would also like the stone to be as big as possible. My budget is limited to about $2500 CDN (for the diamond)

Here are my top 3:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.60-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-721706

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.61-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-719025

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.58-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-697019

and another for good measure.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.55-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-597271

I'm at an absolute loss. The james allen people say to go with 719025 because it's the biggest and these diamonds look more or less the same otherwise. Are the cuts on these really "ideal" or are these not going to "sparkle/flash"?

Thanks a million in advance. I do really appreciate any help I can get!

Colin
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
Good light performance is the result of good cut, not high color or clarity.

GIA does not grade cut of princesses.
AGS does so I'd only consider princesses graded by AGS.

Only the last one of the five you posted was graded by AGS.
It did not get AGS's top cut grade of AGS 0 Ideal so I'd keep shopping.

To find your color and clarity comfort zones go out and view princess cuts in person, but only look at those grade by GIA or AGS since many other labs lie about grades.
Shocking, but true.

Better cut returns more light, which can hide body color so you can get away with lower-color diamonds if well cut.
Of course this only applies to the top view.
Side view shows more body color than top (and good cut does nothing for side view)
Also, we see a side view more often than a top view so make sure you are okay with what your choice looks like from the side.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,224
I think your top 3 look great! I do like the last stone, but if you want as big as possible, I think the 0.61 will be very nice.

What kind of setting are you looking at?

eta- I don't think you need to throw away any because they aren't graded by ags. There is always a trade off unless you have unlimited funds.

However, WF does have some nice ones..

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3568729.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3588426.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3520089.htm
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
The problem with the whiteflash site is that I'm not happy with any of the settings really.

The setting will be white gold with some side diamonds. I'm leaning towards the first setting. If I do end up spending more on the diamond though, I might have to scale back and pick the second setting to pinch a few more pennies.

And it's no that I'm absolutely set on the size - I'd much rather have a pretty diamond which is slightly smaller than a larger diamond which is just "meh". I'm obviously open to suggestions. In fact, one of the ones on whiteflash that you posted I had already looked it. The problem is, with the conversion and the duty (since I don't like the settings) that stone is about $2700...

In all likelihood - http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/side-stones/14k-white-gold-0.30ct-common-prong-round-shaped-diamond-engagement-ring-item-7096

If not, http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/james-allen-exclusive-engagement-ring-item-49519

Is there any point in having jamesallen do an idealscope on any of the stones I listed? I know that with the cut calcutor ma-jiggy that the first two grade as a 1A and 1B respectively.

Thanks so much.
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
kenny|1446328446|3944303 said:
Good light performance is the result of good cut, not high color or clarity.

GIA does not grade cut of princesses.
AGS does so I'd only consider princesses graded by AGS.

Only the last one of the five you posted was graded by AGS.
It did not get AGS's top cut grade of AGS 0 Ideal so I'd keep shopping.

To find your color and clarity comfort zones go out and view princess cuts in person, but only look at those grade by GIA or AGS since many other labs lie about grades.
Shocking, but true.

Better cut returns more light, which can hide body color so you can get away with lower-color diamonds if well cut.
Of course this only applies to the top view.
Side view shows more body color than top (and good cut does nothing for side view)
Also, we see a side view more often than a top view so make sure you are okay with what your choice looks like from the side.

Kenny, is it not worth it at all to even try getting an IDEALSCOPE done on nay of the first three, which are graded by GIA? I was intially looking on bluenile but many people steered me away because of the lack of images.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,224
What do you like better about the first setting? I actually prefer the 2nd. The main price difference is that the first has more diamonds, however I like the head of the 2nd (more rounded, fluid looking).

These wf settings would be similar as well, maxing out around 1600 cad

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/ritani-1rz2498-diamond-engagement-ring-3921.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/petite-open-cathedral-diamond-engagement-ring-1539.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-sleek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-422.htm
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
Telephone89,

It's not about what I like, but it's the closest thing to what her Pinterest boards tell me!

So would a scope be worth it or not really?

Thanks again,

Colin
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
pughball|1446329979|3944308 said:
Is there any point in having jamesallen do an idealscope on any of the stones I listed?

Pros I respect have stated that ASET is more useful than IS when the cut is not round.
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
Would it be worthwhile getting an ASET scan on any of th we then?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
pughball|1446332599|3944323 said:
Would it be worthwhile getting an ASET scan on any of th we then?

I'd just buy any AGS 0 princess with color, clarity and price I like.
AGS 0 is a very high bar for cut.

Alternatively you are also assured of excellent cut from a branded princess from Solasfera at Goodoldgold, or ACA princess at Whiteflash.

