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Got my e-ring from a pricescope dealer :-(

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shibbel

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
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36
After a 3 day delay I finally got the e-ring today. To say the least, I’m appalled. First off, I was not told the truth. On the stone I picked; I was told there was a black carbon deposit on the top edge of the crown...but, this inclusion was completely eye clean. Turns out, it is not eye clean in the dimmest of light. I know this because the person setting the ring neglected to even "prong" the black spot! The company selling me the stone said this about it in an email:

"Attached please find the GIA certificate, and yes the diamond is completely eye clean."

My question is; is this stone even worth the $3,830 I paid for it? More over, I had, and still have a good 2 months to look for the perfect stone. Is this stone worth passing on everything else I might come across in the future? I mean, the stone is beautiful, and shines like crazy. But still, the black spot could probably be seen by a blind man....it's the easy to see.

I was under the impression it was completely eye clean (even the black spot), and that the black spot would be pronged to make sure it's never seen. Here are the stats...it rates a .9 on the HCA:

1.03ct Round Brilliant Cut Diamond,
H in color and SI2 in clarity,
GIA Certified,
61.1% Depth,
55% Table,
Thin to Medium Faceted Girdle,
Polish and Symmetry – Excellent,
No Culet
Medium Fluorescence
34.5° crown angle
40.7° pavilion angle
measures 6.55 x 6.57 x 4.01mm.

All in all, the stone is actually the least of my problems (since I could easily return it for a refund). The setting for the stone though, was custom made by this same online "pricescope" listed dealer. Like I posted on the board before; the setting is a copy of one I saw on Blue Nile. However, it appears that, that too was done as hastily as the placement of the stone. There are horizontal "markings" that run across three of the prongs. These marks or on the outside wall....is that acceptable?

And that's the smallest setting problem. The channel setting rises to meet the center stone (as you can see from the side view of the Blue Nile Ring). On mine, the spaces left by the rising channel setting are uneven, and rough in spots. Also the prong base sits too high off the body if the ring. I was told my setting would "look exactly" like the Blue Nile setting. I have no idea how this can be fixed...it seems to me the setting was formed poorly. At this point I’m very nervous about getting stuck with the setting since I made a wire to pay it...and don't have credit card protection.

Lastly, the ring was supposed to be 950 platinum, but is not stamped 950...just PLAT. Is this another reason for concern?

I will post pics of the actual setting soon.
 
Wow, I 'm so sorry to hear that you are disappointed. I feel compelled to reply to this post particularly because of what you wrote about your stone not being "eye-clean." Mainly because I had the same feeling when I got my stone. I told my vendor what I was looking for in "eye-clean" and was clear about my expectations. Eye-clean usually means that in normal viewing conditions, when someone is viewing your ring from 12 inches away or so, they won't see the inclusion. I, however, wanted a stone that I couldn't see the inclusion in even if it was four inches from my face, which I told them. When I got my stone, this wasn't the case, and like you I could see a black spot. I was disappointed with this aspect of the stone (although the light return was beautiful), but I decided to live with it then and upgrade it later when I was ready because I wasn't sure if it's just because I have good eyes, and also because shipping it back was going to be such a pain. (I learned later just what a pain it really is...).

(Edited to add: You have an SI-2 stone. SI-2 are rarely eye-clean stones in thse sense that you're not going to see a darned thing. So I'm wondering if the setter was supposed to put a prong over it, and therein lies your eye-clean problem. It may be very easily remedied).

The thing is that we could discuss until we're blue in the face about what eye-clean is and is not, but the fact of the matter is that you're not happy with your stone. You're also not happy with the quality control on the setting. This also strikes a cord with me and ticks me off on your behalf. Why are vendors shipping out settings that aren't perfect? Mailing a diamond ring all over the place is too complicated not to get it right the first time.

I'm not attacking Pricescope vendors. In fact, I love my vendor because of all the other things they've done right. But that doesn't mean there isn't sometimes room for improvement. In general, I think PS vendors are wonderful and provide a great product for a competitive price. But here I think we have a couple of complaints that have been made before, and I think this kind of thing shouldn't be happening. I just want to keep them on their toes!

