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H&A diamonds - any visible differences?

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
I was just wondering whether there is any visible difference (to the naked eye) between a H&A diamond and a normal diamond?

My fiance proposed with a 0.53ct HOF diamond which cost a fortune for the size / quality of the diamond!! I then went back to the jeweller with the diamond and picked a setting. 6 weeks letter, i got my complete ring!

I was looking through the forums and showed him some pictures some users have posted of their rings with H&A diamonds and you can see the arrows in the photos. I have tried and tried to see the arrows in my diamond, my sister has a professional SLR camera and we tried to capture a photo with the arrows but with no success..

My fiance is starting to freak out that perhaps he got ripped off.. (he definitely did, I could have had a +1ct decent stone for that money) but I like to think that the jeweler he bought it from is a reputable jeweller that wouldn't set a different diamond!

So if anyone has any experience and can tell the difference with a H&A diamond, please let me know. i'm thinking I might just have to get it appraised by an independent jeweller (i'm currently in the process of re-setting the diamond, I chose the wrong setting for the diamond, but I want to make sure the same diamond ends up in my new setting).

Many thanks!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
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9,667
it depends on what you define as a "normal" diamond.

the arrows will not appear black like they do in some photos...they may appear more silvery. try leaning over your diamond to see them.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
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57,942
If it is a HOF diamond, there will be arrows. Can you take some close-up photos of the diamond? The way most of us get hearts images is to hold our hand up near a window so that the light is coming behind our hand (not shining on the stone) and then take the photo. That usually makes the arrows show up.

But regardless, you can easily take the diamond and the lab report to a reputable jeweler and they can tell you if the stone matches the cert. And you can also buy an idealscope to more easily see the arrows.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
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11,025
If you are unsure, bring it to an appraiser and they can help to determine if your stone matches the report and is indeed the correct stone.
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
I have this photo, not very upclose tho, the diamond does have a lot more sparkle than in this photo, but then all diamonds sparkle don't they??

IMG_3463.jpg
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,214
As a HOF diamond, I'd be surprised it it weren't H&A. It's hard to see from that picture...any way you can zoom in?
 

minmin001

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
2,047
If it's HOF diamond you should be good. I know what you mean though... I bought a H&A diamond (based on James Allen) but I just can not see or take any pic. like how those other people did to show them.. I'm just not a skilled PSer yet I guess :bigsmile:
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
all HoF stones will have a HoF logo inscribed on the girdle.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
23,538
silviagbc|1312767159|2986153 said:
I was just wondering whether there is any visible difference (to the naked eye) between a H&A diamond and a normal diamond?

My fiance proposed with a 0.53ct HOF diamond which cost a fortune for the size / quality of the diamond!! I then went back to the jeweller with the diamond and picked a setting. 6 weeks letter, i got my complete ring!

I was looking through the forums and showed him some pictures some users have posted of their rings with H&A diamonds and you can see the arrows in the photos. I have tried and tried to see the arrows in my diamond, my sister has a professional SLR camera and we tried to capture a photo with the arrows but with no success..

My fiance is starting to freak out that perhaps he got ripped off.. (he definitely did, I could have had a +1ct decent stone for that money) but I like to think that the jeweler he bought it from is a reputable jeweller that wouldn't set a different diamond!

So if anyone has any experience and can tell the difference with a H&A diamond, please let me know. i'm thinking I might just have to get it appraised by an independent jeweller (i'm currently in the process of re-setting the diamond, I chose the wrong setting for the diamond, but I want to make sure the same diamond ends up in my new setting).

Many thanks!


Ditto DF, if you are worried about a switch get it professionally appraised by an independent appraiser
www.najaappraisers.com
www.appraisers.org
www.ags.org

If you want to see your stone's hearts and arrows patterns you'll have to look at it through a hearts and arrows scope, your HoF dealer should be able to help you.

