Green Tourmaline Men''s Ring

[Mara]

Last nite I was watching the Gem Shopping Network (actually a very cool show for educational purposes if you can manage not to call in and buy some of the pieces they have...hee hee) and I saw this amazing men''s ring.




It was about 11 carats green tourmaline which looked to be cut in an step/emerald type cut and it was a beautiful rich dark green. Looked eye clean from what I could tell. It was set into a yellow gold (14k?) setting with a tiny round diamond on each side. See the pictures below. These were taken off the TV so they are grainy but I wanted to capture the images so I could at least have something to work with.




This is my thought. First off the ring on TV was way too expensive! It was $2600. I was thinking I could replicate the ring with a smaller tourmaline (11c is too big, see picture on man''s hand below) for my lovely fiance Greg. Maybe for a wedding gift for next year or even for his Bday next August.




So I went onto Multicolour.com to see what they had in the way of natural green tourmalines...they had one but it''s too small I think. It''s almost a carat and its about 6 x 5 mm. I am thinking that this stone for Greg''s ring should be around 8 x 9 or similar...with 8 being the max...even a 8 x7 would be better since it looks like the width of the ring is the width of the stone itself (in this case would be the 7mm). I wouldn''t want to go any larger than 7 or 8mm on Greg''s hand because I think that would be TOO much.




That said, what are people''s thoughts on having this custom made? The stones don''t look that expensive at all, Multicolour''s 1c one is around $10 and they have some other 4c ones that are about $180 or so. So how much would the setting be? It looks relatively simple but is very commanding, and I would get the small diamonds from WF and they would be ACA melee which are pretty cheap in the scheme of things (for 2 .03c or similar would be around $50). Doing this in 14kg...any rough estimates from any experts? Maybe around $600? Maybe a little more?




Hmmmm I like this project. Could be fun.

 

[Mara]

Here's the similar picture from Multicolour, this is the 1c one so it's too small, but does this look like the style of stone used in the picture? According to MC it's a slightly included octagon step cut medium green tourmaline from Goma, Congo and is $10. So if I wanted something like this but more around 3c or 4c....hard to find? MC doesn't have any others in this shape, though they do have a paler radiant rectangular stone that is 4c and 11 x 8 mm for $150 but I don't like the color as much as the darker greens.




Also, Greg has bluish green eyes and blues bring out his eyes beautifully. Any similar type BLUE stones that would have deep color that would not be too pricey? I like that the tourmalines look a bit like emeralds but don't command that same price. Any similar blue stones that may work for this ring instead of a green tourm?

 

[Mara]

Here is another one from MineralMiners.Com that actually looks like it could nicely fit the bill. Thoughts? Oh BTW I want a natural, untreated stone.

 

[valeria101]

One more colored gem post!

Here are a few tourmalines and one comment:

For the custom ring to resemble the one in the picture, the stone has to be approx. as long (since it will be placed accross) as the finger of the wearer is wide, take a few milimeters. If not so, the sides of the ring will not go upward towards the stone (as the third picture shows) but rather tapper on the front of the ring around the finger to meet the stone. Also, I see that the stone in odel ring (pisture 2) is suspended a bit by the prongs rather than resting girdle flush with the ring: this was feasible given the serious depth (and weight) of that stone. I thin 2ct tourmaline will float in mid air in this setting (assuming it would have the right surface). Oh, and the price of that ring? I don't get it at all - the stone looks like not a big deal to me at all and 10 ct green tourmalines are common. Chrome tourmaline? yeah, it would be rarer but that very deap shade is not expensive. Here are soe examples...

At Africagems : This

At Ajs: one and this collection

At Multicolour (did you se these Chrome T's ?): one , two and there are three more down the road in the same category.

 

[valeria101]

About the stones you have picked at Multicolour and Mneralminers... The pictures look great, but, aside the size (mentioned in the previous post) issue, there may be others. The one at Multicolour has some streack along one side and I would not bet that it does not make it brittle (also, the presence of those inclusions seems to have distorted the facets a bit since hey do not appear paralel to me). I suspect that stone number two has been photographed under very intense lighting (given the small, dark shaddow and the lack of flash on one side of the stone) which lightened up the color: this may be quite dark indeed, perhaps maintaining some green flash. Not that the seller does not warn about this: the stone is labeled "medium dark". I expect a "dark" green tourmaline to appear black-ish, so this is only a bit better. However, the stone in the add might have been the same given the pics.

