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Has a well known vendor started LYING?

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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So, you never know, some of us might actually know who you're talking about because we've been around a while. just sayin;-). there has been some doozie threads in the archives of this forum.... (not sure if they got locked or not ...plenty have...just sayin...lol ) Like I said upthread, its up to you to name (or not) the vendor, just know that some folk will lose they minds if you do.

I've certainly done so in the past if I thought they were less than ethical, and I absolutely stand by my feelings then and now. First and foremost this is a consumer board, not a cheerleader for vendors board.

Anyway, I'm a huge advocate of being able to see gems in your environment. For instance, someone that lives in a place that gets more sunlight than in a place that dosen't might see that stone a bit different. Def. happens!! I will say for sure living in Florida where there LOTS of sunlight and I'm closer to the equator, I see more color variations in my gems than I did living in the Northeast. Also too, the fact I have LED lights throughout my home instead of incandescents or halogens does make a big difference.

@theredspinel you raise good questions about ethics and even the ethics of this board, so thank you. Good deep discusions help this board be much better what its inteded for.
 

Bron357

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I think of of the issues with selling gems and jewellery is the sometimes the fine line between “opinion and facts”.
Facts in my book are the words written on a lab report from a recognised and respected organization, while opinion is, in part, interpretation of those facts. Opinions of people who are well regarded can be taken as “facts” instead of being recognised as an opinion.
I take the colour “pigeon blood red ruby” held out by most people as the “best” colour for ruby. Yet another Pser who acquired the “dream / best” colour ruby was totally underwhelmed and quite disappointed with the dark shade that is pigeon blood red. It might be a fact that this colour is the most expensive or rarest but it isn’t a fact that it’s the “best” because best is an opinion.
Sellers are always going to try and promote their goods in the best possible light and that might include words that are opinion based, yet sound like facts. That’s the danger for the inexperienced buyer, working out what are the facts about the stone ie carat weight and clarity and what are opinions or seller hype.
 

doberman

Brilliant_Rock
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Threads like this leave a bad taste in my mouth.
“I know a vendor is being dishonest. I’m not going to say who.”

Who’s that helping? Do you want people to continue to buy from them?.
Isn't the point of this forum to educate consumers? I guess I have a low tolerance for gossip so upon further reflection I find this kind of irritating.
 

LittleRed

Brilliant_Rock
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This has me very nervous as a newbie to the colored gem world. My only crutch or lifeline is that recommend vendors list.

Are you saying just one vendor could be an issue or several? Sometimes you use the singular and sometimes plural person. I’m thinking you are talking about only one vendor, which would be better, but still probably one I’m currently looking at as a viable option.

I understand we should test our gems, but at the beginning, most gems I buy won’t be too expensive and not really worth a test, but I still want something real and natural and not tampered with other than heat. At this point I mostly rely on trust towards someone I hear is trustworthy.

Maybe update the recommended vendor list with the name/names placed at the bottom of the list or add an asterisk by the name. Just an idea. Even if you named the names here, it would eventually get buried and wouldn’t be of much help at that point.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It takes a lot of consensus to have a vendor added or deleted in that thread list. We do not take it lightly. I believe it took a court case to finally have NSC removed because we have no intention of ruining a vendor’s business unless there is strong and indisputable evidence. Another from Etsy took a long time to be removed after he was not refunding and projects were delayed for months without communication. As recommended, the list is a starting point but please read reviews and don’t hesitate to ask questions about the stones here.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
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I feel like this is stoking paranoia. I see plenty of things I don't necessarily agree with, but the role of this forum is to provide people with enough information so that they can make their own informed decision. Buy what you love, not what the sales pitch promises you will love.

