have a couple days to choose my Emerald ct...HELP!

[StVincent]

I have a choice between 5 diamonds that I liked....here they are:
I liked all 5. I want to get the larger, and "better" cut, and can use some guidance.

1st stone:
.80carat, VVS1-F:GIA certificate
7.04x4.40x2.73
depth=62%, table=74%
slight thick girdle


2nd stone:
.83carat, VS1-F:GIA certificate
5.88x5.07x3.17
depth=62.8%, table=74%
medium girdle

3rd stone:
.77carat, VS1-E:GIA certificate
this was cut less square more rectangle(no measures)
depth=70.6%, table=64%?(not sure)
medium to thick girdle

4th stone:
.82carat, VS1-F:GIA certificate
6.79x4.40x2.86
depth=64.7%, table=78%
thin to midium girdle?(not sure).

5th stone:
.83carat VS1-F:GIA certificate
Depth: 64.4%, Table: 63%
Polish: VG, Symmetry: GD
Girdle: Very thin-MED
6.22x4.81x3.10
THE 5TH STONE I HAVE NOT SEEN, just info on it.

they all are none florecence and no culet; and vary in a couple hundred to $400 in price difference, the VVS1(1st stone) being most expensive which I dont care to go towards.

I wish David Atlas can chime in time enough to help, but for those who know Emerald cuts, please give some helpful feed back. THANKS!

 

[valeria101]

If you named David Atlas, I imagine you have already went through the AGA cut charts fro ECs and perhaps used the "Fancy Shape Selector" at gemaprissers.com to see how different the proportions of the stones you have selected are... true?

Since I do not know what proportions you might prefer (these are anything from short rectangle to imperfect square), I'd go for the 5th (given the smaller table and decent depth) or else look further (given that #5 has that very thin girdle and some may argue fro VG symmetry in such a high grade EC).

 

[StVincent]

Yes thanks, I did check out the chart.
I calculated the measures with the 5th stone to the others and it looks like it might be a bit girth or bottom heavy. That might have more brilliance, but Im not sure if you really get or go for a brilliance effect in a Emerald cut, specially when the 5th has a very thin to medium girdle(if that makes a difference in Emerald cuts?).

The 5th Stone is an online vendor, and the others are wholesalers in the jewel trade district.

I think I might order the 5th stone, since I have a return policy and dont know the dealer, where as the others I am somewhat familiar to who they are.

Is it ok for the depth at 64.4% to be less than the table at 63%?

Also it says on this site to look for all four sides shining somewhat the same rather than 2 sides darkening and the other 2 not. The 2nd Stone does this most.

WOW, lots of info into picking a diamond, I would think especially in an emerald cut!

 

[Hest88]

I'm a bit concerned about that very thin girdle on #5 as well. I'd also really like to get crown height info, which some experts say makes quite a bit of difference with ECs.

 

[StVincent]

ahh,

what is a good crown height for a emerald cut?
(just when you think you know enough...)

as far as the setting, it will not be a 4 prong setting. It will be like a pave(?I think)...to better describe, it will be in between 2 walls covering the longer sides of stone. I can post a picture if this site allows. Its the one in the middle that has the square stone. the one in the picture is suspension setting, But I want to have some support brindge for it alond the bottum, somewhat like an "H" shape.

 

[Nicrez]

StVincent, I agree that if you go by numbers, you will see that stone #5 is better. You don't want to lose so much of your emeral in the depth, because as most people see the emerald cut is always smaller looking than it's carat size leads one to believe.

A 1.5 carat can look like a 1.25 or smaller, just due to the cut.

Also, it is not inherenetly a sparkly stone, but has a deep colorless pool effect. As such, you have to find a good colorless stone (F is perfect for that), and you have to wtach your inclusions especially on an emerald, since it doesn't have those facets to reflect the light and hide the imperfection. Stick to VS1 or better, and even when doing so, avoid crystals, extra facets, or anything too big in the center of the stone.

Even though it's a tough find, I know you'll find it. Patience and keep posting. Pick up advice and learn as much as you can from every site you can get your hands on... Good luck and let us know what you decide!

 

[valeria101]

There are a few strange things here...

First: the AGA standard does advocate for a smaller table than depth, and I do agree. Same for the crown height: if those tables are good for anything, than they are for pointing out what measurements to look for, even if you may not scrupulously follow the numbers. Crown height is one such measure. This is why I picked up #5. Also, this is not the deepest cut in the bunch and that <65% is no crime in an EC.

About those "dark facets". The only rule of thumb about this I know of is due to Garry (at preciousmetals.com.au). Garry postulates that the culet of an EC with any chance of reflecting light similarly on all four sides, should be as long as the difference between the length and the width of the stone. There are a few more details on this in his posts. No clue about the math behind this... yet.

Another hint I can testify about from practice, is that steep pavilion facets (actually the steepest ones) are the culprits for windowing in ECs. So a stone with a more "curved" rather than angular bottom would probably look better (i.e. reflect light more consistently). I would not bet that this and the previous rule of thumb have nothing to do with each other, but there does not seem to be any standard relating light return and cut in ECs.

