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H&A visible with the naked eye? Please help!

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dr_mojo

Rough_Rock
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Sep 28, 2008
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Hey folks - first post here so please be kind and shower me with your knowledge!

You know the deal - I''m looking for the ring, and it''s all about finding the right diamond.

My girlfriend is Japanese - her ring size is 4.25 on the American scale. We''ve talked about the ring, and she says that she doesn''t want anything too big, although from what I''ve read here, such a sentiment expressed in good faith could soon change once she starts wearing the thing!

I want to get a classic solitaire setting (I have the setting and diamond vendor in mind), and my budget is about $5000 absolute tops for the diamond. Less would be ideal, but I want to get the daddy.

I have learned so much from you here its fantastic, but I would love it if you could help me even more by clearing up some of the following points for me:

* I really want a colourless diamond. PSers often talk about D-E colours together, and my feeling from the posts is that there is a discernable difference going down to F-G. This is slightly confusing as the certificates talk about DEF in the same bracket but that isn''t the sense I get here. D-E is ''ice white''; F is not. Would you recommend I plumped with a D-E rather than the F, or would I be wasting my hard - earned dough? I believe that I may have read somewhere that asian skin colour might come into play here - would i be throwing money away? (I know this is a very subjective question but I asked it anyway - sorry)!

* As for clarity, because I''ll be doing this sight unseen I won''t drop below VS2 although I like the idea of getting a VS1 if the price is right.

* I guess this is the main question - I love the H&A pattern. I''m sure my girl will love it too - it''s truly beautiful. Some of the rings posted up here are truly breathtaking. The ones that speak to me the most are the solitaires where the H&A are most visible. In my budget, looking around vendor sites, I can come close-ish to a carat with specifications close to my ideal ones above. My major question is: will it be possible to see H&A with the naked eye in a smaller (.75 - .95) diamond? If not, then please let me know! But if it is possible, does the visibility of the H&A pattern change with each individual diamond? If so, then I will need to ask my vendor to take a look at similar stones and give me the feedback. The H&A pattern is important to me largely because I have been seduced by the pics posted here!!! Once I receive info about the H&A, I plan to choose the diamond which scores highest on the brilliance, scintillation and fire charts.

I would welcome any input at all about any of the above. many thanks for taking the time to read my post, and thanks to all PSers for your great contributions to the site - I have been spending hours here most days over the months since I''ve started saving my cash!

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P.S. Naturally I''m wanting an ideal cut - as for the polish symmetry grades, I''m thinking EX on symmetry and VG/EX on polish. I take it the VG on polish is no biggie?
 
Yes you can see the arrows (but not the hearts because they are on the underside) of a super ideally cut stone in a .75. Not under all lights, but they can certainly be seen. My best friend has a .73 ACA from Whiteflash and you can easily see them. But be aware that some vendors call stones "H&A" when the pattern resembles it at all. To get the best pattern you want to make sure it is truly a H&A stone.

And personally I think you are wasting your money with a D or E...and F is more than white enough IMO...
 

Hey - thanks for your reply! Thats great to know. If I can get visible H&A at 3/4 I''m well chuffed.


I hear what you say about the F. It''s just bugging me now as I''m on the verge of making my buy!

I''ll be going for a platinum setting incidentally.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 2:35:48 PM
Author: dr_mojo

Hey - thanks for your reply! Thats great to know. If I can get visible H&A at 3/4 I''m well chuffed.



I hear what you say about the F. It''s just bugging me now as I''m on the verge of making my buy!


I''ll be going for a platinum setting incidentally.

Really, it''s gotta be "mind clean" for you too, so if getting a higher color will make you at peace then it is worth the money to you ya know?
 
F is more than white enough (and IS considered colorless)! I have an H that shows no tint at all! In fact, I was positive I had to have a colorless diamond too, until I saw how white the near-colorless ones are in an ideal cut. I wouldn''t think you''d have a problem seeing the arrows in a 3/4 carat, but if you want to go bigger to be sure, you could drop lower in color to stay within your budget. My H looks icy to me and I''m really pale. It should look even whiter on her skin tone! I''ll post a picture of mine for reference. On the other hand, some people would much rather have a D,E, or even F because they are more rare. It''s really personal preferance, but either way you''ll end up with something beautiful if you go with a great cut!

arrows5ab.JPG
 
And here''s a little further back but still seeing the arrows.

(I''m still excited enough about my diamond to post pictures every chance I get
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Hope this was helpful.)

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Regarding color keep in mind that there is a variation even amongst grades. A low F is very close to a high G. And a well cut stone will not show color as much as a poorly cut one. I think a good percentage of PSers have found that the D E stones to be overkill because unless they are side-by-side few of us can tell the difference once set. Some people can see the difference and of those some prefer the creamier colors or want to spend the budget on size or clarity over color. G S1 seems really popular when budget is a concern but you want as large of a stone as possible. and this is all assuming that your first priority is a beautiful cut with a H&A pattern from a vendor with an upgrade policy.
 