All facets - including the pavilion mains that are those arrow shafts - are easier to see in larger stones. I can't make out the arrows in my 0.4ct sidestones IRL without quite a bit of manoeuvring, the perfect lighting, etc. and I know they have thick arrows, I've photographed it! On the other hand I can pretty much always see arrows in my centerstone. So I am not surprised that you haven't yet found clear black arrows of the sort that you see in photos in your 0.5ct, especially if your stone has longer lower girdle facets - so skinnier mains

To highlight the arrows in photos try cutting a hole just big enough for your camera lens in a sheet of white paper. Insert the lens through the hole so that the stone is reflecting only white paper and the black lens, not the camera body, your clothes, etc. A tripod or at the very least a stack of books to balance the camera body on helps!
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
Thanks everyone! I phoned an independent gemologist and she said she'll have a look for me and tell me my serial number. So i popped in on my lunch break and she couldn't see the serial number as it was covered by one of the prongs, but she could see "hearts" written so I'm guessing it's the start of the hearts on fire logo. She had a good look at it, and showed me the arrows under the diamond scope and they were quite nice and well defined. She said the diamond was 'under graded' pariculary with the inclusions, it's meant to be a SI1 with a slight inclusion that was shown on my certificate but she couldn't find it at all. Hopefully that's not a bad sign!! And she said it looked quite white, no yellow tones, it's a G colour (should that have some yellow tones)?
Anyway she did all this quickly and free for me, so I might set an appointment for a proper valuation, however if she can't see the serial number that takes half the point away..
She gave it a good clean and it's really sparkly!! :twirl: I think my 6 prong setting with a 'collar' makes it really hard to clean the diamond at home. Might have to consider a 4 prong setting.. for easy access

Thanks for the photo tips as well, although that wasn't my main concern, I just thought that maybe since there's so many photos with arrows, it was an easy achievement and got me worried why I couldn't do it!
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
OK so now i'm worried again :nono: why would the microscopic serial number be covered by one of the prongs?? That seams like a very bad mistake on behalf of the jeweller. How am I to check the authenticity of the diamond if it's unique serial number is covered by a prong? It defeats the purpose!

My other issue, now that I think about it, the gemologist who examined my diamond couldn't see any inclusions!! Not that i'm complaining about a lack of inclusions, but on my ID card it shows the inclusion clearly and it's graded a SI1!! I could understand if it was a VVS1 that she might struggle to find it, but for a SI1..? Are SI1 inclusions that hard to find by a qualified gemologist with a diamond scope?!

Anyway, it could all be coincidental errors right? Hidden serial number, lack of inclusions..

I''m booking in for a proper appraisal, but the diamond will need to be removed from the setting to view the serial number! :angryfire:

Sorry about the venting!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
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24,605
I think you should get a real appraisal. I wouldnt be too worried about why the serial number is covered by a prong. I'm sure
the jeweler set the stone so the arrows were a certain way and not blocked by prongs. I'm surprised that the jeweler
couldnt find the SI1 inclusion though. I'm sure the appraiser will be able to find it. Just try to relax until you can get in for
the appraisal.

Edit - btw, I can see arrows in my little 16 point stones (and in my BGD .46 stone). It does take a lot of moving around
and looking at it head on. Make sure your stone is really clean too.
 

Sundial

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
5,532
I think it will be worth having the stone removed from the setting and properly evalued by an idependent professional for your piece of mind. I have a HOF three stone ring and I can clearly see arrows in each of the diamonds in the right lighting. I don't think the serial number being under a prong was probably anything deliberate on the part of your jeweler though. I just hope it all turns out as it should because you do have a beautiful ring and you should be able to enjoy wearing it!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
23,538
1. Unless you specified that you wanted engravings to be visible, they might have set the stone to best hide the inclusion(s) under or near a prong - which may have resulted in hidden serial numbers.