Basically you need to be sure about cut quality and AGS 0 does that ... these high end brands also do that.
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
Kenny,

I simply can't afford an AGS-0 diamond in the colour or size I want. That's out of the question. It's why I'm trying to make the best out of the options I listed. It's also s bit tricky in that I'm shopping from Canada so that complicates matters in terms of duty and exchange rates.

Sorry that I'm kind of difficult.

Thanks again,

Colin
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
telephone89|1446328869|3944305 said:
I think your top 3 look great! I do like the last stone, but if you want as big as possible, I think the 0.61 will be very nice.

What kind of setting are you looking at?

eta- I don't think you need to throw away any because they aren't graded by ags. There is always a trade off unless you have unlimited funds.

However, WF does have some nice ones..

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3568729.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3588426.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3520089.htm

Telephone when you said the last stone was the nicest - did you mean the TRUEHEARTS stone or one of my "top 3"?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
pughball|1446330071|3944309 said:
kenny|1446328446|3944303 said:
Good light performance is the result of good cut, not high color or clarity.

GIA does not grade cut of princesses.
AGS does so I'd only consider princesses graded by AGS.

Only the last one of the five you posted was graded by AGS.
It did not get AGS's top cut grade of AGS 0 Ideal so I'd keep shopping.

To find your color and clarity comfort zones go out and view princess cuts in person, but only look at those grade by GIA or AGS since many other labs lie about grades.
Shocking, but true.

Better cut returns more light, which can hide body color so you can get away with lower-color diamonds if well cut.
Of course this only applies to the top view.
Side view shows more body color than top (and good cut does nothing for side view)
Also, we see a side view more often than a top view so make sure you are okay with what your choice looks like from the side.

Kenny, is it not worth it at all to even try getting an IDEALSCOPE done on nay of the first three, which are graded by GIA? I was intially looking on bluenile but many people steered me away because of the lack of images.

I've read pros here say that ASET is better than IS when the cut is not round.

Sellers are smart.
If a princess is cut super well they'd send it to AGS, not GIA for the coveted AGS 0, cut grade.
It is justification for charging more.

I would let someone less-informed buy princesses graded by GIA.
Top cut is not an accident.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,344
pughball|1446333032|3944325 said:
Kenny,

I simply can't afford an AGS-0 diamond in the colour or size I want. That's out of the question. It's why I'm trying to make the best out of the options I listed. It's also s bit tricky in that I'm shopping from Canada so that complicates matters in terms of duty and exchange rates.

Sorry that I'm kind of difficult.

Thanks again,

Colin

Your call.
Me? ... top cut is priority ONE ... so I live with tiny diamonds that blow my head of with sparkle.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,741
HI pughball,
Congrats on getting a diamond- that's always fun!
When it comes to princess cuts there's a lot more diversity than in, say, round brilliant cuts.
For this reason the AGSL "Ideal" cut grade is nowhere nearly as well accepted by princess cut experts, as compared to AGSL round diamond cut grading.
If you notice the spread- or millimeter size- of the diamonds you're considering, you'll see that some of the GIA graded diamonds will look larger for the same weight.
A positive aspect of the AGSL Princess Cut grade is that the stones are consistent in appearance from one to the next.
The down side of that is some people prefer a princess cut to look different than what AGSL considers Ideal.
Personally I do prefer a Princess Cut with a slightly larger table, and slighter flatter top that results in a larger stone for the weight.
In terms of Light Performance: very important to remember that what one person considers "Great light Performance" is about their taste, more than a scientific measurement.
Maximum light return= a mirror. That means that more light return is not necessarily better.

The AGSL stones will have larger brighter flashes- the type of GIA graded stone I'm referring to has a lot more flashes, spread all over the top of the stone.

If it's possible to look in person, it might help.
IN general the AGSL graded stones will trade at a premium, so if one prefers a look different from AGSL Ideal it makes a lot of sense going with a GIA graded diamond.

When looking at ASET- AGSL stones have a distinctive ASET signature. Bold reds and greens. The type of stone I'm referring to has a much more "mosaic" type of ASET- lots of smaller bits of red and green. Understanding ASET is an entire study in itself.....
 

pughball

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
10
I promise this is the last request.

I really want to buy this diamond, http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.58-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-697019

I have now attached the ASET scan. 697019.jpg

To me it looks very similar to the whiteflash diamond seen here, http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3588426.htm

Unfortunately the second diamond is out of the price range.

Do you experts think that the ASET scan looks good for the james allen diamond?

Thanks,

Colin
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Messages
4,224
I think it will be lovely.
 
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