Kelli: WOW! Thats an H? Just goes to show how colourless it can look with a superb cut. What size stone do you have?
 
The Japanese hold colourless H&A stones in high regard, I am sure you know more about it than me, but I believe it''s a cultural thing.

For that reason, I would suggest you stick with a true and reliable H&A brand, ACA from WF. Their H&A is based on the traditional Japanese pattering I believe. Just for mind clean reasons.

I would say from reading a lot of posts from Asian buyers here (no offence meant at all, please don''t anyone think I am being racist, I am certainly not!), they tend to steer towards the D and E colour stones, with a lower clarity of VS.

I think you could find a D-E colour stone, VS clarity in the size you are after from WF.

Check out www.whiteflash.com

Good luck
 

Thanks for your replies. As for my girlfriend, I don''t think she will be bothered by the ''purity'' thing so much, although I have met a rich Japanese woman who only buys D - IF stones. She loves to talk about the specs - but none of her diamonds impress like the ones I see here. She doesn''t have the PS knowledge either.


And Kelli, thanks for posting pics of that sexy rock! That''s EXACTLY the kind of ring I''m looking for! It looks wonderful - how big is the diamond and the ring size? A fair bit bigger than a 75 pointer I''ll wager!

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I''ve been using this table when considering diamond sizes. I''d like to get inside the golden range if I can! https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/size-of-solitaire-for-small-fingers.21362/

I was looking to be around 0.6mm and hoping to be able to see some great arrows at that size - by the sounds of it, I should be able to!
 
*sorry, thats 6mm - I doubt I would be able to see the arrows in a 0.6mm diameter diamond!
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We knew what you were on about
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My stone is a 0.8ct ACA and you can see the arrows with a naked eye. In some lights you will see silver arrows, and in other lights, darker ones. I just love it!!!!

Is your budget for stone only or with setting? We could help you find something if you like
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Just a warning about seeing those arrows - I recently purchased a 0.70 ct F VS1 Crafted by Infinity diamond. I know the arrows are there, but the silly diamond sparkles soooo much that I have trouble seeing them.
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FlyGirl,

Im not sure if you''re exaggerating or not, but can you really see the pattern in normal light? Reason for asking is that I''m bound to get a .70ct stone and I would like to know if its really worth getting an H&A at that size.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 10:26:15 PM
Author: DLFB
FlyGirl,


Im not sure if you''re exaggerating or not, but can you really see the pattern in normal light? Reason for asking is that I''m bound to get a .70ct stone and I would like to know if its really worth getting an H&A at that size.

You can''t see it in every lighting condition (especially when it is sparkling like crazy! But yes, you can easily see the H&A at that size. My best friend has a .73 ACA from WF and you can certainly see the arrows.
 
how far can you see the arrows from? i know a .70ct isnt a 4ct, but is it fairly visible, say, when you're sitting down and you try to glance at your stone?


I've been constantly checking the sizes of .70-.75ct, and I've noticed they can range from 5.65 x 5.6 x 3.xx upwards.that's the reason why I'm considering a lower color grade in return for a bigger stone, even if it gives me a .03-.05 difference in size
 
Date: 11/13/2008 10:26:15 PM
Author: DLFB
FlyGirl,

Im not sure if you''re exaggerating or not, but can you really see the pattern in normal light? Reason for asking is that I''m bound to get a .70ct stone and I would like to know if its really worth getting an H&A at that size.
It really depends on the light. If you work at it, you can find the arrows, but more often than not you only see some of them. Remember, in real life, the diamond is moving and flashing constantly. If you think that the arrows will look exactly like the static photos you love, you could be disappointed. They hide a bit more than that.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 10:54:39 PM
Author: DLFB
how far can you see the arrows from? i know a .70ct isnt a 4ct, but is it fairly visible, say, when you''re sitting down and you try to glance at your stone?



I''ve been constantly checking the sizes of .70-.75ct, and I''ve noticed they can range from 5.65 x 5.6 x 3.xx upwards.that''s the reason why I''m considering a lower color grade in return for a bigger stone, even if it gives me a .03-.05 difference in size

As FG said it depends, and you can''t see them like you can see them in a static picture. But for example if my friend and I are sitting at a coffee shop and the lighting is right I can see her arrows from across the table.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 10:02:01 PM
Author: Fly Girl
Just a warning about seeing those arrows - I recently purchased a 0.70 ct F VS1 Crafted by Infinity diamond. I know the arrows are there, but the silly diamond sparkles soooo much that I have trouble seeing them.
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Punish the little sucker. Lock it in a dark room for 24 hours - they
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hate that.