The one clear thing: very thin girdle may mean "brittle girdle" this is why I am having second thoughts about the stone.

Pictures... They are *very* welcome. I imagine you have tried to attach one after writing the message: they work as long as the size and format are ok (listed on the Attach File page) and there isn't anything written on the post already (including spaces, etc.).

Hope all this PS chat helps somewhat...

 

[Nicrez]

Valeria's absolutely right about the girdle, which scares me too. Is it a tension setting then? If it is, that could be a bit scary, but I am no expert on those.

I believe they grove the metal to fit the girdle and "set" the stone's edges within those channels, to make it look like it's floating. If the girdle were too thin, you may have to have deeper channels to ensure it stays in there and doesn't crack out of it. Anyone have some input on that for SV?

Also, the setting and girlde are pretty important, because if a stone like a princess has a girdle that's too thin, it can crack the corners or edges if it's not set right. Happened to a few people...

Keep looking for the perfect stone. I have a feeling you might just fnd it. If not, this stone could be a good back up, and hey, you never know!!

 

[EdSkinner]

As for the 5 stones you looked at. #1 is cut class 3 because of table. #2 is cut class 3 because of table. #3 Maybe 3a because of depth. #4 maybe 3b because of depth. #5 may be cut class 2 but because of girdle my chip during setting or with wear. These are approx cut grades because we don't have the crown height. good luck

 

[StVincent]

thanks for all the helpfull feedback and information.

I dont have actual pictures of the stone. But I might order 5th stone since I have a return policy for it. If I like it, I think it is the best one.



Where would you all suggest to find such a stone at 35-45% off Rap?


thanks!

 

[StVincent]

anyone?

 

[Nicrez]

StVincent, when you are looking for a well cut fancy shaped stone, you are getting into a rough territory. Because all the badly cut ones are out there, and people who don't know better (and don't read PS) go out and PAY 25-30 less than RAP prices, the market for a better cut stone will command a higher price, just like color or higher clarity would.

A jeweler explained it this way. A percent off RAP is what a dealer or vendor can give you from their own profit margin. Then if the stone has excellent cut or a branded cut, there is a premium percent to be ADDED to that stone. Hence, a 35% off RAP sheet stone from some internet guy with low prices can carry a 3A or better cut category stone (from the ACA charts in the PS tutorials) and can command a higher percent, equaling the RAP percent off to about 10-25% off. The finer standard of stone cut, the more likely they will put premium on it. Sad but true.

You have to shop around and some ver competitively priced people we met were USACerted, DirtCheapDiamonds, and BuyDiamonds Direct. If you want great service and excellent reports for your stone and are a bit of a perfectionist in cut, I suggest Good Old Gold. Also competively priced but more knowledgable than most out there.

Either way, there are MANY more places. These just happen to be the known ones for us in shaped stones. Good luck!!!

 

[StVincent]

thanks much for that info...In fact you mentioned one of the dealers I have been working with DCD. I tried to complete my purchase today, but it looked like no one was in the office...weird.

Your right, it is tougher to choose a Emerald cut stone online, since looking at it and its dimensions is key.

As far as price..

What is the Rap price point per carat for a Emerald that is about .83 carats, VS1, E color?

Thanks!

 

[Nicrez]

I can't always tell you the best prices, as the prices have gone up on a few stones, but I believe it was acrocss the board, so that would include under 1ct, and emeralds...

The best way to price is to try a whole bunch of different online sites. Copy the stats and put it into a spreadsheet. Chart where they are from and do a total price, price per carat, and you will have to compare based on color, clarity and then (most difficult) by cut. Here's one choice:

Blue Nile

Blue Nile is larger, so they may be a bit priceier...

Here are two from BuyDiamondDirect

Diamond 1

Diamond 2

mscssid=ECP032SDF5FN9MGJFA5KHN8HK9VCBCVA&partno=482737' target="_blank">Mondera diamond

Ashford Diamond

Solomon Brothers .94ct


These are just some I found. Of course price is contingent upon how well it's cut, what you are looking for ratio wise (longer, squareish) and whom you most trust. We paid a bit more for our stone because we wanted a well cut stone, we wanted to deal with a B&M for later upgrades and consistency of handling, convenience, and we also got a branded cut. This was worth the few extra hundred. You are armed with some choices, so the average price I saw was about $3,500. You can always try to negotiate for a stone you want. Good Luck!!!

 

[StVincent]

thanks for the info....those sites are pretty close with the specs, I think I did good. I will see the stone soon.
I will post pics soon also, since I got my hosting back up.

thanks!

 

[StVincent]

here are the pictures....

http://raffix.com/diamond.htm

 

[Demelza]

Hi St. Vincent,

I'm hoping others will come along with opinions, but here's mine. From the picture, the stone looks rather stubby and the clipped corners rather severe. Depending on your preference, this may or may not be a problem. The steps look good on the longer sides, but because of the length to width ratio (at least I think so), you don't get much step effect on the shorter sides. Does that make sense? The depth and table percentages for this stone seem right on. My only other concern would be the "very thin" girdle. Take this with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert by any means, just someone who loves emerald cuts and just bought one myself. Good luck and let us know what you decide.