Oh, and by the way, you should be happy that your ring is stamped "PLAT" because only PT 950 can legally be stamped "PLAT".

Daniela
 
Hello Shibbel, we are very sorry to hear that you are disappointed with the ring that you purchased from one of the dealers here on PS. Since we're not privy to all of the details that are pertinent to your specific transaction we will not be addressing those issues, however we would like to comment on some of the more generic issues pertaining to your purchase.

We've yet to see an SI-2 clarity diamond that is 100% or eye clean and we've been in the business since 1979. The fact is that we've always been able to find the inclusions with a little effort, some inclusions are easier to find than others. If the inclusion is only visible under dim light, you might have one that is better than most. The price that you paid for the diamond is certainly excellent! No questions about that. A search for comparable diamonds here on PS will confirm that fact rather easily. Once again, every SI-2 clarity diamond that we've ever seen exhibits some sort of eye visible inclusions, personally we'd rather have a tiny dark spot than a huge whopping crack (feather) running in off the edge of the stone, so that might be something to consider. You indicated that you believe that the inclusion can be covered with a prong, that might be something to consider.

As far as the concept of "eye clean" goes, one thing that we would like to see people keep in mind regarding this concept is that the degree of "eye clean" is only going to be as good as the eye sight of the person making the judgement call... I (Todd) have 17/20 vision corrected only for Astygmatism (sp?) and thus I'm often able to locate inclusions within diamonds easier than other professionals in the trade, this is perhaps why I end up returning the majority of the SI-1 clarity diamonds that we bring in from our diamond cutters on the basis that they have described them as being "eye clean" as well as meeting the rest of our selection criteria... Of course, there are other situations that are simply matters of an outright lie like we experienced the other day where one of our suppliers took a look at an SI-1 clarity diamond, told us that it was eye clean and then when we called the next day to tell him that the diamond wasn't eye clean and that he probably needed to increase the prescription of his eye glasses (a bit of sarcastic truth) he responded with "Yes, I know that the diamond is not eye clean but I thought you might get over that once you'd seen it"... There's a little of that in our industry as well
rolleyes.gif


As far as the mounting goes, it sounds like there are some filing marks or plier marks left on the prongs, our suggestion is to ask the dealer to assist you with returning the ring to them for inspection and repair. We do this for our clients whenever they have a concern about something, sometimes their concern is valid and sometimes it is not, but that's not the point... The fact is that it is clear that you are not satisfied with the quality of your purchase at the moment and perhaps a little understanding pertaining to the general characteristics of SI-2 clarity diamonds as we've described above will alleviate some of that concern and the proper finishing out of the mounting will alleviate or solve the rest of that concern.

We want to COMMEND you for being professional enough to voice your concerns regarding this particular PS dealer without disclosing their identity at this point, it is a clear indication of your integrity... We hope that whoever the PS dealer is that they handle this situation to your benefit with the same great care.
 
I want to thank all of the above for their comments. You truly took a large weight off my shoulders!

It appears that my only problem now, is the poor fabrication quality of the setting. I'm optimistic that the markings can be polished out, the "rising" channel setting can be evened out, and the rough looking spots can be smoothed.

I'm still annoyed that the dealer would send me the ring like this. It's very clear the setting is inadequately finished. And even more irritating, is the fact that they knew about that black spot and didn’t make sure it was pronged (even though they were supposed to).

I'll keep everyone updated on my status. My hopes are that I don't have to "out" the vendor and that all this is handled professionally.
 
I think you should return the stone. Obviously, the inclusion really bothers you. If it bothers you now, it's going to bother you forever. It may just get worse and worse for you. What I mean is, after a while, you're only going to notice the inclusion because it's something that bothers you so much. Maybe other people won't notice the inclusion with a quick glance at the ring, but what really matters is what you and your fiance think about the stone. Don't you want to give a ring that you are 100% proud of? Don't you want your fiancee to wear a ring that you gave to her with pride, one that she can totally love 100%? I tend to think that if something bothers you right off the bat, it's not going to go away.