I really don't want to see the recommended vendors list tampered with -- it is important not to let us all willy nilly tamper with that list.
  • Firstly for the integrity of the list -- if we compromise the guidelines governing how it can be updated then it will become less reliable into the future. What if this update improves it, but sets a precedent for someone else to change it for self promotion purposes later?
  • Secondly for the vendors who rely on traffic from this website for revenue and who turn out to be completely innocent.
It is hard to get onto that list, and there has to be a general consensus and multiple strikes to get yourself removed. The only people who edit it are established members with many years and 1000s of posts to CS. This helps make the list robust against being hijacked for personal gain.
 
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minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yeah... I won't be naming the vendor because it's pretty clear from my opening post, I'm asking whether I am going mad and imagining this previously "good" vendor outright lying now a days... or if it's really happening and others have noticed it too.

Seeing as it's a vendor at least 50% of pricescope probably visit everyday.. I was sure at least someone (heck I thought everyone would) have been saying things like "OH I know who you mean....". It hasn't happened and I'm not going to slate or accuse someone when all I have is my own feelings.

The regulars here know I'm not much about making friends or wanting to stay out of hot water... I'm in hot water most days of my life :mrgreen2: and it's a good thing I don't crave social validation. I just won't name the vendor as I don't know if they are beginning to lie or I'm being sensitive to "sales pitch".
I totally get what you mean and I for one appreciate the fact you started this thread. Before "outing" a vendor for potentially deceitful behavior, you're taking the temp/pulse of this informed group to see if others have had the same sense. If not, of course you want to keep it to yourself - don't blame you at all and think you are being diplomatic by not starting a war unnecessarily.

For what its worth, there have been times I've wanted to call "foul!" on a vendor's sales tactics, item descriptions and/or marketing pitch, but based on the posts of primarily newcomers here, I realize that they are, by and large, satisfied by these vendors so don't feel its appropriate for me to comment.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Perhaps the best option is to urge people to share their 'find's' and get eye's on them for opinions rather than just the person(s) selling the gems. Honesty in that part of the deal is always available here.........no matter who the vendor is. And I don't believe there is any vendor that has all of us eyeing all their stuff--all the time. My 'no go' vendors might surprise someone else..........
 

mellowyellowgirl

Ideal_Rock
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I think the trouble is often a lot of stones vanish pretty quickly so someone might post a stone to get advice only to have it nabbed by a lurker.
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
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I understand the OP's reluctance to out the vendor. It is however, still very frustrating to those of us not experts with coloured stones. Ask me about diamonds, I can tell you tons, but ask me about coloured stones & the conversations comes to a dead stop. I've always asked the vendors I've dealt with, what do you think, is this a keeper or not. And I go by their recommendations. If of course I'm serious about something I would post here but in truth, I've added to my diamond collection because it's just easier & less frustrating. Seems like there are less games or hurdles in the diamond realm. I would love to know who this is because I most likely have asked "you really think this stone is ok, no extinction?" If you do eventually decide to name the vendor, I will be reading this thread with definite interest. I'm looking at buying an expensive red spinel. I hope I'm not choosing to spend thousands with the person you are talking about.

Edited to ad...now that you have spread the sead so to speak, I'm now questioning everyone on the Vendors list. Maybe I need to hit up Instagram & find a new vendor. Sad about that because it was at one point, the vendor list was our way of at least starting a trusting relationship with. **sigh** I'll start a wtb thread. ;-)
 

chatoyancy

Brilliant_Rock
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I do think interpretations of online photos are subjective to a point. I bought my mom a kyanite long before I joined Pricescope. I had it shipped to her from the website. When I finally saw it, the stone did not look like I thought it would. Now that I have more experience shopping for stones online, I think I’m better at interpreting vendor photos. If I were looking today, I would pass on that stone. I can think of three vendors I purchased from without a problem (photos matching stones in hand) that other people have had issues with. However, those members typically buy more expensive stones than I do.

