Have You Watched The House Impeachment Hearings? If So, What Do You Think?

[redwood66]

Proof of intent is absolutely what is necessary. This is serious and bipartisan support is necessary or it is a sham.

Republicans look at every case against Trump that has gone nowhere and see this as just another example.

 

[AGBF]

I asked Karl what would constitute proof to him and he never replied. See below for exact wording of our exchange..

What is it in the extortion attempt about which you need more "proof" ?

The part where Trump held up the military aid that had already been granted by Congress; vetted by the Pentagon; and signed off on by Donald Trump himself?
or
The part where Donald Trump told President Zellinsky that he would have to go to a microphone and announce that he was going to investigate the 2016 Democratic server and the Bidens in order to unfreeze that aid and to get a meeting at The White House?

What would you accept as "proof'?

PS-Nothing could restore that days without military aid or the lack of presence of President Trump at Zelinksy's inauguration, which he had begged for, and which Trump had denied him.

 

[partgypsy]

Proof of intent is absolutely what is necessary. This is serious and bipartisan support is necessary or it is a sham.

Republicans look at every case against Trump that has gone nowhere and see this as just another example.

Multiple people have testified under oath that Trump broke the law. And the grounds for impeachment is less than what is needed for a criminal trial. Sorry if you are emotionally attached to Trump or what he stands for, but we can't have a corrupt person be the president. I'm a boring middle aged lady but I and many others like me will March the streets if justice is subverted. May God help us all.

 

[redwood66]

Multiple people have testified under oath that Trump broke the law. And the grounds for impeachment is less than what is needed for a criminal trial. Sorry if you are emotionally attached to Trump or what he stands for, but we can't have a corrupt person be the president. I'm a boring middle aged lady but I and many others like me will March the streets if justice is subverted. May God help us all.

Why do you find it necessary to make a personal snide comment?

March all you like as is your right to do so. The witnesses have testified to their opinion and have also said no he did not break the law.

 

[Matata]

Multiple people have testified under oath that Trump broke the law.

To clarify, we heard evidence that could lead to a conclusion that he broke the law. Sondland was the only witness, if I recall correctly, who said there was a quid pro quo, but he did not state trump broke the law. Sondland is not, imo, a creditable witness and some revelations today during Fiona Hill's testimony cast doubt on the veracity of some parts of Sondland's testimony. Other witnesses provided evidence that trump's actions as well as those of his posse led them to believe his actions were inappropriate. A witnesses's job is provide factual evidence not make a judgment about guilt or innocence. A determination of trump's guilt or innocence will come from the Senate. As we already know, McConnell and Graham stated before the impeachment process began that they would not find trump guilty. I have little faith that their intentions have changed in spite of the overwhelming evidence that trump broke the law.

 

[Ella]

Folks no name calling or you will be removed.

 

[partgypsy]

DOJ declined to prosecute. Which I feel is an omission. They didn't even forward the complaint to the senate, which is what they are supposed to do. Here is a law professor's take. That it may not have broken the law. However for something to be an impeachable offense it does not need to break the law. And what Trump did was certainly an impeachable offense.

Hang on a minute, did Trump break the law with his Ukraine call?

It's all up to interpretation.

qz.com

 

[Dancing Fire]

Karl, are you aware that most of your arguments sound like Fox News rhetoric and that you aren’t addressing the fact that Trump withheld aid from a vulnerable country in order to get them to announce that they were investigating his political rival?

As of today has it been announced by the Ukrainians?

 

[Dancing Fire]

If Dems want to impeach the President of the United States they'd better be able to prove intent, especially if they want bipartisan support. This is no joke and their personal feelings about Trump or "Trumpsters" aren't relevant.

Perhaps concentrating on winning the election would be a better idea.

Agree, but the problem is the Dems know that they don't have a candidate who can beat Trump, so they must impeach him before the election.

 

[Dancing Fire]

However for something to be an impeachable offense it does not need to break the law. And what Trump did was certainly an impeachable offense.

So if Biden were to win in 2020 you would have no problem if Congress removed him from office?

 

[kenny]

So if Biden were to win in 2020 you would have no problem if Congress removed him from office?

Of course not, if Biden did something impeachable.
(But don't forget to vote for the wholesome candidate, Mayor Pete.)

It's not about political sides.
It's about right and wrong.

Besides, if Trump is FIRED a republican still has the presidency till the end of the term.

 

[Karl_K]

I asked Karl what would constitute proof to him and he never replied. See below for exact wording of our exchange..

Hey Deb.
I dont feel that anything would be gained by continuing in this thread.
I would rather talk about stuff in other threads with much less contention at this time.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Of course not, if Biden did something impeachable.

It's about right and wrong.

IYO, Is this impeachable?

 

[kenny]

DF, I have no idea.

 

[partgypsy]

Everyone's saying they don't know Trump's intention. Easy. Trump just needs to testify under oath to congress. Bill Clinton was good enough to do so. Hillary Clinton as instructed testified under oath as well, for hours, under cross examination for the embassy attack. It's his impeachment. The least he can do is show up for it. Any arguments from the Republicans about that? We can't have one set of rules for one group of people (Democratic politicians) and another set of rules for a different group (Republicans). We are all equal under the eyes of the law.