You have two months, give yourself some more time and find something that you are THRILLED with. My husband and I are both 100% THRILLED with my engagement ring. Almost two years after receiving the ring, I still stare at it and marvel that I actually own something so beautiful. Every couple should feel that way about their e-ring.

Good luck!
 
Hi Shibbel,

I’m so sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with your vendor. I hope that you are able to work this out with them and that your next experience be a joyful one. Don’t worry – there are many beautiful stones out there, including some which are SI2s. You will find the one that you are looking for.
1.gif


Best of luck in your search and kindest regards always,
Linda
wavey.gif
 
Which vendor were you dealing with?

I know people don't want to divulge that sometimes so as to not seem like they're attacking them, but it's good information for us buyers to be aware of. Plus, it gives the vendor a chance to explain themselves and perhaps rectify the problem.

Either way, I'm curious...
 
The stone sounds like a keeper *if* the black spot, which is just a little gem (sometimes a garnet)within a gem, can be pronged. Sounds like the ring should be sent back to reset the stone properly & finish the ring itself properly.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
 
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On 5/15/2004 12:03:24 PM finchuck wrote:

Which vendor were you dealing with?

I know people don't want to divulge that sometimes so as to not seem like they're attacking them, but it's good information for us buyers to be aware of. Plus, it gives the vendor a chance to explain themselves and perhaps rectify the problem.

Either way, I'm curious...----------------
Click to expand...


I personally don't think you should "out" the vendor before talking with them. Anytime you are unhappy with someone's product or service, you should at least give them a chance to respond and try to make it right before complaining to others publically.

I respect and applaud the fact that you haven't said who they are at this point, and I encourage you to have this conversation with them and see what can be done to resolve it. It sounds as if a resetting and finishing of the setting might make it all right. Too bad it didn't happen the first time, but it might be a simple fix.

Good luck and let us know how it comes out!
 
Lop,

You're very right. I myself own my own business; it wouldn't be fair to be attacked before I had a chance to fix things. I can only give the vendor I’m dealing with the same respect.

I'll be posting some pictures of the setting later on tonight. Hopefully, someone on the board can give me some advice on how it can be fixed.


Also, it's not that I dislike the stone to send it back. I just went out of my way to get the best deal I could get. If this stone is a good deal, even with the black spot, I’m willing to live with it. This particular dealer does not have a lifetime stone upgrade. That makes me lean toward sending it back. But now, that I’m hearing there is no such thing as a completely eye clean SI2; it makes me want to keep it (since the spot is at the very edge of the crown, and prong-able).
 
I too as a vendor appreciate your courtesy towards your vendor. My recommendation is to call him and voice your concerns. I am guessing that he will immediately offer to fix the ring. You said that you got it after a 3 day delay, which leads me to believe that your vendor was working under time pressure and I can guarantee you that when that happens poop usually keeps snowballing until every thing is stinky.

Give him first shot at it, it sounds as if most every thing is minor, if not he/she should remake the ring properly.

As far as the SI2, I have seen a few that were completely eye clean to me from the top, even a few I1's that are very difficult to spot. But, I have a client who can see VS2's that are totally invisible to me from accross the table. Many are mistakenly under the impression that SI2 means eye clean by definition, but I assure you that GIA takes pains to point out in its classes now that this is not the case. (We will not talk about what was said in my classes 29 years ago, as it is no longer relevant I am told...)

Good luck and let us know what you are told on Monday!

Wink
 
Hi Everyone-
I have to differ with regard to SI2-
Many SI2's have inclusions visiible to to the eye. But many SI2's are eye clean- even to a person with sharp eyes.

Sometimes a stone has a tiny black spot - VS2 size- and because of placement, it's actually visible to the naked eye- yet it's still graded VS2 by GIA.