I bought a “lavender” spinel from a gem show. I didn’t know it would be such a chameleon. My eyes did a terrible job of choosing it because it only looks like it did when I bought it in one particular type of light (outdoors in the shade). At first I was disappointed, but then I realized I liked all of its moods.
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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I understand the OP's reluctance to out the vendor. It is however, still very frustrating to those of us not experts with coloured stones. Ask me about diamonds, I can tell you tons, but ask me about coloured stones & the conversations comes to a dead stop. I've always asked the vendors I've dealt with, what do you think, is this a keeper or not. And I go by their recommendations. If of course I'm serious about something I would post here but in truth, I've added to my diamond collection because it's just easier & less frustrating. Seems like there are less games or hurdles in the diamond realm. I would love to know who this is because I most likely have asked "you really think this stone is ok, no extinction?" If you do eventually decide to name the vendor, I will be reading this thread with definite interest. I'm looking at buying an expensive red spinel. I hope I'm not choosing to spend thousands with the person you are talking about.

Edited to ad...now that you have spread the sead so to speak, I'm now questioning everyone on the Vendors list. Maybe I need to hit up Instagram & find a new vendor. Sad about that because it was at one point, the vendor list was our way of at least starting a trusting relationship with. **sigh** I'll start a wtb thread. ;-)
Its been said, trust but verify. Even on the diamond board that mantra rings true. I will never BLINDLY trust any vendor. Even the good ones have made mistakes. How they correct those mistakes when they happen is what I concentrate mostly on. It separates a great vendor from one thats not so great.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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Yeah, OP, the title of this thread is "Has a well known vendor started LYING?" ... which to my mind does not jibe with your elaborative posts in this thread which seem to waffle about whether you are interpreting words and photos correctly.

If you believe a well known vendor has started lying to the point where you will create a thread with that exact title, personally as a PS member with roots in CS I am troubled by the fact you are purposefully posting about the lying so that you are protecting the vendor at the expense of your fellow PSers - your decision to post in this way is disappointing and more significantly frustrates the principles of this consumer board.
 

theredspinel

Brilliant_Rock
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Yeah, OP, the title of this thread is "Has a well known vendor started LYING?" ... which to my mind does not jibe with your elaborative posts in this thread which seem to waffle about whether you are interpreting words and photos correctly.

If you believe a well known vendor has started lying to the point where you will create a thread with that exact title, personally as a PS member with roots in CS I am troubled by the fact you are purposefully posting about the lying so that you are protecting the vendor at the expense of your fellow PSers - your decision to post in this way is disappointing and more significantly frustrates the principles of this consumer board.
Marymm

The title of this thread is a question. NOT a statement, nor an accusation, a question.

None the less the group mentality psyche wants any reason to bring out the pitchforks. I know this is a consumer forum hence, asking other consumers if they have noticed the same things I have. Pitchforks not needed against the vendor - because no one has.

Consumers, whether old or new, are warned to do their research into stones before buying. Who would spend a hundred dollars on anything without knowing at least some things about it first. So if some poor sap buys a stone from a vendor on the premise " its the top colour for the species" and gets burned when they realise muddy brown isn't the top colour for the species.. I cannot help that level of lack of self responsibility.

If there was any benefit to revealing the vendor, I would. However, messing with someone's livelihood to voice some musings and thoughts... especially when this would be a top 10 PS vendor and not one other person seems to have noticed what I've noticed... o_O I'm going gona do it. I won't muse about someone else's apparent lack of ethics and be a hypocrite in the same breath.

If it ever reaches the case where my opinion of the vendor becomes "lies in postings" I'll make that clear throughout the forum as I do when I sing certain vendors praises.

Speculating on gossip isn't what you do in a consumer board to protect consumers. Even if the initial opiion is my own - until it's facts, it's gossip.
 