2. If the inclusion is well-hidden by a prong it won't be visible face-up, and clarity grading is done face-up - unless she looked through the side the setter may have just done a good job of his job. Big ditto - you need a real appraisal - from someone *you pay*. People working for other people, selling their own stones, doing a job for free as a favour - have other, potentially conflicting interests, and at this point I think it's as much a mind-clean thing as anything else.

Insure the ring and try not to worry about damage - unless something goes very wrong your setting and stone will be just fine 8)
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
Thanks everyone! I'm sure I'm over reacting, anyway if I could ask for one more piece of advice..

Where can I get some sort of idea about the cut grading, I have tried the cut class tool here on PS however, i'm limited with the information available on my cerificate. This is what I've been given on my HOF certificate

Color G
Clarity SI1
Weight 0.535
Symmetry ID
Polish ID
Fluorecense N
Girdle THINMED
Table 55
Depth 60.9
PavAngle 40.7
Measurements 5.24 - 5.27 x 3.20

HOF claim they are the worlds most perfectly cut diamond.. I beg to differ on this one.. :Up_to_something: Call it paranoia, gut instict,whatever! but since i've started researching new settings for my diamond, and trying on heaps of different rings with different diamonds, something doesn't feel right.. And I live in Australia, so I dont' have access to a GIA lab, infact the number of certified gemologists around is quite limited, and they all have a week long waiting list..

In the meanwhile, assuming my diamond does indeed match my certificate, are the measurements provided above what one would expect from the so called "worlds most perfectly cut diamond"?

Thanks again to everyone!!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
23,538
silviagbc|1312857299|2986906 said:
Thanks everyone! I'm sure I'm over reacting, anyway if I could ask for one more piece of advice..

Where can I get some sort of idea about the cut grading, I have tried the cut class tool here on PS however, i'm limited with the information available on my cerificate. This is what I've been given on my HOF certificate

Color G
Clarity SI1
Weight 0.535
Symmetry ID
Polish ID
Fluorecense N
Girdle THINMED
Table 55
Depth 60.9
PavAngle 40.7
Measurements 5.24 - 5.27 x 3.20

HOF claim they are the worlds most perfectly cut diamond.. I beg to differ on this one.. :Up_to_something: Call it paranoia, gut instict,whatever! but since i've started researching new settings for my diamond, and trying on heaps of different rings with different diamonds, something doesn't feel right.. And I live in Australia, so I dont' have access to a GIA lab, infact the number of certified gemologists around is quite limited, and they all have a week long waiting list..

In the meanwhile, assuming my diamond does indeed match my certificate, are the measurements provided above what one would expect from the so called "worlds most perfectly cut diamond"?

Thanks again to everyone!!


Nothing off in those numbers.

But, if after looking at tons of stones you find something "off" about yours, you may just prefer a different look that results from different types of proportions! The type of stone you've got is a general crowd pleaser - but you may be one of the few who are sensitive enough to notice differences - and who prefer something other than 'general crowd pleaser' appearance/light return. Do you have more info on the stones that you especially liked?
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
Thanks again! Gosh this forum is amazing!! :)

It's not that I don't like it, I love it, it sparkles and it's white and it's a decent size for my short stubby finger, pitty they put a 3mm band around a 5mm stone but that can be fixed easily! I just don't see any difference between mine and a decent ideal cut diamond,similar colour (i noticed the difference between a D colour, and mine, but couldn't notice anything between an F and G, infact a G in a similar size was much sparklier even after a professional clean of my diamond) and the whole point of paying twice as much for a HoF diamond is that it's super sparkly..? from seeing people's photos and looking at numerous diamonds, I'm not entirely convinced mine is a true HoF diamond. The only way I'll know for sure is to get it properly evaluated, the problem is they put the prong directly over the serial number, so to check the number, the prong needs to be removed which is all extra hassle that I didn't need. The fact that the gemologist couldn't find the inclusion, said it's very white, and well cut (not perfectly cut-HoF logo) makes me think that the SL1, G colour, HoF cut is either under graded, or perhaps the jeweller that set my stone in it's current setting, put a similar quality one but not the true HoF one. I could be abit paranoid, I have booked an appraisal on Friday so both my fiance and I will be more at ease once we know for sure it's the right one. Overall, we had a bad experience with the jeweller that sold us the HoF stone and custom made the setting so our trust in them at the moment is below 0!
 