The grading of clarity is cumulative.
That means that a stone could have three tiny areas of imperfection- each visible only with a loupe- yet GIA calls it SI2. This type of SI2 would be eye clean



shibbel - you definately got a great deal as far as price.
Still, I will pose an alternate point of veiw-
If the spot bothers you exchange it for a different stone.
Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with loving a stone with a spot you can see- and if that's the case, you're in great shape.
I'm sure we'd all like to see the ring to know what's going on with it.

Best of luck.
 
I have to chime in on this one, too.....because my SI2 stone IS completely eye-clean. In fact, so clean that I have a hard time locating the inclusions (white wispy ones) even under a loupe.




I can readily see the pinpoint clusters under magnification......but can't see those without the loupe, either.


Without the loupe, I cannot see a damn thing.....and neither can anyone else. I've ASKED them to scrutinize the heck out of my diamond, and it is indeed completely eyeclean as an SI2.
 
Ok,

Here are the pictures of the ring; and the picture of the Blue Nile ring I was told it would look "exactly" like. The poor workmanship is easy to see. If you notice, on the Blue Nile ring, the prong head "base" sits flush. Where as on my ring, it has a "neck" of sorts…not so much bad workmanship as it is unattractive to me.

Ring2.jpg

RING1.jpg

RING4.jpg

RING.jpg
 
Yeah, it needs to be re-worked. It's rough looking from the side pic. The inclusion looks "prongable". But, you have to decide mentally if you will be happy. I would much rather have a benign little crytal gem seen from time to time than a feather. Trade offs exist when you are dealing with SI's.
 
I agree -- have them redo or fix the setting. It shouldn't be rough like that, and I don't know what happened with that "neck". You should talk to them about that -- it looks to me as if they had to do that to make something work out right, fit-wise.

F&I is right -- you have to decide if you will be happy with that inclusion. I think the little crystals are kind of cool if they aren't distracting, but then, I have 40-something eyes, and wouldn't even notice it
sick.gif
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Wow. Yup, that puppy needs to be sent back. I'm so sorry, Shibbel. You shouldn't have to deal with this. On the bright side, a prong will remedy you seeing that inclusion.

Daniela
 
shibbel,




Totally agree with you. They should remake the ring for you.




Good luck
 
I think folks are being far too nice. That's a real hack job. If for some reason you decide to not get your money back on that setting, I'd want a guarantee not only that you get a new ring, but also that a different guy does the work. There's no excuse.
 
While you're getting that redone I would also want to see this space (in blue) eliminated. If the peg from the prongs is soldered that high off the ring I would think it stands a greater chance of being knocked off.

RINGo1.jpg
 
Wow--The stone looks like a winner--you are right that the prong would hide the spot forever. but the workmanship is disappointing to say the least. get them to re-do it. There is just no excuse for scalloping the channel set... I was stunned to see that.

Good luck--it's a beautiful stone, ring and design--great choice...just get them to clean it up.
1.gif
 
Actually the inclusion can be viewed as a positive in that you will *always* be able to identify your stone. At the end of the day it really depends on how your fiance views it of course. I would ditto the sentiments of the other vendors in that you have kept this to yourself and them and I believe any probs should try to be hashed out privately first. EVERY jeweler/vendor runs into challenges from time to time and there are no exceptions. How they handle it is what counts.
 


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On 5/16/2004 11:50:41 AM Rhino wrote:





Actually the inclusion can be viewed as a positive in that you will *always* be able to identify your stone. At the end of the day it really depends on how your fiance views it of course. I would ditto the sentiments of the other vendors in that you have kept this to yourself and them and I believe any probs should try to be hashed out privately first. EVERY jeweler/vendor runs into challenges from time to time and there are no exceptions. How they handle it is what counts.
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Click to expand...
Totally agree with that... However one has to wonder how it escapes a final QA inspection. Hopefully it's just fell through the cracks and is not indicative of something more systemic.
 
