shape
carat
color
clarity

Have this diamond on hold at BN and looking for opinions on it please

misstrish1030

Rough_Rock
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i would love some input from some experts :)

Here is the GIA report https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2215558797

Here is the BlueNile link: https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...NDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

I will be setting it in this setting https://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-ring/graduated-pave-double-prong-ring-platinum_42414

My budget for the entire ring is 10.5(ish).

Is the symmetry being very good and not excellent very important?

I've also been looking at this stone but the polish is very good, not excellent.


Thank you all for your help!
 

misstrish1030

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Just adding a photo and some more details for the stone I have on hold:
diamond.jpg
1.36C
Table 56.8%
Crown Angle 34.8
Crown Height 15.0%
Girdle Faceted, 1.6% to 4.1%
Pavilion Angle 40.9
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 49%
Lower Girdle Length 79%
Total Depth 61.9%
Culet Very Small

Thanks!



Which stone is this for?

This is for the first stone I mentioned, sorry I should have been more clear. Looks like that stone has been graded by GIA and ASG,
i would love some input from some experts :)

Here is the GIA report https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2215558797

Here is the BlueNile link: https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...NDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&catalogView=true

I will be setting it in this setting https://www.bluenile.com/build-your-own-ring/graduated-pave-double-prong-ring-platinum_42414

My budget for the entire ring is 10.5(ish).

Is the symmetry being very good and not excellent very important?

I've also been looking at this stone but the polish is very good, not excellent.


Thank you all for your help!
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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AGS0 will likely be a beautiful and lively stone. And a nice size, to boot!
 

misstrish1030

Rough_Rock
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anyone else that may be able to offer an opinion? I want to make sure we are making a good buy. Thank you
 

sledge

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Interesting stone for sure. Not many have both GIA and AGS lab reports.

A few things I noticed:

1. AGS graded the stone as G-SI1. The GIA report has it graded as G-VS2. We know clarity is subjective, graded by humans and can vary one grade +/- between labs without setting off alarms. Great. In real world speak, to me this means the stone is a borderline SI1/VS2 clarity. I’ve not ran a price comparison but I would want to pay SI1 pricing and not VS2 pricing.

2. Date on the GIA lab report is 4/2021. Assume this was a potential trade in and they had regraded. No date on the AGS web report but am curious when it was first “born”.

3. GIA symmetry of very good vs AGS ideal. That’s odd. Possibly the very small culet? Thoughts @Karl_K?

4. Very small culet is unique. Most are none.

5. Steep crown and steep pavilion. Wondering if this AGS report was before ray-tracing?
 

DejaWiz

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The symmetry just seems a bit off for both of those...the arrow lengths are vastly differing.

If you're not opposed to buying elsewhere, then how about an alternative?


 

misstrish1030

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Interesting stone for sure. Not many have both GIA and AGS lab reports.

A few things I noticed:

1. AGS graded the stone as G-SI1. The GIA report has it graded as G-VS2. We know clarity is subjective, graded by humans and can vary one grade +/- between labs without setting off alarms. Great. In real world speak, to me this means the stone is a borderline SI1/VS2 clarity. I’ve not ran a price comparison but I would want to pay SI1 pricing and not VS2 pricing.

2. Date on the GIA lab report is 4/2021. Assume this was a potential trade in and they had regraded. No date on the AGS web report but am curious when it was first “born”.

3. GIA symmetry of very good vs AGS ideal. That’s odd. Possibly the very small culet? Thoughts @Karl_K?

4. Very small culet is unique. Most are none.

5. Steep crown and steep pavilion. Wondering if this AGS report was before ray-tracing?
It looks to be about $1,000 give or take less than comparable diamonds with VS2/G color.

We are looking for a diamond that will be sparkly and eye clean. Would this one fit the bill?

is the small cutlet and
Steep/crown pavilion
A negative ?

thank you!
 

Karl_K

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This stone was graded by ags over 10 years ago by the looks of it.
Reports newer than 10 years would have the pdf available on the website.
based on this: A reprint of the document for this AGS number diamond is not available. Please see the Reprint Policy." on the report lookup and: "Effective July 1, 2020, reprints are available for diamonds graded by AGS Laboratories within the last ten years since the date the report was issued. If your diamond was graded within the last ten years, you can view a pdf download of the report here at americangemsociety.org/verifyadiamond."

