H&A vs Triple EX vs Triple VG... differences/pros/cons?

[Anonymous6]

Okay, so I'm slowly narrowing my search down. I have it all pretty much narrowed down except this whole H&A and other qualities in the cut.

If I find a ring that has H&A, but only vg-vg-vg for example... how does that compare to one that is not H&A AGS0 but is ex-ex-ex?

For example (links below)

1.) H&A, HCA 2.3, vg-vg-vg-vg, I color
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2133649.htm

2.) No H&A, HCA 1.4, ex-ex-vg-ex, H color
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1344178.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131


What will give the better sparkle and brilliance factor? Will H&A always be better than ones that are not H&A even though they're Triple EX?

Thanks for putting up with me guys

 

[stone-cold11]

How do you know the WF ES stone is H&A? There is no hearts image.

HCA is a rejection tool not a selection tool based on 4 average inputs, many factors are left out. These 2 stones will have quite different patterning, down to personal preferences.

 

[Anonymous6]

It said YES next to H&A when searching on pricescope... it's just not whiteflash ACA

 

[stone-cold11]

Nay, probably just an input error in the PS search list.

ES are not qualified as ACA which is WF's H&A line. Unless you can see the Hearts image of the ES stone, do not assume it has a H&A symmetry.

 

[demirci]

Agreed, PS search is flawed, it links to WFs Expert selection as hearts and arrows where in fact they are not. They are usually jjust "arrows" without proper "hearts".
Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

 

[stone-cold11]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Agreed, PS search is flawed, it links to WFs Expert selection as hearts and arrows where in fact they are not. They are usually jjust "arrows" without proper "hearts".
Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Anon, I think I pointed this out on your last thread. H&As describes an optical symmetry characteristic. Yes, it is beautiful, but it is not to be taken as a sole indicator of an ideal cut stone. You can have a H&As dog, or a traditional symmetry stunner. Unless you have decided that superideal symmetry is a must, you could be excluding some great choices.

ETA Oops, posting at the same time as Stone-cold. It takes me forever to finish a post.

 

[decodelighted]

Agreed, PS search is flawed, it links to WFs Expert selection as hearts and arrows where in fact they are not. They are usually jjust "arrows" without proper "hearts".

WOW! That's an AWFULLY big FLAW!!! Wonder how many people are ending up with stones that they are assuming have H&A - but don't? Not cool.

 

[demirci]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

Perhaps I missed something here , but my comment was aimed at picking stones graded by the same lab. . Go for the cut grade that is the grading lab's highest grade. AGS and GIA are the well knowns.

 

[Amys Bling]

I think that you are the only one to determine if a H&A, Trip Ex or Trip VG is better or worse. You could see a Trip VG in person against a trip EX and think that they look the same to you...

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

Perhaps I missed something here , but my comment was aimed at picking stones graded by the same lab. . Go for the cut grade that is the grading lab's highest grade. AGS and GIA are the well knowns.

I think Deco is referring to the same lab. GIA triple EX is a cut grade with wide parameters. There are a decent number of triple EXs that proportion-wise are not good performers. You could have a stone with VG polish and symmetry with a better crown/pavilion angle combination that would outperform a stone with mediocre proportions with EX polish & symmetry. This is one reason cut fanatics tend to gravitate toward AGS 0's. The parameters for the AGS0 cut grade are a bit tighter than those defining the GIA EX cut grade.

Also, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, can't you get a VG on polish or symmetry and still get a GIA EX cut grade if the proportions are good?

 

[demirci]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

Perhaps I missed something here , but my comment was aimed at picking stones graded by the same lab. . Go for the cut grade that is the grading lab's highest grade. AGS and GIA are the well knowns.

I think Deco is referring to the same lab. GIA triple EX is a cut grade with wide parameters. There are a decent number of triple EXs that proportion-wise are not good performers. You could have a stone with VG polish and symmetry with a better crown/pavilion angle combination that would outperform a stone with mediocre proportions with EX polish & symmetry. This is one reason cut fanatics tend to gravitate toward AGS 0's. The parameters for the AGS0 cut grade are a bit tighter than those defining the GIA EX cut grade.

