Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Grape/royal purple garnet (Mozambique) - seeking opinions
- Thread starter toomuchB
- Start date
Here is mine... lots of blue and pink in person! Check out his shop.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will check his store - yours is fabulous. Does it flash red under incandescent light? And yeah, I would not want to again buy something too dark so I will be careful!
You may want to inquire after this to see what it becomes!
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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I would call the flashes more of a fuchsia, but I suppose they are considered "red" in the trade.
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Oh wow!!! Good catch!
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Good on you for suggesting it! The stone is stunning.
Holy Smokes look at this one! Old post, but does not say sold.
That makes me feel good. The teacher approves the pupil's work!
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Nooooo I'm an eternal student!
Well then you are a post-doctoral student helping out at the elementary school where I go!
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Hugs...I saw this in my online travels and it looks beautiful. It's Russian! I do not know if they still have it. I also don't know the vendor at all, but they did have a booth at the Bangkok Gems & Jewelry Fair, which is something I look for when I try to assess credibility of Asian vendors.
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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It's gorgeous! Just be careful, because the listing says "Russian color." I'm a born skeptic, so that reads to me like "great chocolatey flavor!" And that, of course, mean no actual chocolate. lol But it could be completely innocent wording. This would be very large/rare for Siberian material!
Oh, very good catch!!
Daisys and Diamonds
Super_Ideal_Rock
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that is just beyound lovely
its stunning
im now craving that like its a grape mentos (or something blackcurent flavoured)
Gorgeous!
FYI I am fairly certain that quartz origin is not determinable by lab testing, so the best way to have a high chance of Siberian material is antique Russian jewellery. Even then, other origins were found and imported to Russia.
I did a quick check and per this paper, Brazilian mining of amethyst began in the 19th century, so you'd have to buy a piece from before to be certain - and assume that the stone was not swapped out etc (https://www.researchgate.net/public..._in_Brazil_A_Brief_History_and_Current_Status)
I'm deciding between two purple things actually, either a amethyst or something smaller and more unusual
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Gorgeous!
FYI I am fairly certain that quartz origin is not determinable by lab testing, so the best way to have a high chance of Siberian material is antique Russian jewellery. Even then, other origins were found and imported to Russia.
I did a quick check and per this paper, Brazilian mining of amethyst began in the 19th century, so you'd have to buy a piece from before to be certain - and assume that the stone was not swapped out etc (https://www.researchgate.net/public..._in_Brazil_A_Brief_History_and_Current_Status)
I'm deciding between two purple things actually, either a amethyst or something smaller and more unusual
Interesting, thank you! Also, though Siberian material is thought to be #1 in terms of quality/rarity, anyone who loves it should maybe give Uruguayan a try. It's very similar looking, plus it's the only amethyst you can trust is unheated. Heating lightens amethyst, but it also destroys pleochroism. So they leave Uruguayan material dark and flashy.
Interesting, thank you! Also, though Siberian material is thought to be #1 in terms of quality/rarity, anyone who loves it should maybe give Uruguayan a try. It's very similar looking, plus it's the only amethyst you can trust is unheated. Heating lightens amethyst, but it also destroys pleochroism. So they leave Uruguayan material dark and flashy.
Yeah, I've heard and seen good things about Zambian material too, and some dealers keep track of which material is treated (but you have to trust the seller has trustworthy sources). Honestly, as long as the color is not a 'flat' purple it is fine by my, origin is not much of a consideration, but no heat is a plus.
Some eye candy of stated Siberian amethyst:
From 1880s-90s
Antique Amethyst Jewelry – Siberian Amethyst Bangle
An Antique Russian Siberian Amethyst, Diamond and Gold Bracelet made in Moscow between 1882 and 1898 This Victorian era 14K rose gold bangle bracelet features a […]
romanovrussia.com
Really gorgeous color that reminds me of the Uruguayan material, 1910s
The fact that the larger one is included would give me more confidence that it may indeed be Siberian - since there would probably not be a problem to get clean Brazil material for such a high end piece. But who knows.
Antique Amethyst Jewelry | Siberian Amethyst Gold
An Impressive Antique Siberian Amethyst and Demantoid Garnet Rose Gold Pendant Necklace made in Moscow between 1908 and 1917 Three deep velvet purple Siberian amethysts, sixteen […]
romanovrussia.com
Early 1900s Faberge, but the color looks kind of flat in the video. Maybe better IRL.