So its the old cut grade system but would likley get 0 light performance today.
 

Karl_K

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5. Steep crown and steep pavilion. Wondering if this AGS report was before ray-tracing?
40.9\34.9 its in the upper range of what should be considered normal and is a perfectly fine combo when well executed.
Yes the report was before ray tracing.
 

John Pollard

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Thanks for the ping @Karl_K .

Regarding the 1.36, the symmetry conclusions do seem irregular. I'd also like to know more about the clarity specifics - priority and locations - when AGS graded the stone, versus GIA 2021. I'll work on getting more info.
 

sledge

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This stone was graded by ags over 10 years ago by the looks of it.
Reports newer than 10 years would have the pdf available on the website.
based on this: A reprint of the document for this AGS number diamond is not available. Please see the Reprint Policy." on the report lookup and: "Effective July 1, 2020, reprints are available for diamonds graded by AGS Laboratories within the last ten years since the date the report was issued. If your diamond was graded within the last ten years, you can view a pdf download of the report here at americangemsociety.org/verifyadiamond."

So its the old cut grade system but would likley get 0 light performance today.

Thanks for clarifying.


40.9\34.9 its in the upper range of what should be considered normal and is a perfectly fine combo when well executed.
Yes the report was before ray tracing.

Agree it's on the fringe. Key definition, if well executed. These are similar combos that are well executed. Both receiving AGS000, and would be the best case scenario I would expect from this stone.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4219809.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2909298.htm

While maybe not perfect, the hearts image on both these stones are very solid indicating ideal symmetry.

The fact GIA rated symmetry as VG concerns me the stone in question may not be executed as precisely as these two examples above.

Maybe I am over-thinking it.

Capture.PNG

Capture-zoom.PNG

@John Pollard is more of an expert on the minute details of ags/gia grading than I am.

Hoping @John Pollard can weigh in. I realize he can't give an opinion about the stone. However, the question about culet could be answered in regards to changing symmetry grade.

Also, I am curious if anyone that has access, can determine what notes GIA may have put with the stone when they graded? At least I am hoping there is a trail of some sort that explains the reasoning.

I'm expecting the notes to identify something using their abbreviations/criteria found here:


 

sledge

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Thanks for the ping @Karl_K .

Regarding the 1.36, the symmetry conclusions do seem irregular. I'd also like to know more about the clarity specifics - priority and locations - when AGS graded the stone, versus GIA 2021. I'll work on getting more info.

Got interrupted in my response, and see you popped in. Sorry for any duplication. Looking forward to see what you also discover.
 

John Pollard

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Got interrupted in my response, and see you popped in. Sorry for any duplication. Looking forward to see what you also discover.
@sledge no worries. You're making great contributions here on the regular.

A couple of follow up points:

I'm sure many here know, but I'll offer it anyway: "Symmetry" as labs grade it is confined to surface situations. It has nothing to do with optical precision / pursuing the alignment of internal reflections to produce hearts & arrows patterns, etc. It's more about facet shape, proper facet meet points, alignment of table to culet, no misshapen or missing facets, etc.

In this case the first area I'd check - in terms of traditional symmetry analysis - is GTV, which is girdle thickness variation. AGS says it runs 1.6%-4.1%. And while the GIA report states MED-STK, medium is a huge range. Another reason I'd go there first is because the labs have different approaches in overall girdle assessment.
 

misstrish1030

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Thanks! I am trying to learn alot from this thread and forum in general.

I can't seem to find another stone H+ color, SL1+, faint/no Florescence at this size and price point that looks eye clean from BN (but admittedly I'm not sure if I'm looking at things correctly.)

My boyfriend prefers BN because they have a local show room and he feels more comfortable buying online if he has a physical location to go to incase of a problem.
 

John Pollard

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Update: The original AGS report was issued in 2006. That was prior to electronic plots. However, in keeping with GIA's analysis, the feathers are noted as the grade-setting inclusion, followed by the crystal, and pinpoints were listed in the comments.

In borderline cases it's not surprising for AGS to be a bit stricter in clarity grading. That said, I had occasion to mention earlier today that clarity grading now, in the macro, is seen by many pros as a bit softer than clarity grading of yesteryear.