PS: I did hear the part about "blueish green", but here is one more HERE

if you like them dark, there is a dark but nice one on This page.

And a very nicely cut one HERE and HERE from This list

Enjoy!

 

[Mara]

Thanks V...I will check out the links when we get back on New Years. I will definitely continue to post stones I find on here so that I can get your excellent opinion, since I obviously know nothing about colored gems!

What color does the stone in the original picture look like? Darker green or more of a medium?




About the stone floating in midair, what do you suggest? Can I have the setting adapted around the stone since I would be looking at having it custom made? Or get a deeper stone? Suggestions? I don't mind if it floats a bit but I don't want it to look funny...couldn't I just have the head/basket of the ring made slightly shallower, to fit the stone I buy?




Lastly about it stretching across the width of the fingers, should I measure Greg's finger?

I can do this on his RING hand and say it's for his wedding ring, since this would go on his right hand same finger so it would not be that off in measurements. Then be sure to get a stone that spans the width of the finger? Can setting make up for any of this width?




What about setting cost, do you have any idea what it would cost to have something simple like this setting made? I'm hoping around $500?

 

[valeria101]

Happy New Year, Mara !

I am very convinced that going below 5cts would hamper the looks of the ring, although we could model more precisely what this means. And, given how low tourmaline prices are, there should be no reazon. No idea how I missed the piece below on the previous post! It sounds perfect for your project. If you like the color, than this is it... It will probably take quite a while to find a better piece: this color is not common and such clarity in tourmaline is by no means easy to get. This piece should look somewhat darker than the picture ('cause it is under strong lighting and not mounted). The source is one of the best I know: an important supplier for African rough and cut gems, with all the knowledge and stock one can ask for.

There is one big reazon why I do not like small tourmalines: 1) the material is not particularly sparkly, so little shallow stones look like glass; 2) small stones are sometimes cut in an attempt to open the overly deap color of cheap rough - they start as very low quality material, 3) tourmaline is rather cheap, so why skimp?

Price for setting? No idea, unless you would have it made by my good ol' jeweler here in Bucharest

PS: THIS is where the tourmaline below comes from.

Why is this top quality? This and ore examples of average tuff on the same site may make the point. (EDITED)

 

[Mara]

Valeria what about something like this one, what does 'almost loupe clean' mean..can you see visible inclusions?


http://ajsgems.com/TBG/TBG-00005.htm




I went and measured Greg's finger width across and think something that is around 12/13mm or so would fit nicely. He has a ring right now from college on that same finger and it's about 13mm width across and it takes up most of his finger. I want to get rid of that ring, so this will be the replacement.

Also I'd like to get a natural stone, not treated...is there any disadvantage to doing this? I don't know why, but I am just not a fan of the treated stones really...not when there are beautiful naturals out there.




Lastly, I don't mind getting a slightly smaller stone or paying a little more but I don't want to pay $600 for the stone. I'd like to keep it around or under $300/400 if possible. This would be a fun project but next year will be tight so I don't want to break the bank on something like this.




Oh and what is a chrome tourmaline vs a blue-green? The Chrome look like the emerald green color that I want possibly? Confusing...

 

[Mara]

Damn this one looks somewhat perfect in sizing, color, price but it's SOLD.




http://www.customgemstones.com/TOURMALINE/to404.htm

 

[Mara]

Here is another one, Val you found this one up above as well, looks like a potential? Do you think the color is pretty accurate?

 

[Mara]

http://www.thebrazilianconnection.com/4.40tourm.JPG




Or this one 12.7x8.4 Dark Green $167.20 ? Will this be TOO DARK (aka black as you noted?) when set? What if the bottom of the ring has the window such as this one does...to allow light...the finger will still block?