Fabergé Amethyst Brooch, 56.21 carats
Fabergé Amethyst Brooch, 56.21 carats. Rare historical jewelry for sale at M.S. Rau
rauantiques.com
Much of the ones on RomanovRussia are very nice purples but they don't give the 'Siberian' look.
Autumn in New England
Ideal_Rock
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Yeah, I've heard and seen good things about Zambian material too, and some dealers keep track of which material is treated (but you have to trust the seller has trustworthy sources). Honestly, as long as the color is not a 'flat' purple it is fine by my, origin is not much of a consideration, but no heat is a plus.
Some eye candy of stated Siberian amethyst:
From 1880s-90s
Antique Amethyst Jewelry – Siberian Amethyst Bangle
An Antique Russian Siberian Amethyst, Diamond and Gold Bracelet made in Moscow between 1882 and 1898 This Victorian era 14K rose gold bangle bracelet features a […]
Really gorgeous color that reminds me of the Uruguayan material, 1910s
The fact that the larger one is included would give me more confidence that it may indeed be Siberian - since there would probably not be a problem to get clean Brazil material for such a high end piece. But who knows.
Antique Amethyst Jewelry | Siberian Amethyst Gold
An Impressive Antique Siberian Amethyst and Demantoid Garnet Rose Gold Pendant Necklace made in Moscow between 1908 and 1917 Three deep velvet purple Siberian amethysts, sixteen […]
Early 1900s Faberge, but the color looks kind of flat in the video. Maybe better IRL.
Fabergé Amethyst Brooch, 56.21 carats
Fabergé Amethyst Brooch, 56.21 carats. Rare historical jewelry for sale at M.S. Rau
The BLUE in the pendant stone!!
The BLUE in the pendant stone!!
Yeah, I mean this bluish zoning in this photo? Gorgeous. Guess I have to save thousands for something similar now, because now that I've seen this I won't be satisfied with an almost identical amethyst from more modern sources
Sigh, I always make life more complicated.
These are similar quality, circa 1890
Rare Antique Russian Siberian Amethyst Diamond Earrings
St. Petersburg, circa 1890 A pair of 14K gold antique cluster earrings prong-set with deeply saturated royal purple with flashes of pink old mine cut Siberian amethysts […]
romanovrussia.com
On the plus side, some of these appear to be in simpler settings so probably quite a bit less $. I care about the stone/s, so simpler setting is ideal.
Like this one, 1899 to 1908.
Although too dark, I wonder if that is a cut issue or a result of the setting that covers much of the stone.
Siberian Amethyst Gold Antique Russian Ring
made in Moscow between 1899 and 1908 A 14K rose gold ring features a bezel-set oval Siberian amethyst of a deep royal purple color. The amethyst […]
romanovrussia.com
Autumn, I am certain your one from Uruguay is very similar or better visually to these, and perfectly cut. Maybe I'll reach my senses in the future and go with something like yours or something like @Odyssey44 suggested. For now I'll wait and see if something like this pops up in a reasonable price point with the right quality amethyst/s. Maybe I am crazy.
Finally-
I have sent one final message to Manzanitagems (4.28ct garnet seller) on a few platforms, explaining that I tried to reach out with a lower offer that was flexible and that I understand if they were unenthusiastic about it. But, if their listed price is firm, I respect that and I would just like a confirmation. If they confirm it is firm, maybe I will revisit whether it is worth it in the future.
In the meantime, the rarer purple stone I was hinting at hunting is tenebrescent Hackmanite. Colorless with no UV, intense purple under shortwave UV, and orange under longwave. It holds the purple color for a while after exposure and is repeatable. I think that is so cool! I only trust a handful of sellers to guarantee top quality, no photo manipulation and lack of clarity treatment. So we will see if I find one. Hoping for over 1ct. Here's an example:
0.47 ct. Color Change Hackmanite - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader
www.thegemtrader.com
/ramble
I don't know Too Much, those antique pieces do kind of spoil looking for modern stones. Wow, that is all I can say. I wouldn't be too greedy--I'd just like the spectacular earrings! The colors are amazing. Manzawho?? I'm sorry, who cares about them when there are pieces like this available?!?! Of course I have not looked at the price... Let us know what they say but you took my enthusiasm for that garnet. haha.Yeah, I mean this bluish zoning in this photo? Gorgeous. Guess I have to save thousands for something similar now, because now that I've seen this I won't be satisfied with an almost identical amethyst from more modern sources
Sigh, I always make life more complicated.