StephanieLynn

Ideal_Rock
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This is just my own opinion but if the whole point of the thread was to have an open discussion about a particular vendor, a title more along the lines of "hey I've noticed xyz about the descriptions of this vendor's stones" would be more helpful than a sensational title. That is not putting someone's livelihood in jeopardy, it's just having a discussion in hopes of clarification which has happened before with other vendors and their business does not seem to have suffered.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude or inflammatory but I don't see the point of this thread, nothing good has come from it and now it leaves a lot of people questioning and uncertain which is kind of the exact opposite of what we are trying to accomplish right?
 

ilovegemstones

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Redspinel, it is really good that you clarified that the title of the post was a question and not an accusation. I understand why you would not want to name names. Thanks for bringing awareness to this. I have no clue who you are talking about but I am ok with that - I will just be more careful.
 

Rfisher

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theredspinel
I think Yvonne fits the bill of what you have described.
I think she's had some what look to be very pink rubies.
I think she's got a tourmaline listed as bright and open but none of the photos show that. Maybe it's a function of how I see her photos?
I think her utmost trust in her sources to repeatedly provide stats a certain way without lab report is interesting, as is assuming all future stones from that source are the same.
Does multiple listings indicating it's the last of what's available make me want to buy? No.
Even with her no questions asked return policy - especially if I lived outside the country she is in, and I bought a stone that had no report backing up her stat listing it a certain way - or even a GAL report - I'd prearrange expectations of what I'd expect if the lab I chose found otherwise.
Do I think she is being dishonest/lying in her listings? No. No more than what she was when she started. Misinformed maybe. Super busy detail losing maybe. Too trusting maybe.
Her miscommunications and misunderstandings of common industry terminology have been documented on PS. But so have been the positive resolutions.
Unless new stories come up where this hasn't happened - I don't think too much has changed in how she operates now as in the past.
 

MrsKMB

Shiny_Rock
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This thread has really bothered me. I came here to learn and to find trustworthy vendors. I fully understand that descriptions are subjective, but as a newbie, I was under the impression that vendors are on the list because they are honest and knowledgeable. I get the whole "due diligence" thing, but a certain level of confidence I had in vendors is now confusion and suspicion. :wall:

It would have been waaaay more helpful to post pictures of the stones you are referring to, then ask for opinions. You'd know if it was your imagination, monitor, etc., or if you are correct in your concerns. Plus, perhaps we could all learn something.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I feel like this is stoking paranoia. I see plenty of things I don't necessarily agree with, but the role of this forum is to provide people with enough information so that they can make their own informed decision. Buy what you love, not what the sales pitch promises you will love.

I really don't want to see the recommended vendors list tampered with -- it is important not to let us all willy nilly tamper with that list.
  • Firstly for the integrity of the list -- if we compromise the guidelines governing how it can be updated then it will become less reliable into the future. What if this update improves it, but sets a precedent for someone else to change it for self promotion purposes later?
  • Secondly for the vendors who rely on traffic from this website for revenue and who turn out to be completely innocent.
It is hard to get onto that list, and there has to be a general consensus and multiple strikes to get yourself removed. The only people who edit it are established members with many years and 1000s of posts to CS. This helps make the list robust against being hijacked for personal gain.
About the list, and I think many people overlook this, not all the vendors on there are beloved and respected by everyone here. They are recommended by some, but it is very important to research each vendor on that list here and elsewhere. I don't know if people read the disclaimer at the top of that list, but they should.

There are definitely some vendors that people do not think belong on that list, but the consensus isn't just determined by one person, but a group. I hope that clarifies the intent of the list.
 

theredspinel

Brilliant_Rock
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This thread has really bothered me. I came here to learn and to find trustworthy vendors. I fully understand that descriptions are subjective, but as a newbie, I was under the impression that vendors are on the list because they are honest and knowledgeable. I get the whole "due diligence" thing, but a certain level of confidence I had in vendors is now confusion and suspicion. :wall:

It would have been waaaay more helpful to post pictures of the stones you are referring to, then ask for opinions. You'd know if it was your imagination, monitor, etc., or if you are correct in your concerns. Plus, perhaps we could all learn something.
Hindsight :wink2:
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Don’t think it’s helpful to dump on trs. The message is to be vigilant. I second TL about the list; sounds like some people should read the disclaimer re the venders.
 

