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Has ANYONE had an EGL USA diamond appraised that came back with the correct color/clarity?

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alicat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2003
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I''ve heard bad things about them, but if they are so CONSISTENTLY off in color/clarity, why are they still a very popular, often used lab? Seems like if they were THAT bad, no one would buy their diamonds. I haven''t heard of any GOOD EGL USA comments on this board and wonder if they exist at all!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
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Yes, not all the reports are off. But remember that you get what you pay for... EG If you see a 1ct I/SI 2 at 2500, then you can guess that it will be closer to J-K I 1.

EGL Los Angeles reports are pretty good; they start with US 7xxxxx... Have you found any interesting stone so far?
Also, EGL's help you in making the first selection... Being most of the proportions liste, you can already avoid that super dogs that bark more than what they sparkle.
(sorry I coudn't resist
).
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
6,387
EGL is popular because the lab is not all that bad. They charge way less than GIA. They give more rapid service. They have good relations with clients. They act professional in their business dealings. They provide more cut data on their reports than the GIA.

Those are GOOD reasons why you see so many EGL reports.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There are other reasons too. We hear about loose grading and we see some evidence of it from time to time. Persoanlly I feel the EGL is in the process of tightening their lab standards, but I have zero first hand knowledge of the lab or its principals.

I will say there are many worse labs in common use by dealers and no, I will not offer their names or initials.

Considering the price differential for stones with EGL certs versus GIA and AGS certs, there is little reason to be afraid of EGL documentation. Don't buy the PAPER, but buy the DIAMOND. In essence, the market value tends to offset any real discrepancy in grading on nearly every diamond regardless of what lab's paper it comes with. Diamonds with somewhat "iffy" GIA Lab documents cost less sometimes than ones dealers feel are accurately graded. It just makes common sense to look at the total market and pricing picture rather than focus on lab accuracy alone.
 

diamondlil

Ideal_Rock
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2,405
I too had heard (and read) not-so-nice things about EGL certs. I was concerned that the diamond I recently purchased was not what it was reported to be on my EGL-USA (Los Angeles) cert. I was very anxious until I finally got an appointment with a GG (GIA) for an independent appraisal. In my case, she confirmed my stone to be a match to my certificate and also verified the specifications. I was certainly relieved. I would recommend using the EGL cert (or any certificate for that matter) as a starting point but also use your own eyes. After viewing enough stones, you'll definitely be able to pick out the right stone for you.
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
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On 7/7/2003 2:41 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

More match than don't, in my experience.

----------------
That's pretty funny, Rich...not sure you intended it that way?
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
EGl is a franchaise.

It depends on which EGL lab the diamond was graded at.


Some are better than others.

The answer is to have it checked, if you think you found the "right" stone, but remember anyone can make you think you are getting a deal if the gradings are 2-4 grades off.

Rockdoc
 

faith

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
Messages
6
EGL typically is very liberal in their grading. If you are buying your diamond from a jeweler that guarantees the value of your purchase, then it doesn't matter what the grading report says. Remember it only gives you an opinion of the color, clarity, and dimensions of the diamond. No one can grade cut because there are many ways in which to cut a diamond and achieve maximum sparkle. GIA which is the most conservative gem lab out there doesn't even recognize a grade for cut because they know that out of thousands of diamonds they have evaluated, they were able to get beautiful sparkle out of many combinations of table%, depth, ect.
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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1,160
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On 7/7/2003 11
0:27 PM diamondpro wrote:

...If you are buying your diamond from a jeweler that guarantees the value of your purchase, then it doesn't matter what the grading report says....

----------------
My first impression when I read this was that statement is total bull. But now I remember that a few folks like diamondbrokersoffl.com and goodoldgold.com offer full credit (no restrictions I'm aware of) when trading for a different stone. No "full service" local jeweler in my town does that. It is the only realistic example of "guaranteeing the value of your purchase" I can think of. What did I miss?
 

faith

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2003
Messages
6
There is a local jeweler here in Atlanta that guarantees that if you take a diamond you purchased from them to an independant appraiser, it will appraise for at least what I paid for it. If it doesn't then they will give me all my money back,or give me the difference in cash, or double the difference in store merchandise. That is what I mean by guarantee the value. If you take the time to read any grading report you will see that it says very clearly that they do not guarantee the report nor should it be considered an appraisal only an opinion at the time of inspection.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
4,924
I wouldn't characterize the EGL-USA labs as "very liberal".