I was told that my guess regarding symmetry is a likely answer, given the different assessment approaches. To be certain would require examining the diamond again. It's largely a non-factor: Diamonds with the top 2 symmetry grades at GIA - and the top 3 at AGS - have identical naked eye appearance.
 

misstrish1030

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Update: The original AGS report was issued in 2006. That was prior to electronic plots. However, in keeping with GIA's analysis, the feathers are noted as the grade-setting inclusion, followed by the crystal, and pinpoints were listed in the comments.

In borderline cases it's not surprising for AGS to be a bit stricter in clarity grading. That said, I had occasion to mention earlier today that clarity grading now, in the macro, is seen by many pros as a bit softer than clarity grading of yesteryear.

I was told that my guess regarding symmetry is a likely answer, given the different assessment approaches. To be certain would require examining the diamond again. It's largely a non-factor: Diamonds with the top 2 symmetry grades at GIA - and the top 3 at AGS - have identical naked eye appearance.
Did you think the very good rating was due to the cutlet or the girdle? I’m trying to follow all the info in the thread.

Also, any concerns with a diamond that has been circulating since 2006 or is that common and sometimes we arnt even aware of the stones history once it’s regraded?

Thanks so much everyone !
 

John Pollard

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Did you think the very good rating was due to the cutlet or the girdle? I’m trying to follow all the info in the thread.

Hi @misstrish1030 . Based on the evidence I believe it's girdle thickness variation. Whatever the case, it's nothing of concern from a visual standpoint.

Also, any concerns with a diamond that has been circulating since 2006 or is that common and sometimes we arnt even aware of the stones history once it’s regraded?

There are no concerns from an integrity standpoint, since the diamond has a fresh report.

The only reason we're aware it has a "past circulation" is because it was sent to GIA, rather than back through AGS. In most cases diamonds that come back to pros are cycled through the original lab - for verification of condition and report-update with a fresh date. In this case we got bonus information, since GIA was obligated to note the original AGS report number inscribed on the girdle.
 

sledge

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Thank you @John Pollard, much appreciated.

In regards to the stone having a past life, that is personal preference. One thing is certain. Getting a fresh report after being in circulation since 2006 is a must IMO. So I am glad to see that BN had the stone regraded. I am a little confused why they didn't send back to AGS though.

If you can talk your boyfriend into walking on the wild side, this is a really awesome alternate for essentially the same money.

WF ACA 1.285 H-VS2 @ $9,378 wire

A true hearts & arrow (H&A) stone with AGS000 lab report, and all the advanced images required to PROVE it's a total performer. Roughly 5-10% of all diamonds in the world, hit this level of perfection. #sparklebomb

Do some research and you will discover that WF is a very highly respected vendor on this forum. They go above & beyond to make sure their customers are happy, and are completely transparent in their actions. Also, they have a lifetime upgrade program that allows you to trade up, down or sideways as long as you spend $1 or more. No other strings. Places like BN will require your spend 2x the original amount to upgrade.

WF can arrange to have the stone shipped to you for inspection prior to setting, so you get to see what you are buying. Also, they can custom make settings that would closely match the BN setting you already found. Here is one that is very similar to the one you found.

Also, when you purchase a setting from them with melee in it, they upgrade those teeny tiny stones to high quality super ideal melee so that it better matches the quality of the center stone as well.

 

John Pollard

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Is this how the AGS report look?. Here's my wife's stone from 2004.

From 1996-2005 the AGS Ideal grade was based on a round brilliant's average proportions falling into a certain range. The DQD example you posted reflects grading according to that metric.

In 2005 AGS introduced their current light performance metric, where the grade is based on ray-tracing analysis of a full 3D scan of the diamond. It's a more robust, diamond specific system.

It's hard to say which system would have been used in 2006. They were heavily promoting the more sophisticated metric but I recall them continuing to offer proportions based systems. According to the numbers this stone would have been a candidate for Ideal in either system.
 

Karl_K

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It's hard to say which system would have been used in 2006. They were heavily promoting the more sophisticated metric but I recall them continuing to offer proportions based systems. According to the numbers this stone would have been a candidate for Ideal in either system.
Thats what I recall also.
 
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