Noobie,

You're very right. Sending me the ring in this state, is one thing I'll never get over. Dealing with internet vendors means you're getting things pretty much sight unseen; so, trust has to be first and foremost. If you can't depend on the so called "pros" to spot something like this...then who can you call on?

However, like I said before, I'm confident they'll fix, or replace it. Although, there are so many mistakes, I'm worried this process will take way too long to get the ring perfect. I just hope they don't have the nerve to ask me to pay for shipping it back.

Also, there's a part 2 to all this; I ordered a matching wedding band. The band was supposed come with the ring, but was also delayed. I'm getting it monday, but at this point...I'm not sure I want to.
 
I think if this ring where sold at a well known store, you all would be bashing the store to shreds. Why not in this case?...because this forum is biased and protects internet dealers. There's something wrong here.
nono.gif
 
Perhaps I don't read enough threads to presume that everyone would bash the B&M but whether this was a local B&M or an Inet vendor should make no difference. Nobody's being protected because if the vendor doesn't take care of the problem I'm sure shibbel will let people know who it was. As I stated earlier, it's how the vendor handles the situation.
 
Internet vendor or B&M...I believe you shouldn't "bash" either until you have taken it up with them first and tried to rectify the problem. No bias here -- I would treat them both the same.
 
I have been both loved and bashed, fortunately much more of the former than the latter. I agree with Rhino that it is how the occassional problem is handled that is most important.

I agree that the quality on that ring is far from desired and while not excusing it in any way I can tell you from experiance that there are times when you get so busy that things do not get properly checked.

I was out of the office a couple of Fridays ago, a ring came in for a local client and it was delivered by my assistant to the new owner who gave it to his wife. She noticed that in rushing to get the Thursday sale delivered on Friday that the center diamond got set on a tilt. New head and set cured the problem. Had I been there it would have been caught before delivery. Had I not pushed my benchman to set this and have it ready to go early in the day on Friday it would not have happened. Inexcusable, yes. Understandable, yes. My lovely and capable assistant is not a gemologist or a jeweler and the client was standing there when the job came out of the shop. In any case it is my responsibility and the job is already fixed and my client happy and with a $50 thank you gift certificate for his next purchase for his kindness and patience.

A possible scenario for what happened with the ring under discussion today is this. Ring is already late, it gets finished by some rookie benchman just before shipping time. Quality control either never sees the ring or gets to take only a quick glance with the eye before it is rushed into a box and shipped. Result, yech.

I am betting that it will be refunded or remade, that ring is probably not salvageable with the slop around the cathedral and should be remade or better yet a die struck casting ordered such as Roseco sells. If it is not then we will all expect full disclosure. In the meantime I am still applauding the gentleman for not damaging the reputation of the vendor until such time as it becomes obvious that the damage is warranted.

Wink
 
Shibbel, so sorry to hear about the problems. I would send it back for repairs as well. Voice, voice voice your concerns so it doesn't come back again a disappointment.
again-sorry
Nan
 
Wink.. I continue to read your excuses for poor workmanship and just DON'T buy them. Do you not have any quality control at you business? Poor quality and workmanship is a direct reflection of you, being the owner. You being out of town is the lamest excuse I've heard of. Whether this guy is spending $1k or $100k the job should be done right the first time. I guarantee for example if Donald trump came to you to buy that "rock" he purchased for his fiancee that this problem would not occur. You further go on to speak of rushing and being overly busy so that's why this could of happened, BULL! Once again no excuse, hire more people that know what they're doing to alleviate this kind of thing.
Would it not make sense to have a capable person to step in when you're out. I'm sure you are out sick or travel for business shows, what do you do then , close down your business. Finally Shibbel should absoluyely name the vendor where he made the purchase so that others can benefit from his terrible experiance. Go right ahead and bash him. Bash them all that don't do the job right and lie. That will straighten them all out. Buyers are at the mercy of some of these unscrupulous vendors that prey on us customes so let's give them something to think about so they get ir right the first time with no lies. ASAP!!!!

That just my 2 cents.
 
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