If I was to characterize EGL-USA versus GIA, I would say that GIA is usually "dead on" or leaning towards the conservative side, while EGL is usually "dead on" or leaning towards the liberal side.
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
----------------
On 7/8/2003 10:11:20 PM diamondpro wrote:

There is a local jeweler here in Atlanta that guarantees that if you take a diamond you purchased from them to an independant appraiser, it will appraise for at least what I paid for it.
----------------
Given the typical retail-value appraisal that's 50-100% higher than the typical internet selling price for best-quality goods (no offense to the appraisers here
), I think the no-restriction lifetime tradeup is a much better guarantee of value.

Ever been to Mednikow in Atlanta? Jay used to occasionally hang out on these forums and was a valuable contributor. I like his business model too - sell at Blue Nile prices (not 'dirtcheap' but fair) while providing best-of-class, local customer service.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
4,924
-----------
What about consitency Rich?
-----------

They're pretty consistent. They both irritate me about equally as much.

Heh heh heh...

No, seriously, I'd say these guys are both dead-on about 80% of the time. Then the 20% they're off, the GIA usually leans towards undergrading, while the EGL usually leans to overgrading.

A difference in philosophy, perhaps? My personal opinion is that GIA is trying to maintain a conservative reputation, so if they're going to err, they usually err on the side of undergrading. EGL is more like your everyday appraiser, trying to give a stone it's full due and not being a hard-ass. When they err, it tends to be more on the liberal overgrading side.

Then you've got guys like me, who never err, are always dead-on, and are fully qualified to stand in judgement of these Goliaths.

Heh heh heh...

Rich, gathering up stones for his sling
 

DiamondsRGirlsBF

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
1
First of all, people do not buy diamonds from EGL, they just get them appraised, therefore, EGL does not profit regardless. This is the reason why EGL is strict on grading. It might not be good for the seller but is definatly good for the buyer because you don't want to overpay. Other places might be ore linient, but it doesn't mean that they're good. Another thing is that there is no CORRECT color/clarity, it can vary from person to person.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
----------------
On 12/18/2003 9:54:02 PM DiamondsRGirlsBF wrote:

First of all, people do not buy diamonds from EGL, they just get them appraised, therefore, EGL does not profit regardless. This is the reason why EGL is strict on grading. It might not be good for the seller but is definatly good for the buyer because you don't want to overpay. Other places might be ore linient, but it doesn't mean that they're good. Another thing is that there is no CORRECT color/clarity, it can vary from person to person. ----------------

I would like to know what your credentials are?
And if your in the industry who you represent?

Your post is so full of bull I don’t even know where to begin.
There is a correct color and clarity for any given diamond as established by industry standards.
While those standards are on the loose side given today’s measuring equipment but there is a correct value.
The labs do not work for consumers they are paid by the sellers.
GIA and AGS just seem to do a better job of making sure they are right than some others but they still work for the sellers if they started harshly grading diamonds the sellers would move to a different company for certs so to some extent they have to kiss up it just seems like some do so more than others.

Richard and other independent appraisers work for the consumer and I would trust them much more than any vendor or lab.

Again I ask what’s your axe your grinding here?
 

highendgems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
51
MAJOR topic and here is some good info:

EGL does not only use color match sets, they use colorimeters. For example:

We just received a 1.5 EGL USA graded stone (Dec. 2003 cert.) Color was listed as H and clarity VS2, EGL ideal cut.

We submitted the stone to a GIA lab, a GIA graduate appraiser that sold loose stones too, a jewlery store that did not sell loose stones and an indpendant colorimeter taken by a GIA graduate gemologist--Here were the results.

GIA lab: I color, VS1 clarity, Comments: exceptional cut, ball of fire
GIA appraiser that sold diamonds too: J-I color, VS2 clarity
Colorimeter (machine): H color, leaning more I than G, but definte H.
Jewelry store that did not sell loose diamonds: I to H color, VVS2 clarity, incredible cut and fire.

So it appears EGL USA undergraded the clairty and slightly was off on color.
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441


----------------
On 1/12/2004 5:26:57 PM highendgems wrote:











We submitted the stone to a GIA lab, ...

GIA lab: I color, VS1 clarity, Comments: exceptional cut, ball of fire

----------------
**A** GIA lab? There's more than one? And I've never seen a GIA report with those kinds of subjective comments on it...
 

icelady

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
1,030
Yes Lawgem,

I had the same thought. With all the GIA certs I have eyed this past six months (in my search for a diamond), I know of only two GIA labs doing certs in the US, NY and Carlsbad, CA. AND, I have never seen a GIA cert that states "exceptional cut, BALL OF FIRE" ????? PAALEESSE!!! That is insulting to most of us on this list.


Edited to say - Insulting to ALL of us on this list!
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144


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On 1/12/2004 6:10:23 PM LawGem wrote:




**A** GIA lab? There's more than one? And I've never seen a GIA report with those kinds of subjective comments on it...
----------------

LawGem....you haven't been around to see the tripe this guy is spreading, but let me tell ya....it ain't pretty.