These are similar quality, circa 1890
Rare Antique Russian Siberian Amethyst Diamond Earrings
St. Petersburg, circa 1890 A pair of 14K gold antique cluster earrings prong-set with deeply saturated royal purple with flashes of pink old mine cut Siberian amethysts […]
On the plus side, some of these appear to be in simpler settings so probably quite a bit less $. I care about the stone/s, so simpler setting is ideal.
Like this one, 1899 to 1908.
Although too dark, I wonder if that is a cut issue or a result of the setting that covers much of the stone.
Siberian Amethyst Gold Antique Russian Ring
made in Moscow between 1899 and 1908 A 14K rose gold ring features a bezel-set oval Siberian amethyst of a deep royal purple color. The amethyst […]
Autumn, I am certain your one from Uruguay is very similar or better visually to these, and perfectly cut. Maybe I'll reach my senses in the future and go with something like yours or something like @Odyssey44 suggested. For now I'll wait and see if something like this pops up in a reasonable price point with the right quality amethyst/s. Maybe I am crazy.
Finally-
I have sent one final message to Manzanitagems (4.28ct garnet seller) on a few platforms, explaining that I tried to reach out with a lower offer that was flexible and that I understand if they were unenthusiastic about it. But, if their listed price is firm, I respect that and I would just like a confirmation. If they confirm it is firm, maybe I will revisit whether it is worth it in the future.
In the meantime, the rarer purple stone I was hinting at hunting is tenebrescent Hackmanite. Colorless with no UV, intense purple under shortwave UV, and orange under longwave. It holds the purple color for a while after exposure and is repeatable. I think that is so cool! I only trust a handful of sellers to guarantee top quality, no photo manipulation and lack of clarity treatment. So we will see if I find one. Hoping for over 1ct. Here's an example:
0.47 ct. Color Change Hackmanite - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader
/ramble
Now that Hackmanite is special! I had never heard of it before and it is just so cool. I'd never stop putting different lighting on it! Would you want it for a ring or something else?
Ramble away any time! It is great fun to read and makes me feel we are all at tea chatting!
Totally understand! Those earrings are gorgeous. But I like the garnet for different reasons haha. A large, fine Mozambique/Manica grape garnet is one of my bucket list items.
The hackmanite would just be a small curiosity - its a bit soft at 5.5-6. I own several softer stones which I display on my desk.
I do not see available Russian pieces with such fine quality amethysts at the moment but I've been following the RomanovRussia site for years. They pop up and sell quickly. I didn't screenshot such listings because I didn't think I'd be interested.
I dug some past sales from their profile on Rubylane, which keeps details and pricing intact, you gotta scroll down a bit for the details. Also, the pricing of course includes fairly intricate antique settings with diamonds or demantoids. Which is why I say a simple setting would be ideal for the wallet. Not saying all of these are on par with the earring or pendant amethysts above, but still a useful benchmark.
But hey, maybe I will get over this material and get something similar and much cheaper from Uruguay, Zambia, etc. I'm in no rush
7ct, 1899, 10.5k
Siberian Amethyst Diamond Convertible Bracelet / Necklace SALE PENDING at Ruby Lane
For Sale - Antique Necklaces from Romanov Russia Ltd - Made in Saint Petersburg, Russia, circa 1890.The 14K gold bangle bracelet is centered with an excellent Siberian amethyst of a velvety pinkish royal purple color. The amethyst is surrounded by two rows of sparkling old rose cut diamonds. The...
www.rubylane.com
14ct, 1915, 15k
Rare Antique Siberian Amethyst Diamond Necklace SALE PENDING at Ruby Lane
For Sale - Antique Necklaces from Romanov Russia Ltd - Saint Petersburg, Russia, circa 1915The necklace is handcrafted in silver topped 14K gold (front – silver, back – gold). It features a pear shaped Siberian amethyst of a superb deep royal purple color. The amethyst is framed by bright white...