If that works, let me know Fly Girl, we Cut Nerds monitor diamond behavioural patterns.
if it does not work then poke a 1/2inch hole in a sheet of copy paper and sneak up and peak at the little critter before it sees you coming.
You can also take voyeur photo''s thru the hole in the paper and show us here. It might help to face the paper toward a window or bright light source.
 
Thanks guys!
 
My diamond is .53 and I can see the arrows occasionally in something that small. I agree G or H is very white especially in an ideal cut stone. Kelli - your diamond is GORGEOUS and great arrow shots.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 4:12:28 PM
Author: puravida
Kelli: WOW! Thats an H? Just goes to show how colourless it can look with a superb cut. What size stone do you have?
Thank you puravida! My stone is 1.35. It used to be an I color 1.44, but I had it recut by Whiteflash and then it went up a color grade. I guess it must be right on the border of H and I. I really don''t see any color in it, but I didn''t even before the recut either.
 
Date: 11/13/2008 9:31:21 PM
Author: dr_mojo

Thanks for your replies. As for my girlfriend, I don''t think she will be bothered by the ''purity'' thing so much, although I have met a rich Japanese woman who only buys D - IF stones. She loves to talk about the specs - but none of her diamonds impress like the ones I see here. She doesn''t have the PS knowledge either.



And Kelli, thanks for posting pics of that sexy rock! That''s EXACTLY the kind of ring I''m looking for! It looks wonderful - how big is the diamond and the ring size? A fair bit bigger than a 75 pointer I''ll wager!

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I''ve been using this table when considering diamond sizes. I''d like to get inside the golden range if I can! https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/size-of-solitaire-for-small-fingers.21362/

I was looking to be around 0.6mm and hoping to be able to see some great arrows at that size - by the sounds of it, I should be able to!
LOL no problem dr. mojo! And thank you for the compliments!
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It''s 1.35 and my ring size is 5.25. I would definitely think you could get into the golden range. Have you checked out any ACAs yet?

As far as seeing the arrows, mine is a little bigger, but I really can see the arrows from a regular viewing distance. In certain kinds of lighting, you''ll get nice colorful flashes from the arrows. In a dimly lit room, like going to bed with the tv on, the arrows seem to glow white and the rest of the stone goes dark. It really is pretty!
 
Date: 11/14/2008 1:01:29 AM
Author: marcyc
My diamond is .53 and I can see the arrows occasionally in something that small. I agree G or H is very white especially in an ideal cut stone. Kelli - your diamond is GORGEOUS and great arrow shots.
Thank you!!! Love your avatar!
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hey Dr_mojo, you have been given great advice. I just wanted to chime in on the argument that you should be safe sacrificing some colour to max your budget/size if thats what you want.
Kelli's H is a great example, and here is a pic of my K colour for you. It never looks anything but white - in some light (mainly dim indoor lighting), it may show a lil "warmth", but its not unpleasant at all.
Of course, this low is not for everyone, but you will be fine with a G/H imho.
hth
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fyi - this is a Isee2 diamond from GOG, which are a strictly cut "branded" H&A. I have been extremely happy with it, and reccommend GOG in a heartbeat. You will also love WF ACA from the sounds of it.
I also agree that you won't have a problem seeing arrows in a ~0.75-0.8, but just remember they are not visible all the time even in larger stones. Due to the great cut, what you do get is all the gorgeous sparkle and fire !
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Thanks to all for the advice and the sumptuous diamond pictures. Was great to wake up this morning and see so many of you had taken the time out to help me in this thread! It''s pretty humbling to be honest - you''re all so generous!

I''ll be back next week with some more questions regarding a couple of specific diamonds - I will no doubt be seeking your expert opinions then! I''m getting pretty excited now - I''ve been lurking on here for so long and saving hard to afford this baby... I can''t wait to crack on and get the ring on her finger!

Much obliged to all of you!

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Looking forward to seeing the stones you look at. Happy shopping!

Btw arjunajane I LOVE your K colored stone! I''d love to see it IRL!
 
Date: 11/14/2008 10:57:02 AM
Author: dr_mojo
Thanks to all for the advice and the sumptuous diamond pictures. Was great to wake up this morning and see so many of you had taken the time out to help me in this thread! It''s pretty humbling to be honest - you''re all so generous!

I''ll be back next week with some more questions regarding a couple of specific diamonds - I will no doubt be seeking your expert opinions then! I''m getting pretty excited now - I''ve been lurking on here for so long and saving hard to afford this baby... I can''t wait to crack on and get the ring on her finger!

Much obliged to all of you!

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Just let us know if you need any more help!
 
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