If this guy knows one thing about diamonds (other than "they begin with letter d"), then MY DOG is a GIA grader! This Highend has shared a few choice "pearls".....among them "fluor. will HURT an H diamond", telling everyone about Verragio DIAMONDS (not settings, but center diamond stones!) and a few other winners.



Despite numerous suggestions to read so he can stop making a complete jackass of himself, he resists and persists in erroneous comments.




 

highendgems

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
51
first of all, i'll post the cert. for you to see yourself once it is scanned. the cert reads: 'ball of fire' but not exceptional cut. exceptional cut was feedback returned to use from speaking with the lab.

if you dont know that veraggio sells ideal cut loose stones under their trade name then you have no idea what is going on.

and yes, fluorescence will absolutely hurt H or better colored stones.


you call all piss off as far as im concenred, i will keep spreading the truth that will help consumers.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
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On 1/13/2004 10:32:53 AM highendgems wrote:

first of all, i'll post the cert. for you to see yourself once it is scanned. the cert reads: 'ball of fire' but not exceptional cut. exceptional cut was feedback returned to use from speaking with the lab.

----------------

If you give us the number of the cert & which GIA lab, we can view it ourselves. I know of no GIA lab that uses the term "ball of fire". GIA has strict standards of language. The term "ball of fire" would be a breach of that language at the GIA Lab.

I own several Blue Fluor stones. I can assure you the fluor does *not* hurt the stone. For the record, exactly how many H colored stone with blue fluor have you seen? Please point me to a credible reference for your information. BTW, have you read the GIA article from 1999 or 98 which in *their* study specifically found Blue Fluor stones were the preference amoung *veteran* diamond dealers.

You are not providing the consumers with correct information. You are providing consumers with misinformation. And, your penchant for reviving *old* threads is quite curious. Am I to assume that English is not your first language?
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441


----------------
On 1/13/2004 10:32:53 AM highendgems wrote:





first of all, i'll post the cert. for you to see yourself once it is scanned. the cert reads: 'ball of fire' but not exceptional cut. exceptional cut was feedback returned to use from speaking with the lab.

----------------

Sorry, pal. You have been exposed. Anyone who deals in loose diamonds knows that GIA does not grade cut and does not put descriptions of fire and brilliance on its grading reports.



Oh, don't bother photoshopping some random scan of a report to make it look that way, either. That would be falsifying a GIA grading report, and they take that sort of thing rather seriously.

 

MichelleCarmen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
15,880
----------------



you call all piss off as far as im concenred, i will keep spreading the truth that will help consumers.

----------------

Thanks, what would we do without you? Your www.humidorstoreonline.com web site is outstanding and your tanzanite eBay rings are amazing.


Michelle
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441


----------------
On 1/13/2004 11:25:18 AM fire&ice wrote:





BTW, have you read the GIA article from 1999 or 98 which in *their* study specifically found Blue Fluor stones were the preference amoung *veteran* diamond dealers.

----------------

Here's the abstract of that article, from the GIA web site:



"Some gem diamonds fluoresce, most commonly blue, to the concentrated long-wave ultraviolet radiation of a UV lamp. There is a perception in the trade that this fluorescence has a negative effect on the overall appearance of such a diamond. Visual observation experiments were conducted to study this relationship. Four sets of very similar round brilliant diamonds, covering the color range from colorless to faint yellow, were selected for the different commonly encountered strengths of blue fluorescence they represented. These diamonds were then observed by trained graders, trade professionals, and average observers in various stone positions and lighting environments. For the average observer, meant to represent the jewelry buying public, no systematic effects of fluorescence were detected. Even the experienced observers did not consistently agree on the effects of fluorescence from one stone to the next. In general, the results revealed that strongly blue fluorescent diamonds were perceived to have a better color appearance when viewed table-up, with no discernible trend table-down. Most observers saw no relationship between fluorescence and transparency."



http://www.gia.edu/gemsandgemology/18578/1851/526/back_issue_article_detail.cfm



/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif

 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
7,828
----------------
On 1/12/2004 6:10:23 PM LawGem wrote:




----------------
On 1/12/2004 5:26:57 PM highendgems wrote:






We submitted the stone to a GIA lab, ...
GIA lab: I color, VS1 clarity, Comments: exceptional cut, ball of fire

----------------
**A** GIA lab? There's more than one? And I've never seen a GIA report with those kinds of subjective comments on it...----------------

Approximately what is the turn around time for GIA to cert a stone? Must be speed of light these days.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
3-4 weeks right now.
 
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