 

[Griffin]

Finding the right Tourmaline pretty much involves selecting it by hand. The color is impossible to determine through photos, but that isn't even the hard part. Because of the shape of the tourmaline crystal they tend to be cut for maximum weight and they are NEVER calibrated or even share a cammon aspect ratio for faceting or depth of cut. This can also throw off color in photos as many of them are cut DEEP, almost as deep or deeper than they are wide. This also makes them a pain in the ass to set, that and they are relatively fragile so you have to design the mounting to take that into account.
They are inexpensive, beautiful, and durable if properly mounted. I don't mean to scare you away from them, I set them all the time. You can't just buy one off the internet from a photo and pop it into a mounting, though. Each one has it's own personality and an insane range of subtlety in colors.

As for the mounting for it in 14k, it should be fairly trivial for any jeweler who has experience setting them as long as they have the stone in hand to work with. Measurements, unfortunately are not enough with tourmalines. Ask for open gallery work on the sides if you are worried about light play, it doesn't need very much.
I will post a picture of a men's ring I designed a couple of years ago for a Green Tourmaline to give you an idea for getting light behind it.
If I can find it!

 

[Griffin]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think there ARE enhancements for tourmalines, that and they are all usually very clean. There are also no real cutting standards for them.
Putting diamond grades for clarity or cut on them, or advertising them as untreated, is unnecessary at best.

You really need to see tham up close. Go find someone locally who carries them or better yet make a road trip to your nearest wholesale Gem Show, most of them let the public in anyway, and if they don't make yourself up a name and file for a business license. Six bucks to your local revenue dept. will get you the tax ID# to get in the door as a "dealer".

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/1/2004 6:26:24 PM Mara wrote:

Valeria what about something like this one, what does 'almost loupe clean' mean... can you see visible inclusions?

I'd like to get a natural stone, not treated...is there any disadvantage to doing this?

Oh and what is a chrome tourmaline vs. a blue-green? The Chrome look like the emerald green color that I want possibly?

----------------[/quote]



I'll try to get through most of the comments above, let me know if I miss anything.

First, about enhancements: tourmaline is by no means "usually clean": maybe there are quite a few clean cut stones, but this is just because there is such bulk of rough to choose from. Tourmaline is frequently heated. There are three difficulties involved in buying non-treated stones: 1) it takes more time, 2) sellers may not be as strict in identifying enhancement for less expensive stones (so "natural" may mean whatever), 3) heating for tourmaline means a non-invasive, low temperature treatment far from the chemicals-laced "melt down" labs are currently fighting off sapphire. Given the price of the stuff, harsh enhancements are not economically justifiable and detecting treatments even less so.

About color: No, it is not possible to perfectly read color from an online picture (same as for diamonds), but one can get an idea. And there are ways to tell at least some of the manipulations applied to online pictures; when I see one it is the last time I pass by that site! Sure, no way to weed all out... Being familiar with the material to begin with makes this interpretation easier.

Chrome, and overtones... Chrome tourmaline is distinguished by its chemical composition (hence name) and has acquired fame for an emerald-like green. However, as more deposits have been discovered, now there is ugly& cheap chrome tourmaline as well. Some still try to charge a premium for the Cr composition regardless of looks though. Dark tone and yellowish color drop prices as much as 5 fold (chrome or not). I surely understand why dark tourmaline in cheap (looks like polished coal - a rather not appreciated gem look, and is very common) but the yellowish stuff may be a great buy if you like it. Blue overtones are rarer and hence seriously more expensive.

About clarity: "almost loupe clean" should mean "better than eye clean" or clean up to some magnification below 10X. In the same spirit: "loupe clean" refers to 10X, "eye clean" is just that, and anything else shows "slight", "moderate" or "severe" inclusions upon casual investigation. However, some sellers define their own grading "names", and one has to look for the explanations posted on the site. No explanation? No buy... as far as I am concerned. The wording above applies to the source you ask about, Mara, and is somewhat standard.


About the choices above:
The one at Awesomegems: I expect it to be a military green and darker than that in mounting. The cut looks nice (from top). The price though is rather fantastic: I would expect about 50/ct for this stuff, unless some awesome, signature cutting adds value.

The one at the Brazilian Connection: surely too dark, it may only look green is back lit (with a bulb, not just an open mounting).