Also, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, can't you get a VG on polish or symmetry and still get a GIA EX cut grade if the proportions are good?

Ah I get it, well I went with AGS for that reason. Your point is very good, I thought getting an excellent is only possible if the stone scored excellent on all aspects such as cut, symmetry etc.

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

Perhaps I missed something here , but my comment was aimed at picking stones graded by the same lab. . Go for the cut grade that is the grading lab's highest grade. AGS and GIA are the well knowns.

I think Deco is referring to the same lab. GIA triple EX is a cut grade with wide parameters. There are a decent number of triple EXs that proportion-wise are not good performers. You could have a stone with VG polish and symmetry with a better crown/pavilion angle combination that would outperform a stone with mediocre proportions with EX polish & symmetry. This is one reason cut fanatics tend to gravitate toward AGS 0's. The parameters for the AGS0 cut grade are a bit tighter than those defining the GIA EX cut grade.

Also, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, can't you get a VG on polish or symmetry and still get a GIA EX cut grade if the proportions are good?

Ah I get it, well I went with AGS for that reason..

Been here for years and this still confuses me. Can't wait to see your ring, btw!

 

[yssie]

Hands down go for the excellent cut it would sparkle more and appear whiter. With your budget I wouldn't bother with VG cut go for the best.

Not necessarily so. Some GIA VG grades are better than some Ex grades. Depends on the proportions as different labs have different ranges.

Perhaps I missed something here , but my comment was aimed at picking stones graded by the same lab. . Go for the cut grade that is the grading lab's highest grade. AGS and GIA are the well knowns.

I think Deco is referring to the same lab. GIA triple EX is a cut grade with wide parameters. There are a decent number of triple EXs that proportion-wise are not good performers. You could have a stone with VG polish and symmetry with a better crown/pavilion angle combination that would outperform a stone with mediocre proportions with EX polish & symmetry. This is one reason cut fanatics tend to gravitate toward AGS 0's. The parameters for the AGS0 cut grade are a bit tighter than those defining the GIA EX cut grade.

Also, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, can't you get a VG on polish or symmetry and still get a GIA EX cut grade if the proportions are good?

Ah I get it, well I went with AGS for that reason. Your point is very good, I thought getting an excellent is only possible if the stone scored excellent on all aspects such as cut, symmetry etc.

two short and helpful articles:
- https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show/
- https://www.pricescope.com/journal/camera_may_not_lie_it_tells_different_truths

 

[stone-cold11]

Yap, GIA only drops a cut grade if symm or polish is 2 grades below the cut grade.

Even if both are GIA graded, proportion is proportion, no matter which lab grades it. I would for example prefer a stone with T 57, CA 33, PA 40.8, which gets a VG in cut grade than a stone with T 57, CA 34, PA 41.4, which gets a GIA Ex in cut grade, everything else being the same.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Agreed, PS search is flawed, it links to WFs Expert selection as hearts and arrows where in fact they are not. They are usually jjust "arrows" without proper "hearts".

WOW! That's an AWFULLY big FLAW!!! Wonder how many people are ending up with stones that they are assuming have H&A - but don't? Not cool.

Hi demirci,
Thank you for bringing this question to our attention. The pricescope search does not appear to be flawed- but some clarification on our part may be helpful.

The Whiteflash Expert Selection (ES) category does include H&A rounds, as stated on our diamond landing page. They are tagged as such in the pricescope upload thus appearing in the H&A search results. In keeping with our longstanding practice, hearts images are posted to our website only for ACA branded diamonds. However, hearts images are available for all H&A ES diamonds upon customer request.

Among the many requirements for ACA, perfect hearts patterning is one of the hallmarks of the brand and must conform to our strict standards, which are posted to our website. Many of our diamonds that fall just outside ACA parameters also have good H&A patterning and are comparable to those offered by leading H&A dealers. We allow a little more leeway for patterning variance on ES diamonds, in keeping with broader industry standards for H&A.

Thank you again for alerting us to something we probably need to better communicate.

Sincerely,
Bryan