AmeliaG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
880
I've seen HoF diamonds in person; they look spectacular, though probably overpriced.

Is this a mind-clean thing for you in that you don't think what you got is worth the price your FI spent on it? You do pay a premium for the brand and its up to you to decide if there is something in the ring that makes it worth it to you.

Do you have the option to return the diamond and get a generic H&A instead? A nonbranded H&A may be more mind-clean to you. You can go up in size if you want but you don't have to - you can just pocket the money for something else.

If you don't have the option to return it, the HoF diamond is still a great quality diamond, I'd just concentrate on getting the setting that shows it off best.

Edited to add: Looks like you don't trust your jeweler either. Arrgh! That's got to suck! It doesn't look like he tried to swindle you but if you don't trust him, it doesn't matter. I'm hoping for your peace of mind you can return the diamond and start afresh. If not, hopefully some other members with more experience can chime in.
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
Hi Amelia, I have had the ring for over a year now, but I've never really focused on it much until recently, I always thought it was beautiful and still do, except now I'm noticing more things since I've started looking around. The diamond is beautiful no doubt about it, even though i can't pick the arrows with the naked eye no matter how much I try but I understand now that it's difficult for such a small diamond so that's fine, the setting, it's crap. It's not symetrical the 'spirals' around it, are not identical, one is higher than the other, even the 6 prongs holding the diamond aren't equally spaced apart, once you notice it, it's hard to ignore it! :nono: then it's too thick, and it upsets me because they promised my fiance that they would sit down with me and draw the setting I wanted, in the end I showed them the type of ring I wanted and they took my diamond and said it would be ready in 6 weeks. I was all new to this and excited and thought that they would know what they are doing.. That's my fault in the end, I should have been more careful and asked for specifications dimensions etc.. Lesson learned!

Yes HoF are overpriced, but that's the same with any brand name really, you are paying for the brand and all the marketing costs that come with it, I just hope it is indeed the HoF diamond, I don't want another one (not yet anyway)I just found it abit peculiar that the serial number was hidden, couldn't see the inclusion, or the arrows unless u looked through the ideal scope.. So I think once I have the appraisal / valuation done, I'll be ready to reset it - i didn't want to hand it over, unless I could check the serial number before and after the reset.
 

AmeliaG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
880
Ah, I see. I'm sure the appraisal will set your mind at ease. Have fun picking out a new setting, preferably with a new jeweler; the diamond looks gorgeous from the pics I see.
And about the brand premium, you can look at it this way. If your FI didn't know much about diamonds when he bought the ring, the brand name and the marketing at least alerted him to cut quality which is the most important to the 4Cs and you got a great cut diamond. Marketing can be a good thing if it provides important useful information. A lot of couples where the guy buys an e-ring without a lot of knowledge aren't as lucky.
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,214
silviagbc|1312864412|2986987 said:
Yes, Anthonys Fine Jewellery, listed on the HoF website.

Then I don't think you have to worry about it not being a true HoF or the right stone. I guess a vendor could make a mistake or have an oversight.
 

silviagbc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
30
Found the arrows!! This is the only way I could photograph them with my crap camera! Sooo relieved... now to pick a new setting :???:


IMG_0485.jpg
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
Great photo.
 

Sundial

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 14, 2005
Messages
5,532
I'm so glad that you were able to capture those lovely arrows! That picture should certainly make you feel better about your diamond. A new setting, more to your liking, should help as well. It is a gorgeous stone.
 

MrsBettyBoop

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
559
You go girl! That's so awesome (I had to do the same thing!) looking at all these pictures on PS can drive a girl crazy. :lol:
 
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