The one at AJS looks faded; both 'cause the weak color saturation in the material and, perhaps, the shallow cut.

The sold one... yeah, I thought that was perfect for you too. Why not call the cutter and ask for one? If he has rough in stock, this may be the best way. How about the cutter Strmdr brought to the forum? This should take either 2 phone calls or 2 e-mails... not all that bad.

About setting strange-cut tourmaline: yeah, calibration is a problem, but less so if one has the ring custom-made (as you are). It is easy to find weird proportions in tourmaline (rough often looks like thin, long sticks, very lovely), but not sure whether this is bad. The stone in the initial add was such an overly deep stone, and this is why it looked so dark. Cutting for color may mean retaining a lot of weight (in less saturated rough) or very little (when the material is overly dark to start with).

I hope this post starts to make a case for why buying diamonds is easy

!

 

[valeria101]

On a more positive note

...

ONE

- dark, like my ring, but these are easy to like for exactly what the seller boasts.


TWO

- happy encounter this! (bottom of page). Not overly dark (although on the dark side), and the graduated steps on the back should deliver nice, consistent light through the table. PERRRRRFECT I would keep finger crossed (and return option opened) for the chance that you find this too dark. Should it look anything like the picture: this saturated color would hold nicely in yellow gold and surely in white, near the whitest diamond accnts.


THREE

- not dark, forest green, 'correct' cut. The yellow tint drives the price low: the rest is great. I can see this piece set in brushed white gold with two yllowish-brown (or yelow) diamonds where the white ones are in the original, for someone who likes earthy / autumn colors.


FOUR

- Do you know this store? One more blueish-green or so, with nice clarity and expert cut.

FIVE

- if you ever want to see how cheap these can get, thry the fifth link! Here low color saturation did the trick (it has a 5/3 tone/saturation rank, and the seller labels it "slightly grayinsh", but the picture may still look good : as in "good warning")
Hope this helps...

 

[Mara]

Val, I like the 1st and 2nd links. What are your thoughts on the CUT for a ring like the one I posted. Should it be more like the 1st or 2nd or more crisscut? What would be more appealing?




Also as for the darkness of the first stone, think that would work in the setting I posted? Or too dark.




I know that someone noted shopping offline may be better but I want to make this purchase online if possible...hoping for the best result with your expertise, V.

 

[valeria101]

I hope I can help, but since I have never been shopping for gems with you (

) there is no way for me to tell wether you'd like what I think you would. For example: neither of stones 1 or 2 will be "emerald green" - they are decent green tourmalines, but none will make it in a museum display for putting emeralds to shame (tourmaline almost never gets that far). Neither did the ring you pictured. Done with the disclaimer.

Between the two, I surely prefer the second: the first stone appears darker, there is no way to tell how it looks in profile and I am not crazy about that steely-blueish tint. It is the blue overtone that pushed the price, but this is not really something I worry about. Also, unless you like that checker cut (not my favorite), the second stone has a more formal look (it is an Ec after all, and appears to be a honest EC, for as much as one can see of its profile). Checkerboard crown are often applied to add some flash to either included or dark material (remember the Leo or Fire Rose cuts in diamonds with their "rose-cut" crowns?), so this can be one more indication that one needs alot of light to coax color out of the first stone. The seller indicates that the stone looks best under intense light-same as those dull diamonds, so as to speak. This is, of course a probable scenario: I would not swear to it before the due dilligence process of talking with the vendor and handling the piece.

The second: appears to have a more saturated green color (even the dark areas appear green rather than gray-black) and a lighter tone. The ever-so-light yellow overtone keeps price down: so I expect that the current price indicates better (opened) color. I have not noticed pricing abuses at Lapilia in the past two years or so. There is one thing: the second stone is photographed against a reflective background. This shown the pavilion, but also lightens the piece up (much like backing did in old jewelry).

All in all: if you order one with the option to return it, I would order the second. Chances are the first is too dark and most people expect more from colored stones than the ocasional flash. I have one of those and love it, but I am the one who also prefers uncut or brown diamonds, mind you.

This is just about all I could posibly tell about these two. Hopes it helps