MrsKMB

Shiny_Rock
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Don’t think it’s helpful to dump on trs. The message is to be vigilant. I second TL about the list; sounds like some people should read the disclaimer re the venders.
Please don't think I was dumping on TRS. I was basically explaining my paranoia. It's so hard to have some confidence about CS and to post on a forum, but I've found everyone here to be very supportive. Some people just like to get worked-up and need controversy.

I love when people explain things here with pictures, though. It really helps me learn, and I don't have to Google every new term!
 

Cockatiel

Brilliant_Rock
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There's no need to be paranoid. If I were making a big purchase, I would just do a forum search regarding the vendor and read carefully what people had to say about their transactions and draw your own conclusions. Regarding the list, I know there are some I would never buy from on the list, not necessarily because of "lying" exactly but some vendors have communication styles and ways of doing business that I know would just aggravate me if I were doing something like a custom project. For example, missing deadlines, project taking way too long, added cost here and there compared to the original quote, gross quality control issues, etc. Those things will piss me off so much, no matter what the final product might look like, so I just avoid. Buying a stone is a different matter, perhaps easier and less communication involved, but you get what I mean.
 

arkieb1

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I've had a number of the much loved vendors on the CS list over describe and under deliver stones, one of the much loved ones on Esty repeatedly. This isn't a personal attack on the OP, but in general, I think to help new people it would also be more helpful simply stating I got this stone here is the vendor pic, here is my pic and showing examples of what the stones looks like IRL or this is how it was described this is what it actually is, rather than even need to claim anyone is lying to the public.

I see both sides of the coin it's sometimes really really difficult to take good pics of stones to sell, I've sold some of my own personal stuff and some of the stones that are average take magnificent photos and some that are magnificent look like stinkers in every single pic. I try and describe everything as honestly as possible and I don't alter my pics in any way.

That's what I have a huge problem with and have for many years that a number of much loved CS vendors on these lists alter/edit/photoshop their photos so that the stones don't have a chance of looking like the glossy sanitised versions posted on their sites. And for vendors over describing or misdescribing stones, that just sucks.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Please don't think I was dumping on TRS. I was basically explaining my paranoia. It's so hard to have some confidence about CS and to post on a forum, but I've found everyone here to be very supportive. Some people just like to get worked-up and need controversy.

I love when people explain things here with pictures, though. It really helps me learn, and I don't have to Google every new term!
MrsKMB: I'm sorry if it sounded like I was addressing it to you - I was not, just my general comments based on the totality of comments.

Please don't be intimidated. The one thing I wish I had known when I started is to return stones. Sometimes, you'll love them, sometimes you won't, and that is part of the process of buying online. You have to be comfortable returning stones if not as stated/expected/desired. Don't let vendors guilt or shame you, or imply that if you were experienced, you would know what a true gem you had. If you can do this, then you can buy from any reputable vendors with a return policy!
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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OP, I don't carry a pitchfork, and I go my own way; no herd mentality here.

In point of fact, much of what is discussed on PS is commentary and opinion ("gossip" in some people's vernacular).

I agree with others that if one wishes to engage in general musings and thoughts, perhaps one might avoid using an inflammatory thread title with words like "lying" in caps, question mark or not.

my 2 cents. done.
 

mtsapphirelovingannie

Shiny_Rock
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This thread simply reaffirms: buyer beware.

My own experience has been spotty with folks on the vendor’s list. As a new collector, I kept things that should have gone back. :oops: However, I lacked the confidence and experience to realize gems were not quite what they should have been. I will no longer purchase from several well liked vendors because their descriptions and pictures don’t meet my expectations. I don't want to deal with most likely returning their stones or a custom job that won't match my expectations.

I wouldn't say I've encountered anyone who is lying.

My advice to anyone new would be to read a lot of PS threads to educate yourself. And be sure you understand return policies and any challenges of returns between different countries :wall: (one of my most expensive mistakes).
 
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