 

[House Cat]

@redwood66, I don’t understand the need to hang on to whether or not DT had intent. People break the law all of the time without intent and they still have to face the consequences of their actions. Intent is irrelevant as far as I can see.

 

[moneymeister]

And this is why I don't bother anymore.

 

[missy]

@redwood66, I don’t understand the need to hang on to whether or not DT had intent. People break the law all of the time without intent and they still have to face the consequences of their actions. Intent is irrelevant as far as I can see.

You know what they say about the road to hell. Paved with good intentions.
That’s not to say DT has good intentions. I am not commenting on that. Just agreeing with @House Cat

 

[soxfan]

Oh. My. God. Did anyone listen to Trump on Fox and Friends this morning? I don't understand how ANYONE can listen to that and think he is in his right mind.

 

[AGBF]

IYO, Is this imp

You are spreading false rumours. Your video states fabrications .Check your facts. You are probably doing the work of the Russians, which Dr. Hill warned us all not to do.Vladimir Putin is behind this false narrative.

Fact check: What Joe and Hunter Biden actually did in Ukraine

The facts are getting lost in the frenzy.

www.axios.com

 

[redwood66]

You are spreading false rumours. Your video states fabrications .Check your facts. You are probably doing the work of the Russians, which Dr. Hill warned us all not to do.Vladimir Putin is behind this false narrative.

Fact check: What Joe and Hunter Biden actually did in Ukraine

The facts are getting lost in the frenzy.

www.axios.com

Vladimir Putin is laughing at this sh*tshow that the US has become with the two sides at each other's throats. It doesn't matter who is in charge when that happens.

 

[redwood66]

@redwood66, I don’t understand the need to hang on to whether or not DT had intent. People break the law all of the time without intent and they still have to face the consequences of their actions. Intent is irrelevant as far as I can see.

Comey said it is.

I needed a little humor since it's getting too heated in here.

 

[AGBF]

Vladimir Putin is laughing at this sh*tshow that the US has become with the two sides at each other's throats. It doesn't matter who is in charge when that happens.

I agree. But we can put a stop to spreading his lies. His narrative about the Ukraine being culpable for the 2016 elections started with Putin. It is up to us to put a stop to it.

 

[partgypsy]

Riveting testimony and reminder of what is at stake.

FIONA HILL: A coal-miner's daughter, Russia expert, warns of attacks on U.S. elections :: WRAL.com

Friday, Nov. 22, 2019 -- Russia's security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so...

www.wral.com

The Russian government’s goal is to weaken our country—to diminish America’s global role and to neutralize a perceived U.S. threat to Russian interests. President Putin and the Russian security services aim to counter U.S. foreign policy objectives in Europe, including in Ukraine, where Moscow wishes to reassert political and economic dominance.

I say this not as an alarmist, but as a realist. I do not think long-term conflict with Russia is either desirable or inevitable. I continue to believe that we need to seek ways of stabilizing our relationship with Moscow even as we counter their efforts to harm us. Right now, Russia’s security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election.

We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.

 

[redwood66]

This whole thing is politically driven. And neither side is clean.

I agree with Harsanyi as I often do.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/11/the-impeachment-hearings-have-been-useless/


..."To me, there’s little question such a call from the president — whether he was explicitly favor trading or not — is at the very least unethical and at most an abuse of power. Is it impeachable? That’s a political decision. Because, no matter how hard liberals try and convince you otherwise, the Trump presidency doesn’t operate in a vacuum. Republicans believe they’ve been living life under two sets of rules. Considering what previous administrations have gotten away with — and what many of the people now clamoring for impeachment helped them get away with — it’s difficult to blame them. Perhaps if Democrats and operatives within government hadn’t spent three years cooking up a fantastical Manchurian Candidate conspiracy to delegitimize Trump this impeachment inquiry might be playing out differently. As it stands now, the entire effort is drenched in partisanship. Which makes it extremely unlikely that many voters will be pried from their previously held positions. Nothing that’s been said during these hearings changes that fact."

 

[Dancing Fire]

Funny, Hillary should ask herself the Q. Am I above the law?

Hillary Clinton asks if Republicans will place Trump "above the law"

"The question is not whether Trump has committed impeachable crimes. He has."

www.axios.com

 

[Calliecake]

I watched much of the hearings the past few days. I don’t know how anyone listening to Fiona Hill and David Holmes yesterday, could not see how serious this is. The facts keep getting worse for the President and the case is getting stronger for impeachment.

Does truth not matter in our country anymore?

 

[kenny]

Does truth not matter in our country anymore?

Not to many republicans.
Not to politicians who like their cushy jobs.

 

[Maria D]

Oh. My. God. Did anyone listen to Trump on Fox and Friends this morning? I don't understand how ANYONE can listen to that and think he is in his right mind.

I am checking it out now. Oh lord, he's unhinged. It's so cringe inducing that it makes me almost feel sympathy for the Fox&Friends hosts as they try to wrest control of the interview. Almost.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I watched much of the hearings the past few days. I don’t know how anyone listening to Fiona Hill and David Holmes yesterday, could not see how serious this is. The facts keep getting worse for the President and the case is getting stronger for impeachment.

Does truth not matter in our country anymore?

If the Dems were so serious about the law HRC would be in prison a long time ago.