www.rubylane.com
12ct, 1910s, 12.5k
Antique Russian Siberian Amethyst 5.47 Ct Tw Diamond Cluster Bangle Bracelet SALE PENDING at Ruby Lane
For Sale - Vintage Bracelets from Romanov Russia Ltd - made in Russia between 1908 and 1917,A very fine vintage Russian silver and polished rose gold bangle bracelet.The front is mounted with a detachable panel set with a central 12 ct oval Siberian amethyst surrounded by a double row of old cut
www.rubylane.com
3ct, 1880s, 6k
Siberian Amethyst Diamond Antique Ring SALE PENDING at Ruby Lane
For Sale - Antique Rings from Romanov Russia Ltd - Russia, circa 1880s.This antique 14K gold cluster ring features an old cushion cut Siberian amethyst of an excellent pinkish bluish purple color. The stone is full of life and very sparkly. It is framed by chunky old mine cut diamonds.The...
www.rubylane.com
13ct, 1910s ,10k
Antique Russian Art Nouveau Siberian Amethyst Demantoid 14K Gold Pendant Necklace SALE PENDING at Ruby Lane
For Sale - Antique Necklaces from Romanov Russia Ltd - Made between 1908 and 1917An antique Russian gold pendant is designed in Art Nouveau taste as a stylized grape vine with finely modeled green gold grape leaves. The pendant features a rare Siberian amethyst and five green demantoid...
www.rubylane.com
Good Grief! They all just glow! I need to follow the RomanovRussia site too. I would love to pretend I am a lesser Romanov that has jewels like this.
I totally understand about the heart wants what the heart wants. If the grape garnet is on your list, you must have one. And it does not preclude an amethyst purchase later!
I'll keep posting interesting amethysts I see in my online travels...
I totally understand about the heart wants what the heart wants. If the grape garnet is on your list, you must have one. And it does not preclude an amethyst purchase later!
I'll keep posting interesting amethysts I see in my online travels...
@toomuchB Did you see this? Swoon-worthy!
www.1stdibs.com
A Spectacular Large Siberian Amethyst and Diamond Pendant/Brooch, c. 1860 at 1stDibs
View this item and discover similar for sale at 1stDibs - Antique silver topped yellow gold brooch and pendant centering a gem quality natural approximately 22 ct. Siberian amethyst in a fancy octagonal shape.
www.1stdibs.com
@toomuchB Did you see this? Swoon-worthy!
A Spectacular Large Siberian Amethyst and Diamond Pendant/Brooch, c. 1860 at 1stDibs
View this item and discover similar for sale at 1stDibs - Antique silver topped yellow gold brooch and pendant centering a gem quality natural approximately 22 ct. Siberian amethyst in a fancy octagonal shape.
I did actually! Gorgeous, but I wonder what the price would be if it had a simpler setting. I'd also be curious to know what if any hallmarks it has.
I've had some sudden expenses so even if it was in a simpler setting and therefore better value for what I'm looking for, I could not buy it at the moment.
Here is a surprisingly simple setting from 1890s for example:
Russian Siberian Amethyst Gold Ring
An Antique Amethyst Ring Moscow, circa 1890 A 14K gold ring is prong set with a pear cut Siberian amethyst (13.2 x 8.5 x 5.2 mm, […]
romanovrussia.com
I did actually! Gorgeous, but I wonder what the price would be if it had a simpler setting. I'd also be curious to know what if any hallmarks it has.
I've had some sudden expenses so even if it was in a simpler setting and therefore better value for what I'm looking for, I could not buy it at the moment.
Here is a surprisingly simple setting from 1890s for example:
Russian Siberian Amethyst Gold Ring
An Antique Amethyst Ring Moscow, circa 1890 A 14K gold ring is prong set with a pear cut Siberian amethyst (13.2 x 8.5 x 5.2 mm, […]
I wonder how much it was. That ring looks almost modern! I have bought way too much lately too or I would have been badly tempted to make an offer after you passed on it. The whole thing gives me crown jewel vibes. I love it.
I wasn't sure if it was relevant to mention in my last response - but I did inquire about the 1stdibs piece before I had the unexpected expenses. The seller kind of dodged the questions I had on hallmarks/proof of age and origin. Maybe they are very reputable, I don't know, but for anyone with serious interest, they should confirm if they are ok with the details before buying.
edit - Okay, I took another look at the listing and it does mention 'this piece bears no marks but has been tested to confirm that it is silver topped 14K gold.'
Silver topped gold is typical of the period but no hallmarks is a pity, still perhaps someone with experience can still determine age based on craftsmanship characteristics.
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